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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:36 pm
 


ryan29 ryan29:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
I dunno ryan. He's ordered decals for the election aircraft.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le1934202/

I'd say this parliament is done and there's gonna be a spring election.



it appears to be headed that way . i'd still think canadians deserve to see the budget at least before this happens and have election about serious issues like economy , or else where headed into a partisan hellish ride for the next month , during which acusations be extreme on each side . if the tories aren't allowed to deliver the budget i can only image what kind of attack ads against ignatieff will come out over this .



It's going to be nasty anyway. It will be the end for either Iggy or Steve this one. I'm not really sure which one it will be, maybe both.

If the Tories don't get a majority I think Stevie may have to deal a caucus mutiny and I think he will be deposed.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:47 pm
 


ryan29 ryan29:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
I dunno ryan. He's ordered decals for the election aircraft.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le1934202/

I'd say this parliament is done and there's gonna be a spring election.



it appears to be headed that way . i'd still think canadians deserve to see the budget at least before this happens and have election about serious issues like economy , or else where headed into a partisan hellish ride for the next month , during which acusations be extreme on each side . if the tories aren't allowed to deliver the budget i can only image what kind of attack ads against ignatieff will come out over this .


We've had an election on the economy. We haven't had an election on Steve's (lack of) ethics.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:54 pm
 


Just watched question period:

http://www.cpac.ca/clips/mp3/QP_mar8-11_eng.mp3

No doubt in my mind we are in for an election now.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:55 pm
 


hurley_108 hurley_108:
ryan29 ryan29:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
I dunno ryan. He's ordered decals for the election aircraft.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le1934202/

I'd say this parliament is done and there's gonna be a spring election.



it appears to be headed that way . i'd still think canadians deserve to see the budget at least before this happens and have election about serious issues like economy , or else where headed into a partisan hellish ride for the next month , during which acusations be extreme on each side . if the tories aren't allowed to deliver the budget i can only image what kind of attack ads against ignatieff will come out over this .


We've had an election on the economy. We haven't had an election on Steve's (lack of) ethics.


None of them have ethics hurley. They are all a bunch of wankers that would sell their souls at the drop of a hat.

All of 'em!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:01 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
hurley_108 hurley_108:
We've had an election on the economy. We haven't had an election on Steve's (lack of) ethics.


None of them have ethics hurley. They are all a bunch of wankers that would sell their souls at the drop of a hat.

All of 'em!


So you keep saying. The Harper Government, though, has accumulated quite the rap sheet of serious ethical lapses, starting from before they even were the Government.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:16 pm
 


No different to the previous regimes.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:21 pm
 


Regimes get more arrogant as they go along, and so need to be tossed out every so often. Unfortunately the Liberals don't seem ready for prime time, so the best outcome is another Reformacon minority. Maybe that will result in Harper's ouster, which would be nice. John Baird for PM I say.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:23 pm
 


I know I shouldn't judge a book by its cover, but John Baird just LOOKS stupid. At least with Harper you have to examine his CV to draw that conclusion. I'm with andy on this...let's keep the status quo. The Conservative government seems to be working fairly well and as long as it remains a minority, all the lefty "secret agenda" conspiracy nonesense is placated.


Last edited by Lemmy on Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:26 pm
 


Liberals set the stage to bring down the government

$1:
Chantal Hébert

OTTAWA

If the words of federal politicians have any meaning, the final act of the 40th Parliament is already underway.

On Tuesday the Liberals put forward a motion that could make it morally impossible for any opposition party to support the March 22 Conservative budget.

The motion does not deal with the economy, the deficit or any of the issues that routinely attend a budget. If anything, one of its political objectives is to reduce the upcoming budget debate to a sideshow, by pushing the issue of Conservative ethics to centre stage.

To achieve that, the motion focuses on the so-called “in-and-out” electoral financing scheme used by the Conservatives in the 2006 election to maximize their campaign spending.

On paper, it is an issue whose narrative thread may have been lost by many voters along the way. The battle between the ruling party and Elections Canada is already five years old. A few years ago, it featured an unprecedented police raid on Conservative headquarters. Now it is slowly unfolding before the courts. Recently, charges were laid against a handful of senior party officials, including two senators.

But the motion serves a larger purpose. It is designed to start driving a stake through the heart of the minority Parliament ahead of the budget.

The motion is not binding. It does not directly address the issue of the confidence of the House in the government. In theory, the fate of the minority Conservative government is not in the balance — or at least not immediately.

But in this instance the procedural mechanics may be less important than the positioning of the three opposition parties.

The motion uses very strong language, even by the standards set in Parliament over the past decade.

It describes the so-called in-and-out electoral financing scheme as an “act of electoral fraud.” It goes on to call it an “assault on the democratic principles upon which Parliament and the electoral system are based . . . .”

Over the past few weeks Michael Ignatieff, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe have all personally gone to the barricades over the Conservative election scheme. The NDP and the Bloc Québécois both support the Liberal motion.

It comes at a time when the minority government is embroiled in other controversies involving its ethics, its accountability and its respect for Parliament.

But if the opposition parties really do subscribe to the stark sentiments expressed in this week’s Liberal motion, it will be hard for any of them to justify continuing to do business with the government at the time of the budget.

In a minority Parliament, the opposition can blame the government for many things but not for its own self-inflicted impotence.

Ignatieff, Layton and Duceppe could hardly take the Conservatives to task for alleged abuses of the democratic process in an election campaign 12 to 18 months from now without being asked why they turned out to be ready to overlook them this spring.

The latest Liberal manoeuvre stands to maximize the odds of a spring election. But it is also a belated admission that Ignatieff and his strategists no longer believe they can win a campaign on the economy alone.

If the Liberal opposition had its way the motion would pave the way to a plebiscite-style campaign on the character of Stephen Harper’s government instead.

If any of this sounds familiar, it is because the latest Liberal approach to winding down the minority Parliament is largely borrowed from the Conservative opposition playbook.

In the spring and fall of 2005, Harper argued that Paul Martin’s government was so tainted by the sponsorship scandal that it no longer deserved the confidence of the House on any policy matter. And that helped define the ballot question to the advantage of the Conservative party. Only a cynic would find solace in the notion that history is so quickly repeating itself.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:28 pm
 


I think Harper may just eke out a slim majority, unless they screw up the campaign again.

Iggy and the Libs have the most to lose on this one. I reckon the NDP may pick up a chunk of Lib votes.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:01 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
I think Harper may just eke out a slim majority, unless they screw up the campaign again.

Iggy and the Libs have the most to lose on this one. I reckon the NDP may pick up a chunk of Lib votes.


You can only lose what you have, you can't lose what you don't have. Iggy and Steve have leaderships. They can lose that. The Liberals have a leader that hasn't done much for them. Would losing him really be the party's loss? Only the future can say. Other than that, they don't have much. The NDP has a leader who's been efective for them, and the most number of seats they've had since Broadbent. The Bloc has their stranglehold on two thirds of Quebec.

The Tories have the most. They have pole position in the polls. They have the most seats. They have a leader who's been very successful for them. They have Government.

The party, by any objective measure, with the most to lose is the Conservatives. The likelihood of them suffering those losses is a very different matter.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:11 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
Get ready for a Lib-NDP coalition. For a bit anyway.


Good Lord I certainly hope you're wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:41 pm
 


hurley_108 hurley_108:
EyeBrock EyeBrock:
I think Harper may just eke out a slim majority, unless they screw up the campaign again.

Iggy and the Libs have the most to lose on this one. I reckon the NDP may pick up a chunk of Lib votes.


You can only lose what you have, you can't lose what you don't have. Iggy and Steve have leaderships. They can lose that. The Liberals have a leader that hasn't done much for them. Would losing him really be the party's loss? Only the future can say. Other than that, they don't have much. The NDP has a leader who's been efective for them, and the most number of seats they've had since Broadbent. The Bloc has their stranglehold on two thirds of Quebec.

The Tories have the most. They have pole position in the polls. They have the most seats. They have a leader who's been very successful for them. They have Government.

The party, by any objective measure, with the most to lose is the Conservatives. The likelihood of them suffering those losses is a very different matter.


You have a point but I think that the NDP will attract the far-left Liberals and further erode Liberal seats.

I can't see the Tories losing too many seats, I think like Lemmy and andy a sizeable majority of Canadians aren't listening to all the overblown 'scandals', despite much wailing and gnashing of teeth by the Libs/NDP in the House and even the recent ruling by the House Speaker re Oda won't gain much traction. The Tories didn't screw up too badly on the economy and that will work in their favour.

Sure the CBC and Star/Globe will rant for a week or so but who cares really?

Really, we have heard the 'scandal' word far too often since 2000. I don't bother anymore with the sensationalised media reports or the blustering of Iggy and Jack at QP.

I, like many of my friends, have grown tired of it all.

I rarely watch TV news anymore and even programs on politics which I used to enjoy (QP and the CBC NW shows) bore me shitless now.

This boredom will also aid Harper as the local donkey who is a Tory will get my vote as he is less shit than the Lib donkey appointed by the riding association in my neck of the woods.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:51 pm
 


Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca. Vancouver South. Burnaby-Douglas. Nunavut. Edmonton-Strathcona. Saskatoon-Rosetown-Biggar. Kenora. Kitchener-Waterloo. Kitchener-Center. Mississauga-Erindale. Brampton-Springdale. Oak Ridges-Markham. Brome-Missisquoi*. Ahuntsic*. Haute-etc*. Roberval-Lac-St-Jean. Charolette Town. Malpeque. Egmont. Saint John. St. John's South-Mt. Pearl*.

New Westminister-Coquitlam. Yukon. Edmonton-Sherwood Park. Elmwood-Transcona. Sault Ste. Marie. Guelph. Mississauga-South. Gatineau*. Jeanne-Le Ber*. Portneuf-Jacques-Cartier*. Beauport-Limoilou. Miramichi. Moncton-Riverview-Dieppe. West Nova. South Shore-St. Margaret's.

Some places, like York Center, almost made the second list, but not quite. These are the places I think of when I hear about elections -- I live in one of them, for the record, the singular orange speck in a blue sea.

Some of you are no doubt thinking "what is this." Others might be thinking "I see!" Most are most likely thinking "for fuck's sake Khar, shut the hell up for once and just tell us." I shall accede to your wishes!

The first list are those ridings which were 1000 votes or less from being another party. The second list is between 1 and 2 thousand. I know that this is not a great representation of how things are for "swing" ridings -- Yukon and Nunavut, for example, have a difference between 5-10% from first to second parties. But I was too lazy to go back and do all 300+ ridings again.

I would consider the next election a run between the Conservative minority and the Conservative minority. Those with *s next to them are a bit irrelevant for the time being, before I go further, as they would not go to the Conservatives should the prevailing party lose them. 7/17 of the first set and 7/12 for the second set. On the basis of what Eyebrock mentioned, that the NDP might siphon votes from the Liberals, the majority of the blue ridings up there would be safe -- most of the blue ridings are contested by Liberals. The rest of the blue ridings would likely become safer, with the potential exception of ones like Beauport-Limoilou which could fall to the Bloc in Quebec.

In other words, on that basis alone, where the Liberals are weakened by the NDP, we would see the Conservative position strengthen from the above -- the amount of current blue up there would likely shrink, and some of those names might turn a different colour. Given the Liberals have been tanking in the polls and the Conservatives rising in them, I don't think that the Liberals are doing all that great. Rumblings in the North about Conservative support since 2008 might also bring some of those swing ridings into the group, even if there are not many. In one case, the Conservatives are being run against by an Independent, and in another an Independent is being run against by the Bloc.

I'll stop colour coding now. This information from Canada Votes 2008 on the CBC (WARNING: CONTAINS FLASH).

Hurley is right. They do have the most to lose, but I think they also have a little way to go to gain in a lot in the form of a majority in the House of Commons. There's a lot of incentives for them to go again, especially since Harper currently has popularity which exceeds what Cretien (and many other PMs) had for a lot of his (and their) massive majorities.

However, I think more is going on. As much as the Liberals would wish otherwise, we're currently running an election based largely on the economy (and other factors) and, hence, largely on the budget. Even, as hurley mentions, if they do hold some amount of ethical high ground (which, to be honest, I'd have to stress I'm personally not so sure on as the Liberals have a few questionable bits as well), people will vote on other things rather than ethics. Like Lemmy and andy, I don't think the scandals are getting much attention.

With this decision, the Liberals also lose their "we're not going for an election" kind of tone which I didn't really believe (I think they all want an election save possibly Layton at the moment), and they also have taken some hits in the media lately for the massive truancy problems within the Liberal ranks, including the leader himself. Originally I was going to say that Harper was acting a bit Trudeau-esque in pulling his own downfall (like in 1974) but now it seems like the Liberals have dropped that pretense and are in full swing.

To be honest, I would prefer a Harper minority. I would also prefer the NDP became Her Majesty's official opposition. Harper and Ignatieff both need to be replaced. In fact, I think most of the parties need a shake up, with the exception of the Green (since there seems to be no other viable candidates than May, looking at current events in that regard). While the Liberals have had a recent leader change, they are having the same, if not worse, stagnation which we are seeing in other parties, and I think tolerance of that stagnation is not helping any party at the moment. If there's one good thing, it's that at least one party is going to have to change in the upcoming elections.

I don't want a majority since I prefer the limits that the opposition provides. I do find the assertions that Harper is going to destroy Canada a little funny still (if he's doing it he's taking his time) and it does keep them accountable, even if the other parties prefer to scream about dictatorships in public and then deal with that same "dictatorship" in private.

The reason I want the Liberals in third party status is because they simply do not have the same cohesion and message they used to. I don't know what they stand for, and you can't run an election on the premise that you stand for little other than "taking down Harper." The electorate wants something from the Liberals, and other than promises from his tour and such, we haven't seen a ton on the topic from Ignatieff, and a lot of his messages seemed to go the same spots -- some place Harper has just been, or to places the Liberals are typically strong, Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver (plus their surrounding areas).

They also don't have a Pearson, a Laurier, or even a Trudeau worth mentioning, and a lot of the party members I like have no interest in heading the party anymore. Most of the strong personalities are gone. The Liberals need time to rebuild, and being the official opposition has not afforded them the opportunity. They also need time to build a reputation and a strong stance on an issue which they stick with for a while, much like the NDP does... even if Layton has done some questionable things as well, he has a strong stance for many issues. Ignatieff, on the other hand, has not been good for his party. He's a smart guy, don't get me wrong -- but he doesn't translate well onto the political scene, and he has made a lot of unnecessary gaffs in his time as the leader of the Liberals. I don't think he's really gained the trust of the Liberal voters, like a lot of party figures do by working through the ranks.

I don't know who I will vote for next election, nor will I until I am in the voting booth. I don't think this riding will remain NDP as it is, even with the massive student vote, because I think the Conservatives are making a strong comeback in the area and their popularity has grown quite a bit. Overall, I don't really have a strong stance on much.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:16 pm
 


EyeBrock EyeBrock:
I think Harper may just eke out a slim majority, unless they screw up the campaign again.

Iggy and the Libs have the most to lose on this one. I reckon the NDP may pick up a chunk of Lib votes.


I don't know about that. The Globe and Mail had a great series a few weeks back on seats at risk for each party, and with all the current issues facing the Conservatives, I don't think they are in majority territory yet.

I think it's going to pretty much be the status quo, or maybe even the Libs gaining a few seats (mostly at the expense of the NDP). The Bloc will crush everyone in Quebec and Harper's current 10 seats will probably be reduced to a handful


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