[Lawndart]

I am a Quebec Separatist. Some may think that odd, because I'm an Anglo-Ontarian. But I sympathise with the Pequistes. I've felt this way a long time.

In fact, when Lucien Bochard was hospitalized with flesh-eating disease, I sent him a get well card. Not because I admire the man (to be honest I think when one looks at the way he stabbed Mulroney in the back, I think he is completely devoid of honour or intergrity) but because, ultimately, he and I have the same goal. Let's have Canada and Quebec move on with their respective destinys.

I didn't always feel this way. When I was a teenager and subject to Canadian Propaganda in our socialist school system growing up in Toronto, I too believed that "My Canada Includes Quebec." Not anymore though.

Let's be honest. Canadians and Quebecers have virtually nothing in common. We don't speak the same language, enjoy the same entertainment, agree on the same history, or vacation in one another's provinces. In fact, the only things we seem to agree on, are that we don't want to be American, but we love to vacation in Florida.

The fact is that Quebec has been nothing but a drain on Canada since confederation. Financially it is a sinkhole that sucks money from the productive provinces of Ontario and Alberta. Quebec-centric politicians like Chretien, Mulroney, Trudeau etc. have used confederation as an excuse to grease their friend's and constituents palms with hard earned tax dollars from west of the Ottawa river ever since St Laurent ruled was PM in this country.

I for one, am sick to death of working night and day to send cash to Montreal ad agencies, losers like Mirabel airport, the Big Owe, official bilingual projects, etc. This is to say nothing of the favouritism shown not to bilingual applicants, but to FRANCOPHONE applicants, in the hiring for Federal Government jobs. Regardless of language skills, see how far you get in the Federal civil service nowadays without a name like Pelletier, Gagnon or Leduc. Let's also throw in a Quebec-centric military, a Quebec centred, pacifist foreign policy, a Federal Government that lets Quebecers do whatever they want when it comes to the delivery of Health Care in that province while punishing Alberta and BC for trying the exact same things. Oh, how about the the truly Canadian logic of subsidizing winners like Bombardier and Canadair so they can sell a 10 dollar product for 8 dollars a pop? For this massive investment, all the rest of Canada gets is perennial whinging from a group of people who live under the illusion that they're getting screwed by Confederation.

If that sounds harsh, sorry. Reality bites. I'm not without sympathy for Quebecers. I realise they are distinct group of people, who through the fortunes of history, ended up being conquered and that probably sticks in their collective craw a bit. Fair enough. I also recognise that, unlike English speaking Canadians, they have a strong sense of identity founded on something stronger than Anti-Americanism, hockey, and back-bacon sandwiches (did I say back bacon, sorry. I apologise to my multi-cultural Canadian bretheren. I realise that to Muslim Canadians bacon is offensive. I'll try to be respect diversity a little more in the future).

So to 747, and the "lalibertaire" bunch, I say "Bon Chance." You and I have the exact same goal mon ami. The separation process will be hard, but through negotiation I'm sure both sides will come away with something acceptable. Remember one thing though, my Pequiste friends. When that day comes, you will no longer be dealing with a Mr Chretien, or Mulroney, or Trudeau. You will be dealing with a Steven Harper or Preson Manning, backed by a regiment of cold hearted, steely-eyed, Bay Street lawyers.

I'll be cheering you on in '08. Hope we can encourage someone in Brockville to burn a Fluer de Lis in the run up to the vote.

[Optinum]

i think there is a wave of quebecer separatism on this forum!
that only prove that the quebec separation its not dead and more alive than in the years 1995.

[Canadaka]

I just don't get sepertists...

Canada is and should be a becon to the world. If we Canadians english and french can't get along what hope is there for the world?

i think this is old rivalrys, let it die, today is not 200 years ago. in our world people and nations are and should be comming closer not seperating. sure there are problems, but in the end its positive.

I find it a disgrace to Canada.

[LysPatriote]

Wow , I can not agree more whit you Lawndart, (except some part about Bonbardier, will talk about than another time if you whant)
Your statement is very logic and clear, from my point of view you have a very good understading of canadian politic.

im gone post your topic on La Libération forum, im sure where gone tack about it whit pleasure. Thank you.


About, if séparatist are stonger now thant back in 95, the main difference is than for now we have a federaliste gouverment at québec (Jean Charest Liberal parti PLQ) and it considere to be the worst gouvement of history. so the PQ in 2 years look pretty easy. The sponsorship scandal did not help de federal, and last week Québec Minister of finance lost is job cose he was to nationalis, now he tinks about tansfering in the Parti Québécois. (he is the 2nd most popular member of PLQ afer Philippe Couillard at heal minister way more popular than Jean Charest himself)

another point, if there a referendum in 2008 or 2009 we will have 1 500 000 new voters than coud not vote in 1995(yong voter are more independantis than old). and we can assume thant 500 000 old federaliste will be dead sins then, and when you tink tant we lost the last referndum by 33 000 votes (49,7%yes to 50,3%non) I can say than thing are looking good.

[Canadaka]

I welcome you to have an open debate about this topic, i just don't want it turning into a flaming war, we have enough of those with US topics.

I would like to hear in some seperatists words why they want Quesbec to seperate.

And do you REALLY think if you did actually win another referendum, if another were to happen, that you would seperate Canada? i dont think its that easy.

All it might do is give the province some more leverage in ottawa, but that just makes me mad, Quebec already has so many special cases.

It is my opinion that Quebec will never seperate, but there will always be seperatist, for a long time to come.

[Optinum]

some are separatist without argument or reason
some are separatist because the federalism from otawa are doing this and that.
some are separatist because fo conviction for them self.
some are separatist because of the constitutionnal prob leme
some are separatist because they love thier mother land.

im a separatiste because its a way so get out from the statut quo, because im more proud to be a quebecois than a canadians
andn i want the voice of my vote reflex in the onu.

but a "separatist" its the most a "sovrenist"


"It is my opinion that Quebec will never seperate, but there will always be seperatist, for a long time to come."
so that not the way that we want to think because we want only to win

[LysPatriote]

To Canadaka, no we dont think that Canada will let us separate so easly, Trudeau show us in 1970 that Canada wont esitate to send us the army to intimite us, they put 550 persons in prison for no reason just becose there where separatiste.(if the october crises was right now, i be in jail )

What will be the situation after a YES from Québec is a big no-man-land. We know that it wont be easy. but something is for sure, we have to win by by a democratical way. After that is the international law who will assure our soverainete, If Canada want to go againt ONU and the contry that want to reconize us (like France) it will be a mess. The futur will tell us.

[Newfie Scott]

$1:

To Canadaka, no we dont think that Canada will let us separate so easly, Trudeau show us in 1970 that Canada wont esitate to send us the army to intimite us, they put 550 persons in prison for no reason just becose there where separatiste.(if the october crises was right now, i be in jail )

Mind you that the only reason why the army was deployed inside Québec in October 1970 is because it was requested by the government of that province. Furthermore, considering that the most publicly well known separatists of that era (the FLQ) had murdered a government minister after kidnapping him and had kidnapped the representative of a foreign nation (James Cross), I think that the Québec government were quite correct to fear for their safety.

Also the FLQ was a terrorist organization (there's no "one's terrorist is another's freedom fighter in this case). They bombed innocent people's mailboxes instead of working in a proper and decent way to try to achieve their goal. They killed innocent people - the FLQ didn't target government buildings, they targetted Anglophones who committed no crime against Québec.

Personally I have no sympathy for anyone who was considered by the Montréal police to have FLQ ties.

And just to provide more clarification - it was the QUEBEC GOVERNMENT which arrested those people, not the federal government. The October Crisis of 1970 may have resulted in the Federal government deploying the army and revoking the rights of ALL Canadians (not just Québecois), but it was the Québec government which did the dirty work against the separatists, and they were quite right to be concerned about anyone with FLQ links given that organization's murderous actions.

So to summarize, Trudeau did not send in the Canadian army to take care of the Separatits. He sent in the Army because the Québec government convinced him that the situation was serious enough to warrant extreme measures. After all, a terrorist organization that has killed innocents for "political" purposes as well as a government minister, and kidnapped a diplomat from another nation is enough to drive any government into fear and take desperate measures. It was really pure coincidence that the FLQ's agenda was separatism related - if the FLQ had to be associated with Labour Unions (for an example), it would still have gotten the same response from the Québec government regardless.


On the issue of how easily Québec could leave Canada...well your province signed the British North America Act of 1867 and that doesn't allow any province to leave Canada if memory serves. As such, Québec can't legally leave Canada under that Act. Of course, the courts rule with the times on such things so I imagine it wouldn't be a valid barrier to Québec leaving Canada.

Mind you, if you did win a referendum to separate, I would hope that the federal government sends in the Canadian Forces to destroy every bit of federal Canadian infrastructure in your province just so you don't need to worry about Canadian influences anymore.

[LysPatriote]

Your right about almost everything, that true that is Robert Bourassa (PLQ leader) Who ask for help. (to us Bourassa is a woussy a anti-leader who cannot take a décision, pretty much like Québecers of is time).

You said the FLQ kill inocent people, first they kill one Person (Pierre Laporte) but we cannot say that he is a innocent, he backstab Rene Lévesque, he was a minister in a gouverment who was lead by english-bizness man agaist Québecer, he was Also mafia related, and he was no anglophone. Im not defendin FLQ what they did was in-human and unacceptable.


Canadaka, was asking the question why we want to seperate it will be long to give you all the respond, but we have a short movie online call ''le temps des bouffons'' that explain very well the question. It's a 15 minutes documentary about the 200 aniversary of Montréal Beaver Club, The movie is made By Pierre Falardeau, who also did a very god movie about the October Crises (OCTOBRE) Maybe you know him for Elvis Gratton movie. Anyway the movie is in french but we thing that just whit image you will understand. I think than ther one version that exist whit subtitle, I will try to find it for you.

le temps des bouffons http://forums.laliberation.org/viewtopic.php?t=196


If you want to know more, the journalist Normand Lesther (formely from french-CBC) as rote a excellant book on the subjet, ther a english verion, the book is call ''the black book of english Canada'' there 3 volumes but im not sure that all 3 books have bean translated. CBC kick out Lester after volume 1, they say that Lester wont be objectif in is worck cause peaple now know that he is a separatist, but is job was to cover international conflict, go figure. I hope that respond to some of your questions

[LysPatriote]

It's a very good question,

''Les X'' : fan of trash radio, right wing pro-american, concervative locate in the national capital, city of Québec, they are anti-union, a bit racist, close mindend they look like they hate everything about Québec and Québécers . ther Guru is Jeff Filion (Some kind of Howard Stern but with a bigger influence on a local population). The radio station have bein bend by the CRTC but they did a big popular manifestation of 50 000 persons on the strets of Québec to save the station (Québec city population 500 000) they have 300 000 listeners. Its Big. The right wing parti in Québec ADQ as joint Radio X in ther fight agaist that Fédéral organisation, so as a tank you, Radio X and Jeff Fillion push for the élection of a ADQ candidate in a partial election. ADQ won that élection and now they are i think 3 or 4 deputes.

But what you have to understant that is a local thing, because on the same day there was 3 other élections, PQ won 2,(center montréal) PLQ 1(montréal west-Iland) and ADQ finist at lest 3rd and one time 4th afer left wing parti UFP.

Ther a theory to explain ''les X'' in the city of Québec almost éverybody is White, french speacking, Catholic, roots from Québec . everybody is the same in a certain way, so it easy to find something to laugh about, everything that it not ordinary freach-canadien looser shit. If ther was more imigrant of diférent culture who can go open the mind of this one color city.

In 1995 Parizeau blaime are lost on Money and etcnic votes, But in fact the city of Québec is as responsable for are lost (Québec city in 1995: 55% yes , its the capital it shud have at lest 70%, like in my city it was 77%yes)

In Québec city a lot of Québécois work for the provincial gouverment, and in 95 Parizeau said that every Québécers who work for the federal will have a job for Québec, So Québec worker have fear to loose ther job, so they vote No. bunch of woussys

When Don Cherry say that we are woussy, i dont feel he talk to separatis, i tink of the french-canadien of Québec City

[Canadaka]

$1:

im a separatiste because its a way so get out from the statut quo, because im more proud to be a quebecois than a canadians

i dont get this! I live in BC, I think BC is the best province in Canada, i love it. I am proud to live in BC. But that doens't mean im not Canadian and proud to belong to something larger. Every province has there problems that one could say are reasons to seperate and go it alone. ever heard of western alienation? But no you don't see sepertists in BC.

[LysPatriote]

i did not say that he is boring, i hear plany hours of is show''le monde parallèle de Jeff Filion'' i know that he sometime brig some good point , and also know that not all ther lisners think the same way than Fillion. I have to say that the music a CHOI Radio X is very good.

We where impresse to see all this people in the streets, You tell me that there was many visible minority in the streets? A did not saw that on TV, but im gonna belive you (You was there) From what i understant redding your commets i see why you love that station, your a X yourself. I respect that.

What we are trying to do at La Liberation is to not take a strong position in the debate Right/left i really do understat bouth camp (the PQ shud not take position to) We are gonna debat that afer the big Win.

That why québec politic gone bad, the teams are not make for good reason.

UFP: left, pro-union close to socialis , separatist(but not a priority)

PQ : suppose to be center-left separatis (Number 1 in ther priority)

PLQ : center-right Fédéralist ( but ther some left and right wing member but all federalist)

ADQ; Right, friend whit les X and concervativ fédéral parti, nationalist, Adq was in the Yes camp in 1995, (nationalist but ther are not clear about the contitutional question, the last thing the bring is ''L'Autonomisme'' A separate Quebec inside Canada, i dont realy get it

[figfarmer]

but The Pequis are a proud First Peoples nation and not a bunch of Frenchies who want to get killed trying to tear off a bit of Canada.