[Pimpbrewski]

To answer your question from earlier Cmmd1.

Let me see.... to name a few events throughout Canada:

Manitoba holds the New Canadian Folksong and Handicraft Festival. Craft techniques from Eastern Europe are on display. The Europeans had brought a great array of skills, folklore and culture that all Canadians could share.

Winnipeg's Folklorama, a popular two-week festival that draws crowds of half a million, and which has become a yearly tradition for many. With Japanese, Croatian, and nearly 50 other pavilions, this celebration keeps growing with the country.

Ontario's Stratford Festival of Canada is a world-class theatre festival that features the best Canadian and international talent and regularly plays to sold-out crowds.


And in Quebec, there is Québec City's Winter Carnival which celebrates a defining north-eastern experience: winter. With a world-famous ice hotel, snow baths, night parades, dogsled and sleigh rides and snow sculptures

Also the Francopholie or something like that festival.

So I can't run through all the events there are since it would fill this page completely. So here it is.

[Pimpbrewski]

Cmmd1 Cmmd1:

I want to know why Quebec ( For canadian ) is in their Culture. And why Quebec-canadians say that they are canadian. Look A English-canadians, probably dont know Sans-Pression, Muzion, Lynda Lemay. And i Dont know yours too !!!! So why stay united ? If im ready to pay 1200 more per year !

You are willing to pay thousands more a year in taxes so you can say that you have your own distinctive culture and society. I cannot believe what I am hearing. I, I, I, ...am speechless.

My goodness, please help me out here people. Am I the only that thinks this is COMPLETE NONSENSE ??????

[Sharkull]

Cmmd1 Cmmd1:

Sharkull Tell me how much Canada give cash ( Free cash, that we are not suppose to have ) ? My guest ( and i saw a board on the gouvernement of canada ) It's maximum 1.5 or .175 Billions. If 40% of Quebec people impot, that mean like 3millions pay impot, so 1.75Billions "diviser" by 3millions it's like 500$ or 600$ more per year, maybe less, because of the TPS and TVQ will be just one tax and goes to Quebec. And Hydro-Quebec are to Quebec. And for the debt, if we pay 500% more it's ok. So if we are, For pay 1200$ more per year ( in average, rich pay more, poor less ) What will be wrong?

I previously posted to link which indicated that Quebec gets around $3-4 Billion in cash equalization payments...
http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/ec ... mpact.html

This does not include other transfers specifically for Health Care, the cost of federal government services (federal justice system, armed forces, postal system, HRDC, BDC, Canada Customs and Revenue Agency...) and interest payments on the debt. These things are paid for mainly by Ontario and Alberta (who provide Ottawa with vastly more revenue than they get back in any way). Yes, this includes paying Quebec's share, and no, I don't have numbers (I can't find any). How much of Quebec's share is being paid by others is unknown, but it is not nothing, that is for sure.

The fiscal imbalance is basically the argument that the federal government holds on to too much money for unneeded federal services (beyond federal constitutional jurisdiction) while provinces are fighting with debt. On this point, all provinces agree. They all want more money. It has nothing to do with paying more than you get back... only Ontario and Alberta can validly make this argument. It's all about federal politicians (Liberals) holding on to money that should be going to provinces... but the feds want to take credit for "fixing" something, so they attach political strings to every penny they give. Have you noticed the Liberal spending spree recently (a blatant attempt to buy votes)? That is the fiscal imbalance in action.

Cmmd1 Cmmd1:

And we will be a very passif people, no one here will accept a war. So i dont see the fuck with USA. And stop sous-estimated our Province, All Canadians say that we are nothing and deserve nothing. We are not better and not worse then you !

When did I say these things? A quote please.

[Sharkull]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

The fact is that Frist Nations land is not under Quebec control. The Cree have treaties with Canada not Quebec. Quebec, if it separates, will not maintain its territorial integrity if the Cree and Inuit opt out.

Well... that's getting closer to the point, but opting out is not a simple matter. Especially considering that Canada would never just accept a Native land claim because it would set a precedent that could eat up half (?) of Canada!

[Sharkull]

Cmmd1 Cmmd1:

The deficit fiscal is : Ok i will make a simple explaination

Quebec give in taxe and impot, cash to Federal > In return federal is suppose to take all of the money of canadian, and redistribute equaly. But in the system now, Ontario and Quebec declare that the federals did not give all the cash. 2.2billions less in Ontario and 1.6 less in quebec. That is the deficits fiscal.

No it isn't. Read my post of about 15 minutes ago.

[Cmmd1]

Ok sorry, sharkull. But how much Quebec give in total to canada, and how much we receive ?

[Cmmd1]

I understand more now, but if you find how much Quebec give, tell me.

But If quebec leave Canada ( fallowing your argue ) All the province will get more cash? Alberta and Ontario will have more too. So why Federal want to keep us so badly? That is bizarre no ?

[Zipperfish]

A Royal Commission from 1995 said that Canada should do "whatever measures it deems necessary" to protect aboriginal and treaty rights. If those rigths were not recognized by Quebec, Quebec would have a hard time being recognized by Canada and by other nations. Given the way the Quebec government has treated the Cree over the years (James Bay).

The PQ (Parizeau) is on record as saying that it would not recognize an aboriginal referendum to secede from Quebec (which is odd, considering that they expect us to accept a referendum to seced from Canada).

As far as the federal government is concerned there is more concerned than just land claims -- fiduciary responsibility and human rights also mus be considered.

These problems may not be insurmountable, but they are not even being addressed by the PQ or the BQ. It seems tome that this is a significant issue that should be sorted out prior to any referendum.

[Cmmd1]

Yeah.... but many quebecers here want to have a Image all around the world.... Go to olympics, have our Quebercers hockey league, modernize our place. As long, as we are with the federal, we will be stock on Quebec-Canada situation here. The oooonly way is a Clear win ( 66.6% and more ) of the No in a referendum, and that will never happen i think. So we are stock in that, maybe not in the rest of canada but here yes.

[Cmmd1]

And im For a Clear win for Yes too, I want a referendum with 66.6%, not 50+1% If it 55% 45% we redo it 6 mouth after. or less or more.

[Cmmd1]

lol Im not sure that we will turn like Frenchie, we are laughing at them. They say : Ouais, moi je vais faire du footing. lol In english, it's Yeah i will do some jogging, not footing, they created word. And Drug store. If we are a country, the immigrant will know french, and i dont think that we will lost french, the federalist here ( Liberals Party ) Put english at 6-7yr old at school.... That is dangerous.. And why english school here dont have obligated french... If i could talk to a english in french, and he repond in english, i will be happy ! And we will be the biggest french country, the french country of America. We have more chance to preserve it. And french quebecers here ( even federalist ) dont like ( i think ) to talk in english, we have a fuckin accent !! lol That suck, and "Quebecois" is cool to talk. I lovvvvve our F*** word ( Tabarnak, colisse, batard ) we can make good joke ( Listen to Francois pérusse ) with "jeux de mots", and make great song too ! In France, Quebecers are fffffucking popular, Here Camaro and Corneil was Nothing ( they suck too lol ) but in France, they are king. The only thing that France's critics hate from Quebec is Cirque du Soleil. I think that we will make just more movie and song and book. But it's my side !

[Jaime_Souviens]

Cmmd1's strong suit seems to be the cultural arguments, but that's shifting sand to build upon.

French language writers and comedians? French language TV? Québec in the Olympics? That's the argument for separation?

I have to say, I don't get it. With technology, cultural differences around the world will, must, diminish. We're all going to have to adapt. It won't be long before we're all driving Chinese cars.

But then there's the separatists pushing back the clock to a time that never was.

Even the First Nations / Native Americans realize that they're not going to go back to hunting buffalo.

And is Québécois culture being stifled in Canada? ---Maybe at one time, it was, but I don't think people are being stifled in their personal expression today.

Another point :
Creating a separate Québec, in economic terms, is like jumping off a cliff. Maybe things will work out fine, but the numbers all indicate the opposite. I don't see how separation creates long term growth. I think it means a lot of Québécois will end up in Houston, Atlanta, and San Diego. ---How many hundreds of thousands have left Montréal since the 1980's?

Even if the main concern IS culture, you can't have a thriving culture without a way to pay for it. Like I said elsewhere, you can't eat Celine Dion CD's.

A third point, (one that I've raised a couple of times and that no one
seems to care about, but I'll raise again anyway),
The people of Québec have not been shackled in their homes the past 138 years, they have been an active part of Canada. ---Whatever Canada is, the people of Québec have been a part of making it so.

So what do you do with 138 years of French Canadians working to
make Canada, Canada? Throw that away? Walk away from it? Say it was all just some deluded dream? ---That's what I really don't get.

It was all just a mistake?


* * *

Go ahead & do it. But I don't think you end up with a French-language Sweden, I think you end up with a cold, grey Venezuela.




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