[Psudo]

If I understand Ombrageux correctly, he considers the strict party loyalty PAN9 criticizes as a boon to democracy; people vote for the party leader and, by virtue of his being the party leader, he has the power to actually fulfill his promises. Thus, the people directly choose a powerful government, capable of accomplishing what it promises.

An exaggeration of the idea would be a democratic tyranny: the guy elected by the public has absolute power until his time runs out and he's replaced. That way, the promises people vote for have the best chance of being fulfilled.

[Ombrageux]

You are correct in theory. In practice, institutional safeguards ("checks and balances") play little role in democratization and "becoming a dictatorship". The UK has this system for a good 300 years and had always been the only legal-electoral regime in Europe (and later its most stable democracy). The US, on the other hand, has always paid lip service to limited government and against "the tyranny of the majority," while this never preventing either the total emasculation of minority rights or letting the state's totalitarian control creep into people's bedroom practices. Americans have neither the benefits of these alleged "safeguards," nor those of having a regime capable of electoral reforms.

Currently American "democracy" consists in babbling incoherence. There is virtually no relationship between wishes expressed or promised during the campaign and the actual ability of elected officials (and especially the President) to deliver.

[ASLplease]

If Ignatief was drunk, I think we would see his true colors.

I think he would suggest that the Liberals rename the carbon tax to an 'oxygen tax' because, as we all know, every CO2 molecule has 2 oxygen atoms, and only 1 carbon atom.

Furthermore, the Liberal's ad slogan could match their true nature: " If it breathes, its taxable"

[andyt]

I agree, and I agree with Iggy - those are good ideas. Why should humans be the only ones to pay taxes? Certainly animals should too. I guess plants get an exemption, since they produce more O2 than they consume. But I say we go after the fungi - nobody likes them anyway, and they think they're so clever pretending to be plants and all. But what about that green sea slug they've just found that has incorporated algal DNA and is able to photosynthesize? Where does Iggy stand on that, I want to know?

[ShepherdsDog]

There has been a fair bit of controversy in the news lately about the consumption and sale of unpasteurized milk. Personally, I've consumed both and have to agree with the proponents of 'raw'(I prefer the terms natural or organic) milk consumption. You can't beat the flavour. As for the other health benefits touted by them, I'd have to agree that it is nutritionally healthier as well.

The government allows the sale of tobacco, proven to cause cancer and other diseases and with absolutely no health benefits. Yet bans the sale of unpasteurized milk. Why aren't people given the chance to choose between the two?

Some of the opponents of allowing the sale of unpasteurized milk have likened it to the return of a dark age mentality. I know histrionics. But if any of you know any dairy producers, ask how many of them drink real milk from their cows or the cooked stuff from the grocery store.

I'm betting, that most posters' parents who lived in rural areas grew up on real milk, and like news articles have been saying, most of Europe and half of all American states allow the sale of natural 'organic' dairy products.

All of this being said, I have to admit that the milk in our fridge is pasteurized milk from Costco, or Carrefour. The standards of cleanliness that I find in Canadian farms and their products, just doesn't occur here. Hell, they sell meat here that has died of natural causes(disease and old age), which is why we buy meat from the big grocercy chains.

So vote and give an opinion. Political hacks need not annoy others with any partisan bullshit...even though this is a bovine related topic.

[Yogi]

Like anything that the govt doesn't 'approve of', it too is readily available. You just have to know where to look for it!

[Lemmy]

Funny you should mention, there was a precedent-setting ruling this week in Ontario on this very issue.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/dairy-farmer-wins-battle-over-raw-milk/article1439008/

[ShepherdsDog]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Funny you should mention, there was a precedent-setting ruling this week in Ontario on this very issue.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/dairy-farmer-wins-battle-over-raw-milk/article1439008/

I was reading about it on line and watched a few news clips. That's what got me thinking. Whenever I have an upset stomach I always drink a live culture yoghurt and it works very well.

[PimpBrewski123]

Nice topic Shep,

Sure have said this before, would be cool to see ''natural'' milk. Pasturized dairy is ok, but sure would be nice to see any other milk products.

Quebec has adopted a ''Quota'' system which completety off base. Those mo-fos control everything in the province. Sure, quality is good but they hike prices at will, even dumping thousands of gallons in the drains. All that to keep the agriculture giants happy, all a game to them. So, keep it and have it natural, the best way to go is to have it natural.

[Robair]

Grandpa always had a milk cow while we were growing up. Milk was good, homemade ice cream was GREAT.

We all did just fine on the stuff. I guess the difference was he wasn't selling it...

Didn't vote, there isn't a topic that says has done it, would do it again.

[ShepherdsDog]

The first one states that you have in the past, you are right now and you likely will in the forseeable future. And just because you're special I changed the second choice.

[Robair]

But I'm not right now. I'm drinking beer.

Wouldn't know where to find some around here to tell you the truth. And grandpa retired a loong time ago. Nobody else would bother to keep a milk cow around there. Too much work.

[Robair]

(okay I voted #2)

[ShepherdsDog]

Would you drink unpasteurized beer?

[Brenda]

I never have drunk unpasteurized milk (I think, unless my mom used to give it to us, but then I forgot), but I have eaten unpasteurized cheese. Does that count? I just don't like milk

In addition, I thought the consumption or sale of unpasteurized milk would be illegal in Holland (hell, almost everything that does not have a way to mess with your brain is illegal ), but the consuption and sale are both legal. Still, the farmers that sell it, are required to put up a sign that says: "Cook the raw milk before consumption". The reason it is legal in The Netherlands is that all cows are TBC free. The authorities consider cumsupmtion "not wise", because of the salmonella risk.

Every pregnant woman is told that raw milk and cheese made of raw milk (like Brie) are not for consumption during pregnancy, because your child can get seriously ill or damaged (is that an appropriate word here?) when you do. The Listeria bacteria is the dangerous one...