[ryan29]

has anyone else noticed that lately it seems that the ontatio liberal government is against absolutely everything that the federal conservative government has done or is doing .
could this be a coincidence or are the ontario liberals doing this intentionally for there own political benefit?
in ontario there has in the past been a sort of balance theory where if the federal government is say liberal then generally the provincial one is conservative . you get the idea, it seems to me they might be trying to take advatage of this theroy and try to give voters a reason as to why they need the ontario liberals.

some examples
- native land claims , continuously blaming ottawa for the mess

- sent an open letter on gun control sent to the PM and some mpp's called for hand gun ban

- complaints about new future electoral boundaries which will give ontario new seats in the future

- being against the new child care plan

- were not in favour of senate reform

there are many other examples but i can't list them all


can all this complaining and bickering with ottawa really be about the " issues " or are the provincial liberals just doing this for there own political benefit? there is a provincial election taking place this fall.

[Bodah]

In the realm of politics its always easier to blame someone else, than for them to take responsibility themselves that way they dont have to do anything and more importantly stick their necks out if things don't go the way they planned it to.

MGuinty epitomizes this.

[ryan29]

Bodah Bodah:

In the realm of politics its always easier to blame someone else, than for them to take responsibility themselves that way they dont have to do anything and more importantly stick their necks out if things don't go the way they planned it to.

MGuinty epitomizes this.

he definity doesn't want to except responosibiltiy for much if anything.

i strongly suspect his party was realising they were going to have a very difficult time come election time explaining there record to voters.
a record of broken promises and scandals like the caledonia native dispute.
so they have now deciced to take responsibilty for nothing and blame everything on the federal government. just watch one of there cabinent minister speak on tv , it seems like everything is ottawas fault , according to them.
some liberal strategist must of dreamed this up for sure.

[Patrick_Ross]

The interesting thing to me is that Dalton McGuinty really is the poster boy for Liberal party environmental policy.

Dalton McGuinty today announced he struck a deal with Arnold Schwarzenegger that would make Ontario and California partners in some Climate Change initiatives.

But, if he had shut down the provinces Coal-fired power plants, like he promised to do, Ontario would be 70% closer to its Kyoto targets.

Are you listening, David?

[ryan29]

Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross:

The interesting thing to me is that Dalton McGuinty really is the poster boy for Liberal party environmental policy.

Dalton McGuinty today announced he struck a deal with Arnold Schwarzenegger that would make Ontario and California partners in some Climate Change initiatives.

But, if he had shut down the provinces Coal-fired power plants, like he promised to do, Ontario would be 70% closer to its Kyoto targets.

Are you listening, David?

the provincial liberals promised so many things in the last elcetion campaign its no surprise many promises weren't kept. obviously this is why they are blaming ottawa for everything.

not sure when they actually plan to close the remaining coal plants , likely some time after the next election . so they can claim to be closing them but in reality they are still running and producing harmful emissions.

[ryan29]

another question which should be asked ,
is all this disagrement with ottawa accompolishing anything for the province of ontario ?

i'm guessing ontario's likely not gaining much , but i could be wrong and maybe i'm just not seeing the benefits of this bickering and complaining.

[ryan29]

Ont. parties in a 'dog fight' for support, poll reveals

just found this poll onlne maybe it is important to include in this discussion
Published: Monday, May 28, 2007 Article tools
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Font: * * * * TORONTO - Ontario’s Oct. 10 provincial election is up for grabs with a minority government a distinct possibility, according to a new poll for CanWest News Service that describes a “fickle” electorate.

The latest Ipsos Reid survey shows the Liberals with 41 per cent support among respondents, the Conservatives with 37 per cent support, the NDP with 15 and the Green party with six per cent.

“This isn’t going to be a summer for barbecues,” pollster John Wright said in an interview. “This is a summer for planning to go to battle. It’s a summer for getting the troops and the messages prepared and for test driving them. Right now the numbers say that all three parties can work to change their positioning. It’s going to be exciting politics. It’s going to be a dog fight.”

Typically, Ontario majority governments have popular support in the 43 per cent to 45 per cent range, Wright said, noting the latest poll results suggest Ontario “could be in minority government territory.”

The government of Liberal Premier Dalton McGuinty has been under fire during the current session of the legislature on issues ranging from the disproportionate number of provincial lottery wins by ticket retailers to suggestions that partisan politics influenced the distribution of year-end capital grants to ethnic community groups.

Last week the premier was under fire for his use of government airplanes for short trips to Hamilton and other nearby destinations.

“It would seem like in the last six months, the government has been drifting a bit,” Wright said. “It just hasn’t been handling things as well as in the previous three years. Their message seems weak.”

The popular vote numbers, which suggest a dead heat between the Liberals and Conservatives once the margin of error is taken into account, is just one of the government’s headaches, he added.

Compounding its troubles are new polling data that show the Conservatives have some momentum - more Ontarians (35 per cent) chose Conservative Leader John Tory over McGuinty (33 per cent) as the leader who would make the best premier.

“Perhaps a sign of his government’s rocky road over the past little while, one third or 32 per cent of Ontarians (also) indicate that they have a “worsened” opinion of McGuinty over the past few months,” Ipsos Reid reported.

By comparison, only 14 per cent of respondents indicated they had a “worsened” opinion of Tory.

More generally, only 39 per cent of respondents believe the Liberals deserve to be re-elected while 55 per cent maintain it is “time for another provincial party to take over.”

On a more positive note, 51 per cent say they either strongly or somewhat approve of the job being done by the McGuinty government.

“The evident contradiction between only 39 per cent of Ontarians who say the Liberals deserve to be re-elected but with 51 per cent approving the performance of the government shows that voters may be feeling more fickle than committed, allowing the government room to grow,” Ipsos Reid says in its analysis.

A breakdown of the poll results also show:

- Older Ontarians more than age 55 are more likely to vote for the Conservatives - 49 per cent said they would support the Tories if a provincial election were held today.

- Younger Ontarians are more likely to vote Liberal, with 47 per cent indicating they would support the governing party.

- Amongst women, 54 per cent said they approve of the government’s performance, compared to 49 per cent of men.

- Nearly six in 10 or 58 per cent of Ontarians with a university degree approve of the government’s performance compared to 43 per cent of voters who do not have formal post-secondary education.

- Only 15 per cent of respondents said NDP Leader Howard Hampton would make the best premier while five per cent chose Green Leader Frank de Jong.

An Ipsos Reid poll released in February showed the Liberals at 38 per cent, the Conservatives at 33 per cent and the NDP at 17 per cent.

Four months earlier, the Liberals had a commanding lead with 41 per cent support, the Tories had the support of 34 per cent of respondents while 19 per cent supported the NDP.

The latest telephone survey of 801 Ontario adults was conducted between May 15 - 24 and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

CanWest News Service

© CanWest News Service 2007

[Delwin]

Now I have heard it all. Conservatives, are now complaining that the Liberals won't take responsibility, when all they have done since they have taken office is blame every issue on the previous government. Let the empty rhetoric commence.

[ryan29]

Delwin Delwin:

Now I have heard it all. Conservatives, are now complaining that the Liberals won't take responsibility, when all they have done since they have taken office is blame every issue on the previous government. Let the empty rhetoric commence.

but the provincial liberals have been in power for almost 4 years now so i think there is a certain level of responsibility that comes with that.

for the last while it seems they blame everything on the federal government this is not made up and is in the news everyday when the premier speaks or one of his cabinent minister.

anyone remember south parks " blame canada , blame canada" song

well at queens park it goes

" blame ottawa, blame ottawa"

[Delwin]

$1:

- native land claims , continuously blaming ottawa for the mess

Treaties are a federal issue.

$1:

- sent an open letter on gun control sent to the PM and some mpp's called for hand gun ban

A national handgun ban requires federal legislation.

$1:

- complaints about new future electoral boundaries which will give ontario new seats in the future

Elections, Federal

$1:

- being against the new child care plan

Federal Budget

$1:

- were not in favour of senate reform

Federal Issue.


I don't understand, is your complaint that he has an opinion of federal issues that affect his province, that he doesn't have the jurisdiction, or that a Liberal Premier's views differ with those of a Conservative PM ?

[ryan29]

my complaint is that he is complaining about absolutely everything that is being done federally.

on electoral boundaries he was complaining about a plan that in the future would give ontario almost a dozen new seats . why would he be complaining about this ? how could he claim it wasn't enough new seats when ontario was geting more new seats than any other province.

i would expect his views would differ from a conservative pm , but at some point he needs to respect the authority the federal government has when it comes to certian things.

[ryan29]

on native land claims , well caledonia has for the most part been a provincial issue. similar to the ipperwash situation of a few years ago.

maybe the federal government legally has juristicion here but the provincial government for the last year or so of this on going situation has been running the show in caledonia.

they have set up meetings with native groups and so on. also the opp has been a major player in this situation and are run by the province.

[ryan29]

from the article i posted
Compounding its troubles are new polling data that show the Conservatives have some momentum - more Ontarians (35 per cent) chose Conservative Leader John Tory over McGuinty (33 per cent) as the leader who would make the best premier.

More generally, only 39 per cent of respondents believe the Liberals deserve to be re-elected while 55 per cent maintain it is “time for another provincial party to take over.”

think maybe dalton mcguinty and his liberals are a littled worried , looking at this polling data and trying to find someone else to blame for the provinces problems?

[Whos_Voting_Oil]

ryan29 ryan29:

has anyone else noticed that lately it seems that the ontatio liberal government is against absolutely everything that the federal conservative government has done or is doing .
could this be a coincidence or are the ontario liberals doing this intentionally for there own political benefit?
in ontario there has in the past been a sort of balance theory where if the federal government is say liberal then generally the provincial one is conservative . you get the idea, it seems to me they might be trying to take advatage of this theroy and try to give voters a reason as to why they need the ontario liberals.

some examples
- native land claims , continuously blaming ottawa for the mess

- sent an open letter on gun control sent to the PM and some mpp's called for hand gun ban

- complaints about new future electoral boundaries which will give ontario new seats in the future

- being against the new child care plan

- were not in favour of senate reform

there are many other examples but i can't list them all


can all this complaining and bickering with ottawa really be about the " issues " or are the provincial liberals just doing this for there own political benefit? there is a provincial election taking place this fall.

Yes it true! It’s the only way to find out the truth about a party’s methods by hearing what the oppositions has to say. The majority of Ontarian’s don’t agree with the methods or changes put forth from a neoconservative government. Aside from the province of Alberta there is not one major Canadian City that won a seat with the current Harper government. All conservative seats where won by rule communities with little post secondary education? Simple minded tiles with little or no depth will appeal to the common rule community voter (Stand up for Canada, 6% GST, Family values) while targeting elderly and religious groups with spongy minds. It was a very successful campaign with great results for the Harper government.

Harpers government do not have a one MP representing Canadians largest city’s Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver until David Emerson took the conservative kickback to be Minister of International Trade.

[Whos_Voting_Oil]

ryan29 ryan29:

on native land claims , well caledonia has for the most part been a provincial issue. similar to the ipperwash situation of a few years ago.

maybe the federal government legally has juristicion here but the provincial government for the last year or so of this on going situation has been running the show in caledonia.

they have set up meetings with native groups and so on. also the opp has been a major player in this situation and are run by the province.

You’re so out to lunch! Caledonia is a Federal issue with sixth nations reserve like all reserves they are appointment by the federal government. The OPP is an none partitions police force that can’t enter the reserve without violating the community's sovereignty and legal jurisdiction over their reserve lands. The RCMP could enter the land, that’s why if your speeding in Ottawa along the federal parkway your get the RCMP to pull you over not the municipal Ottawa police. But we know Ontarians are going to be stuck with the federal bill for there land dispute millions in overtime and around the clock service.

For the past two months, Community Friends for Peace and Understanding with Six Nations, a new organization that includes local Caledonia residents, members of the labor movement, community activists and representatives from Six Nations has been meeting every week in Caledonia to figure out ways to build support for Six Nations land rights and to pressure the Canadian government to negotiate with Six Nations on a nation to nation basis.

The group has been working within the Caledonian community to overcome racism and hatred directed against Six Nations people by peacefully engaging Caledonians within anti-native demonstrations, bringing information about Six Nations door to door within the community, and leafleting within town. The group is also working to build political and financial support within the trade union movement for the people of Six Nations and is networking with other community organizations and progressive networks regionally, nationally and internationally to share information and resources in support of the Six Nations struggle.