I'm back !
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For example, the conflict in Sudan has nothing to do with Islam.
Islamists killing other muzzis and non-muzzis (Animists).
Same in Algeria (exept for Animists), 125 000 dead only in the 90’.
You will tell me the conflict in Algeria has nothing to do with Islam ?
But I agree it’s not all about Islam, as I have said here :
http://enpleindanslmille.blogspot.com/2 ... -lonu.html$1:
In Kosovo, it was non-Muslim serbs and croats committing genocide against Muslims. I'd like you to explain how that is proof of Islam being violent
Yeah the Serbs were not always nice, and they were even worst than muzzis (which are far from being angels themselves
).
http://rapidshare.de/files/34484698/Kos ... ration.wmvhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeC5zbA3F-UNever mind the centuries of Muslim occupation the Christian people of South-East Europe endured (does not justify, but still explains).
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The tension in Israel primarily has political causes.
And behind these politics hide religions.
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When the British were still in control of Israel/Palestine, it was actually promised to three different groups of people -- Jews (in the Balfour declaration), the eventual kings of Iraq (in return for starting an Arab uprising against the Ottomans in WWI), and to the Palestinians.
Yup, and the Arabs eventually got about 75 % of "Palestine" -- e.i. Transjordan.
And BTW, here's a link that explains further on all those "promises" :
http://palestinefacts.org/pf_ww1_britis ... _arabs.php$1:
History will also remind you that most of the outright wars against Israel were fought by secular Arab states, not religious fundamentalist states.
Yes, their leaders were not always to keen to hard-core islamists.
But the notion of "secularity" is VERY relative. Some researches made in Egypt are advancing that 97 % of the women in the country are clit-less. It's hard to know how many really are, but it's sure that millions of women in Egypt would enjoy some REAL secularity, if you see what I mean...
http://precaution.ch/wp/?p=279Anyway, as we see with Hamas and Hizballah, the "Muslim" aspect it taking over the "Arab" aspect of the Arab/Muslim war against Israel.
The war is more and more about religion and less and less about politics.
http://www.jerusalemonline.com/4israel.asp$1:
Furthermore, you are also ignoring the various conflicts in the world today that have nothing to do with Islam.
Well I didn't say ALL countries on earth are caused by Islam, but that most are. The fact that tons of conflicts have nothing to do with Islam changes nothing to what I said.
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Allow me to name a few for you:
-Chinese threats to annex Taiwan
-Chinese occupation of Tibet
-Feirce tension between North and South Korea
-Constant tensions between the United States and Cuba
Communism ; an other VERY VERY dangerous ideology that must be faught, just as Islam.
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Funny how your little map doesn't recognize any of this.
In the case you haven't noticed, the maps focuses on Islam-related conflicts, dumbass.
I understand it is quite hard to compress all of this on a single map on or even on a single video, so I have SIX pages, with TONS of links and DOZENS of videos here...
LE DJIHAD GLOBAL EN BREF$1:
Indonesian invasion of East Timor [bla bla] Indonesia [bla bla] secular state [bla bla].
Give me a breack with your "secularity".
Indonesia Hunts Down Christians Over 'Anti-Islam' Film...
http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?c ... 9766&par=0And when I think we refer to indonesia as a "moderate" Muslim country.
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By the way, the United States and UK supported Indonesia in that little endeavour.
And because the UK and US support something, then it is ALWAYS a good thing ? Nope.
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Do you think peaceful Muslims are going to spend much time with someone who is bending over backwards to mis-categorize Islam as violent?
Well, I spend 30 hours a week with Muslims, and they all know I don't have a very positive idea of their religion, it does not stop me to live peacefully with them (because thay are peacefull with me).
But I don't get your point... you want me to start having muzzi friends, meet them outside work and school... become a multiculti-fanatic like you... or convert to Islam ?
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Certainly, those who are prepared to meet violence or oppression with violence will engage you.
LOL, you have it exactly backwards :
I am prepared to meet the violence and oppression of fundamentalist Islam with violence.
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The KKK, in particular, continue to have thousands of members today.
Hizballah, Hamas, Muzzi brotherhood, the Baath party and Fatah have
HUNDREADS OF MILLIONS OF MEMBERS/SUPPORTERS TODAY.
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In reality, the WBC is merely a microcosm of a brand of Christianity that is becoming more militant, and more violent.
Oh yeah the nasty Evangelicals.
And taking the WBC as an example of Evangelism makes me >>>
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So were the thousands of lynchings of black men carried out by the KKK.
So what ? They do so against Biblical orders, so this argument is worth NOTHING.
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Islam does not own a monopoly on hateful crazies.
As if I had said such a thing.
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You yourself are proof of that.
Yup, with 55 000 Christians killed each year in the world by muzzis for the crime of beleiving in Jesus, and in a crumbling civilisation, what should I do ? Put my head in the sand like you ?
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Christian Identity groups like the Church of the Creator and Church of Jesus Christ Christian have even established militias and begun training for the "race war" in which true Christians (caucasians by necessity) will eliminate all the other races, whom they believe were created by Satan in order to destroy god's chosen people.
I repeat : find me the "biblical back-up" for these beleifs. Find it.
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Also why people such as yourself refuse to ignore activists within the Muslim community who speak out against violence committed in the name of Islam.
Ah, I ignore them ? Because I didn't speak about them I ignore them ? LOL
Not at all, these guys are very brave in my opinion, but, sadly, they just can't and won't change the course of things, because the islamic extreamists are too powerfull and too numerous.
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Except that Hazrat Mirza Tahir was a Muslim scholar who based his work off the original Islamic scriptures. Hazrat Mirza Tahir knew more about Islam than you, or any of the so-called "experts" who you insist are the world's only Islam experts.
Bla bla bla.
At the death of Muhammad, there were about 60 versions of the Koran, and it's his successor, Abou Bakr, that ordered them destroyed and made the official Koran we know today, the same Koran that orders jihad against unbeleivers.
As for experts this and experts that, I'm getting tired, what about you and me ? You bring the info to back your claims and I do the same.
It's useless to simply say "X person did Y thing and says Z things". You and me.
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Remember the KKK? Still exist.
I repeat :
Hizballah, Hamas, Muzzi brotherhood, the Baath party and Fatah have HUNDREADS OF MILLIONS OF MEMBERS/SUPPORTERS TODAY.The KKK is just a little reject compared to the organisations listed above.
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The neo-Nazis won enough of the vote in Germany to be allotted seats in the German legislative body:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/Interesting. They won a couple of seats. From the article :
"the result was as bad as everyone had feared."Humm, so they are feared by everyone. Well, that's even more interesting ; they have LOTS of opposition, they won't go too far, they just can't.
Again from the article :
"Germany's neo-Nazis [...] winning 7.3 % of the vote"7 %, and for Hamas, it was something like... err... 70 %. Whatever it was, the Fatah had most of the other votes, and both are neo-Nazi.
UNCOMPARABLE.$1:
They very much can wage wars and win elections.
I'm waiting for some german neo-Nazis Katyushas to pound Israel.
And if they start doing large-scale stuff like islamic terrorist organisations, it won't be long that we will put all our efforts to destroy them. (so why don't we do the same with islamo-nazis ? lack of courage...)
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I'd like you to explain why it is that Islam isn't legitimate.
Because it orders my death because I am a Christian.
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Those are Muslims holding a candlelight vigil for 9/11 victims.
Man, I think you don't understand me : THERE ARE MILLIONS OF GOOD MUSLIMS.
My point is that the bad ones are much more numerous than we think and that the bad ones don't distort Islam.
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I already know how you're going to respond to this
You guessed it.
And it's not just "Palestinians"...
http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/mideast/ ... he_USA.pps$1:
I've taken the liberty of forwarding your expected response to Hwacker. I'm sure he'll confirm it for us after you've made it.
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I just provided you with a decent list of such passages. Go ahead and read them.
Oh, no problem then. I'v read them, and found NO justification for the acts of the KKK and neo-Nazis.
After that I compared with the Koran, here things were VERY different.
La Bible est-elle aussi violente que le Coran?
Violences : islam et christianisme
Entre Mahomet et Jésus
Islam et Christianisme: des traditions équivalentes?
And, most of all, look for "Mythe PC: la Bible est aussi violente que le Coran" here...
Le Coran: un livre guerrierThe above links, especially the last one, explain how the New Testament does not push beleivers to violence, while it is exactly the contrary for the Koran.
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I don't need to deny that. There are enough actual experts on Islam who are more than willing to do so for me:
http://www.islamonline.net/English/In_D ... ence/indexTakia takia takia. Lovely takia.
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If you say so, frenchie.
"Frenchie"... what does that has to do with Jihad and Islam ?
Is this supposed to be an insult ? You insult me because I am a “Frenchie” ???
What a good example of respect and tolerance you are !
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Admitting that I am right again. Thank you.
Not at all.
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And now, he tries to pull the "they mistreat their women" card. Well, to that, there is plenty to speak to in Christianity
The fact that you ALWAYS heve to refer to Christianity in order to defend Islam is just a proof of your argumentation's weakness. You are unable to speak about Islam without refering to other religions.And there are plenty to speak in Islam as well...
Islam Watch - Islam Under Scrutiny by Ex-Muslims$1:
If you take all of that out of context, or even literally (as many people do), the Bible tells us to do all sorts of sick, twisted, and outright evil things to women.
Yep, OUT OF CONTEXT. And tons of the verses from that site you posted are from the OLD Testament. OLD.
Actually, the Bible says : "MEN, LOVE YOUR WOMEN AS MUCH AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF, A MAN THAT LOVES HIS WOMEN LOVES HIMSELF."That's for Christianity, now, Islam. You haven't responded directly to what I posted, so I re-post the same thing :
The above image was taken from Islamic Thinkers Society... CLICK ON THE IMAGE BELOW TO VIEW THEIR MUST-SEE WEBSITE :
Wife Beating : Good Enough for Muhammad, Good Enough for YouQuote of the above link :
" Verse 4:34 of the Qur'an is a challenge for contemporary Muslim apologists in the West.
The three major translations of the Qur'an from Arabic into English by Muslims were completed early in the 20th century. Though working independently, each translator came to the same conclusion concerning verse 4:34 - namely that it commands husbands to beat their wives in a manner that causes pain - if the circumstances agree. This agrees with the traditional interpretation that Islamic clerics have held since the time of Muhammad.
Fortunately, we don't have to guess at what Muhammad's position on wife-beating actually was, since the Hadith records at least one instance in which he struck his own (underage) wife in the chest while she was lying in bed. This would be Aisha, his favorite wife, and he did so because she left the house without his permission. Now, if he treated his favorite wife this way, one can only imagine how he might have acted toward his other wives, concubines and slaves. "$1:
Yet Hitler exploited various religious beliefs, and used various religious motifs found within Catholicism, in particular.
Yep, but as the quote I posted demonstrated, he had a lot of compassion for Islam and little with Christianity. You seem not to understand, so I repost it :
Adolf Hitler Adolf Hitler:
Lorsque, plus tard, y vint le Christianisme, alors on peut dire : les barbares. [...] Si Charles Martel n’avait pas vaincu à Poitiers : puisque le monde juif s’est déjà emparé de nous – que le Christianisme est bien quelque chose de fade - nous aurions bien mieux encore reçu le Mahométisme, cette doctrine de la récompense de l’héroïsme : le combattant seul a le septième ciel ! Les Germains auraient avec cela conquis le monde, ce n’est que par le Christianisme que nous en avons été tenus éloignés.
Of course he was still supposedly a Christian, but that was only to make sure he remains popular.
What about Hitler, wasn't he a Christian? From this wabsite
(CLICK ON IMAGE) :
Quote from the above website :
"So, you think the Ku Klux Klan is bad? So do we, but... Put the Numbers in Perspective...
Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Klu Klux Klan has in the last 50 years."And you DARE consider both as equal.
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Furthermore, Hitler's anti-Semitism found most traction with Germans who had been taught anti-Semitism in the Christian Church.
The Catholic Church ; being an Evangelical Zionist, you can imagine that I think the Cathos are not the best example regarding the Jews.
But still, allegations regarding the Catholic Church and the Jews are often false (remember “Amen” ?)...
Pie XII et les Juifs Le silence de Pie XII$1:
A terrorist converts to Islam after committing a terrorist act, and you think that's proof that Islam is violent?
No, my point is that the guy is an ex-leader of a Neo-nazi party that said that the Nazi aims – exept from white total supremacy – can only be achieved by Islam. You missed everything after the first sentence of the queote. Here it is again, to refresh your memory :
"David Matt, a founder of the British National Socialist Mouvement, is now Abdul-Aziz ibn Myatt. Formely opposed to non-white immigration into the UK, he now says that 'the pure authentic Islam of the revival, wich recognizes pratical jihad as a duty is the only force that is capable of fighting and destroying the dishonor, the arrogance, the materialism of the West. For the West, nothing is sacred, exept perhaps Zionists, Zionism, the hoax of the so-called Holocaust, and the idols which the West and its lackeys worship, or pretend to worship, such as democracy.' "$1:
And Saudia Arabia is a secular state. Dummy.
You are so stuck on stupid.
Back to
America Alone :
"The Saudis, who are famously 'our friends', behead folks on a daily basis. In 2005, the kingdom beheaded six Somalis. What for ? Murder ? Rape ? Homosexuality ? No, it was worst than that : auto theft. They’d been convicted and served five-year sentences but at the end thereof the Saudi courts decided to upgrade their crime to a capital offense. Some two-thirds of those beheaded in Saudi Arabia are foreign nationals, which would be an unlikely criminal profile in any civilised state and suggests that the justice 'system' is driven by the Saudis’ contempt for non-Saudis as much as anything else."
http://www.steynstore.com/product28.htmlNow here is a video about the guy that carries these executions, he’s not a terrorist, he, just a normal Muslim doing his normal job…
The Saudi government-appointed executioner for Mecca, Abdallah Al-BishiThis video will help you make the difference between a “moderate” Muslim and an “extreamist” Muslim.
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Next time you drink coffee, smoke tobacco, or fire a gun, thank a Muslim.
I don't drink coffe and don't smoke tobacco. For the gun, I will thank the Chinese for the powder and the Westerners for the innovation.
Here's more about all the great things the muzzis brought to the West (FREE BOOK)...
L'ISLAM ET LA PSYCHOLOGIE DU MUSULMAN$1:
Who's revising history here? Who's the one who tried to cite Bosnia/Herzegovina as proof that Islam is violent when it was Christians killing Muslims?
And Muslims killing Christians. And I did not focus on this conflict because I know that the muzzis are not the only responsible, it is only mentioned in the video/map because it is part of the greater jihad. A jihad in which, I remind you, fundamentalist muzzis are on the attack almost everywhere.
I know very well about the Balkans, and it is a shame what Christians did there. But hey, my uncle bombed the Orthodox Christians in 99'. Case solved. Now it's the Serbs that are suffering...
http://www.solidarite-kosovo.com/index.php$1:
Actually, he isn't. He's actually a secular leader who has to appease extremist Muslim clerics.
Ahmed-Jihad ?????
Here's more about this guy...LE NUCLÉAIRE IRANIEN.
above image from
http://www.onlythefacts.ca/
Not much different from the clerics…
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No. You're the enemy inside the gates of our tolerant society.
Typical.
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Except that Muhammad's teachings were embraced by the people of Medina, who were subsequently attacked by Mecca, and then continually attacked by other surrounding cities. The historical record verifies this.
LOL, that does not answer to what I said :
"So the muzzis also conquered all of Arabia, then Syria, Egypt, Nubia, the Magrheb, Mesopotamia, and Pesria in order to defend themselves from attacking ennemies, all the time, right ?"But don't worry, I still have plenty of ammo.
Here is the letter Muhammad sent to the people of Oman, and it clearly demonstrates that he did so not to defend himself, but to convert them by force to his new peaceful religion :
"[...] Je vous appelle à l'Islam. Acceptez mon appel, et vous serez indemne. [...] Si vous vous identifiez à l'Islam, j'accorderai la puissance sur vous. Mais si vous refusez de vous identifier à l'Islam, votre puissance disparaîtra, mes chevaux camperont sur l'étendue de votre territoire et nous régnerons en votre royaume.
Signé : Mohamet, messager de Allah."Complete version of the letter can be found here :
http://www.stop-islam.com/presentation_islam.pdfAnd here is the orginal letter :
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Well, all the countries listed have soldiers in Afghanistan right now.
America is far from alone. That is simply a fact, and idiots like yourself simply aren't smart enough to recognize it.
OK, you don't get it. It's demography.
Don't try to diss a book when you don't even know what it is all about.
Criticizing the title of the book won't get you anywhere. Forget about it.
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I'll remind you that you cited Pipes. Stand by your source. According to Pipes -- me: right. You: wrong. Live with it.
No dude, no.
Pipes was wrong on the point you picked-up, and I have demonstrated so.
The fact that you don't want to debate about what pipes said demonstrates your uncapacity to argue.
You are so desperate that the only thing you can do is say "Pipes said it" ; unable to argue farther than that.
$1:
I said that Wajid Shoebat has a valuable perspective on Islam having been an actual Muslim. I said that he qualifies as an expert, having lived the life. He knows some of the things that are wrong with Islam. But the real experts can also explain to us what is not wrong with Islam. There are many of both.
Bla bla bla.
You accuse me of citing Pipes and then not agree with him on ONE point, and then you do the same with Walid Shoebat.You are sooooo busting yourself !
Hey, I can play your little game ...
"According to SHOEBAT -- me: right. You: wrong. Live with it." $1:
Not really. As the descendent of a post-colonial immigrant to Canada, I am hardly the result of colonization.
And YOUR COUNTRY is the result of colonisation.
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You mean the same Tariq Ramadan who was refused a US visa for alleged donations to groups in France and Switzerland who allegedly have ties to Hamas?
Personally, when the word "alleged" appears more than twice in a proposition, I become instantly skeptical. Here's an idea: instead of alleging something, these people prove it for a change.
Nah, I have provided a LOT more stuff which you ignore because there’s just nothing you can say.
But you won't get away so easily with using Tariq Ramadan as a source !You think you can ignore all the info I have provided on this guy, but... OH NO... here it all come back at you
...
E-nough - Ramadan arrested after insulting policewoman>>>>> This guy is a Member of the Muslim Brotherhood (but he is not on the terror front, but on the information/media one), and his uncle (Al-Banna) is THE FOUNDER OF THE EGYPTIAN TERRORIST ORGANISATION.
« Le fondateur des Frères musulmans dont il est question dans le clip, Al-Banna, est l'oncle et le père spirituel des frères Ramadan, dont l'un d'eux, Tariq, est conseiller de Tony Blair (shows to what extent we have been infiltrated). »Click on image...
(yeah again this image... you force me to repeat myself once again)
Here is a written resumé of the above presentation :
NazislamHere's what Tariq Ramadan thinks of stoning...
« L'islamiste Tariq Ramadan approuve la lapidation, l'amputation, la charia.
Le Frère Musulman de Genève, spécialiste en "takia", avait jeté le trouble dans les esprits avec son appel à un "moratoire" sur les châtiments corporels imposés par la charia. Mais la fameuse université Al-Azhar du Caire s'oppose à ce moratoire et oblige Tariq Ramadan à s'expliquer. Et l'héritier d'Al-Banna est explicite : "Je n'ai jamais remis en cause les textes [imposant les châtiments corporels] et leur caractère définitif". »
« Ramadan loue la République islamique d’Iran - où se pratique la lapidation et la flagellation des femmes - comme "le pays musulman le plus en avance sur le droit des femmes" et présente le Soudan esclavagiste et génocidaire comme un "modèle d’alternative économique et culturel". »Sources :
Le paradoxe du dit "féminisme" musulman and
Presse québécoise.
Here's a nice peice of debunking on Tariq Ramadan's revesionism :
Les révisions du taré de Tariq !And here is a documentary unveiling the truth on this member of the Muslim Brotherhood :
Ramadhan Charlatan$1:
Although I will personally admit that Ramadan's claims that Iraq was invaded to defend Israel are laughable at best.
Ouch. I'll play your game once again.
"According to you TARIQ RAMADAN is one of the world's top experts on Islam" because you have braught this to the debate :
Professor Tariq Ramadan has studied Islam at the University of Geneva and al-Azhar University in Cairo and is currently senior research fellow at St Antony’s College, Oxford. The Messenger is easily the most scholarly and knowledgeable of these four biographies of Muhammad.And then you say that his claims are LAUGHABLE AT BEST. So I'm gonna throw you what you have thrown to me :
"RAMADAN, 'the expert' wrong. Buddy, you can't even keep your own ridiculous logic straight ! And YOU want to challenge the opinion of someone YOU YOURSELF labelled as an expert ???"Walid Shoebat, and now Tariq Ramadan ; that's your second time.
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Islamo-fascists.
Islamic fascists.
Islamo-fascists.
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Oh, no! The Muslim Brotherhood wants to restore the Caliphate! Everyone run and hide!
No don't run and hide, dumbass, STAND AND FIGHT !
And BTW, an orgnisation callad
Islamic "Thinkers" Society based in North America ALSO wants to restore the Caliphate ; here's an image from their website :
And that's from one of their demos...
But don't worry, "that's never gonna hapen".
Above, 8 months before Pearl Harbor, April 28, 1941.
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They oppose violence as a means to conflict resolution! That's... somehow... scary... ?
Ayoye, the Muzzi Brotherhood OPPOSE VIOLENCE
WTF.
From this page you can see a documentary - which aired on the History Channel - concerning this terrorist organisation. Check for "Videos" on the left... Screw Loose Change Video$1:
If you weren't so engrossed with intellectual bankrupt "scholars" like Robert Spencer
Between RS and a guy that says the Muzzi Brotherhood opposes violence, I wonder who's intellectually bankrupted.
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outright fascists like the folks at the anti-CAIR site
N'importe quoi.
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Destroyed Spencer? I already knew that.
No, destroyed Tariq Ramadan.
![[bash]](./images/smilies/bash.gif "Bash")
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The provinces they cited as proof the border is insecure are all securely under government administration.
Ha, then the Pakistani govt. lets the MNA and Jamaat-e-Islami indoctrinate children in Madrassas (and subsequently carry-out ops in A-stan) ?
Heck, everyone knows the Taliban have safe heaven in Pakistan.
And BTW, the Pakistani Minister of the Interior was targeted last week-end by a suicide-bomber ; 20 killed and over 30 wounded.
Let me quote the BBC (Bolchevik Broadcasting Corporation) Muslim guy from Pakistan :
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Such events have taken place more often since Musharraf has joined the USA in the SO-CALLED "war on terror".
See, Musharaf has enough opposition so that members of his goverment get attacked by islamists and even enough opposition so that the persons working with foreign media consider the US-led war on terror as a hoax against Muslims.
Current events are just prouving me right.
Patrick_Ross Patrick_Ross:
Cool, they look like an army, all moving at the same time.
Active Member 
Here we go.
Isn't it cool how I made you argue my point for me ? 
