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Are Anti-American attitudes justifiable?
Poll ended at Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:41 pm
Yes.  42%  [ 144 ]
No.  58%  [ 202 ]
Total votes : 346

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:42 pm
 


I do not recall saying they helped us officialy become a country, however they did help us become the country we are today. They helped us excel from a piece of land to one of the highest per capita GDP countries in the world, because we rode along their thriving economy. I do remember saying they help us retain our status as a country, and I have explained why I think this.

Regarding the teachers who are pro-American being fired, I think they should be promoted :wink: Kids should be taught to respect the US. You must not understand what it is like to be a politically aware kid in a school full of kids rapped up in stupid high school drama. If I asked kids in high school if they knew about the nuclear crisis in Iran, a majority would not have a clue, and because of this I can not have an intelligent conversation about Canadian politics or world issues. Kids are too rapped up in high school drama, and will only hold anti-American sentiment to be 'cool', because it is 'cool' to rebel. It is 'cool' to say you hate the US even though it is them who makes their(our) spoiled way of life possible, puts their TV shows on, produces their music, influences the way they dress, etc.

These are the exact responses I was predicting, and despite all of your confidence I only find it sad. I was born a Canadian, and want to have confidence in my country, but there are so many who disagree with the way I think, and perhaps you are right that I should move (despite not wanting to). I love this country because it has provided me a childhood, and a life in which I enjoyed, and it is among the best places to live. However I will stop replying because there is no sense in rebutting to minds that are impenetrable, and over-confident in their beliefs. I will continue to read the comments however if you still wish to share your thoughts.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:47 pm
 


philyd13 philyd13:
In response to 'Mustang1', this was in fact, a Rant that I quickly put together to present last year in English class. I agree, there are some flaws, but none of the flaws are contradictory or capable of jeopardizing the key point I was trying to get across in this rant. The key point being that I do not feel that Anti-American sentiment from Canadians is justifiable. Therefore there is only one of the issues in which you have risen, that I will justify because it is the only one relevant to my main thesis.


Your “rant” needs revisions. You haven’t demonstrated that Anti-American sentiment is not justifiable nor have you shown that those that harbour such notions are “dense” (a rather argumentative stance) or that Canadian pride must be accompanied by pride for our southern neighbour – a rather silly point. In fact, many of your points hinge off our admittedly strong economic ties between the two countries, but this doesn’t serve to buttress your point at all. In short, this rant is simply one person’s opinion.

$1:
“So, when I said 'they should be thanked for helping us retain our very existence' I was referring to the fact that our economy is strong when theirs is strong, it is weak when theirs is weak, and this concept only works one way.”


Canada’s economy is tied to the American one, but how does this suggest we exist only due to American financial ties? If the American economy crashed tomorrow, a lot of other nations would be in dire situations, but our existence wouldn’t be automatically threatened. The Great Depression was a watershed mark in history and despite the contemporary Chicken Littles, history didn’t end nor did Canada cease to exist. Sorry, how does this affirm anti-American sentiments aren’t justifiable?

$1:
“So when I say they should be thanked, it is because this Canadian way of life in which we love and take pride in, is essentially made possible because of the American economy”


Perhaps your idea of anti-Americanism is largely based on your staunch pro-Americanism? It seems that this myopic view only deduces that anything that deviates from the Americanphile stance must be anti-Americanism. Therein lies the problem.

$1:
“If Canada was attacked, do you think our military would be capable of defending the second largest (landmass) country in the world? Not a chance. So who do you think would be flying over to rescue us all? The Americans.”


Good. They’d be respecting NORAD and NATO obligations. Fantastic. This means they are free from criticisms because they might respect collective security principals?

$1:
“I’m just thanking them in advance, and giving them the respect they deserve”


And this proves anti-American stances are not justifiable how?

$1:
“Until Canada is able to support itself, and until we do not need the USA as a crutch, I will stand firm in saying that Anti-American attitudes are unjustifiable.”


The U.S. is hardly a crutch – that’s pure hyperbole – and while we do have collective security agreements with the United States and we do rely heavily on the American market, this doesn’t mean that American is above reproach, beyond intelligent critiques and free from one’s rejection of its ideologies. You’ve yet to demonstrate that and so far, all I’ve seen is unabashed pro-Americanism that’s largely based on economic dependence. That’s hardly persuasive.

Oh, and you still forgot to address this,

$1:
“Our countries are among the youngest in the world, and we share similar histories”


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:00 pm
 


$1:
You must not understand what it is like to be a politically aware kid in a school full of kids rapped up in stupid high school drama.
Actually, I do.

I'm in Grade 9. I understand fully.

Are you in Ontario? In this high school (Alberta, blegh) kids aren't Anti-American to be cool. Infact, they are Anti-Canadian around here to be cool. It's a sickening sentiment far worse then simple Anti-Americanism.

But like I said, I hate the fact that my country is dependant on another, especially the country where the majority of Anti-Canadianism comes from. I don't want Canada to be 85% dependant on ANY country.

I want Canada to have it's own media, it's own music, it's own TV, it's own GOD DAMN CONFIDENCE IN ITSELF.

I don't want my great country following another word for word! I want Canada to be it's own!

I don't want to feel like a secondary citizen in my own country! I don't want to feel like my country is America Jr!

This is why I am Anti-American.

I dislike the United States, because I dislike what Canada has become because of it.

I don't WANT to see America on every corner in Canada! Just because the United States basically runs everything Canadian nowadays does not mean I want it to! I want Canada to be Canadian! NOT AMERICAN!

You were predicting these responses of protectionism, pride and nationalism? Ever try and think about it?

Some Canadians are proud enough that they don't want to be anything else.

Over-Confident in our beliefs? How so? So we SHOULDN'T want Canada to be it's own? We shouldn't want Canada to be independent of other forces?

Keep in mind, I'm a Proud Canadian far before an Anti-American.

I don't want American influence! Do you think I'm Anti-American to be cool? FUCK NO. I'm infact SHUNNED daily for my beliefs, it'd be fucking stupid to hate the USA to be cool.

Long Live Canada. Long Live a Canadian Canada.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:00 pm
 


philyd13 philyd13:
I do not recall saying they helped us officialy become a country, however they did help us become the country we are today. They helped us excel from a piece of land to one of the highest per capita GDP countries in the world, because we rode along their thriving economy. I do remember saying they help us retain our status as a country, and I have explained why I think this.



A little oversimplified, don’t you think? While Canada does enjoy a high stand of living and we do owe a great deal to trade with the United States, this doesn’t mean that all of the domestic political decisions (that includes democratic socialized notions such as schooling, universities, healthcare), economic ventures, matters of jurisprudence (surely you aren’t suggesting that our legal system hasn’t shaped our current society) and foreign endeavours are linked to the American economy.

$1:
“ These are the exact responses I was predicting, and despite all of your confidence I only find it sad”


I’d be interested in seeing how my responses elicit the feeling of “sad”.

$1:
“I was born a Canadian, and want to have confidence in my country, but there are so many who disagree with the way I think, and perhaps you are right that I should move (despite not wanting to).””


This is nothing but empty minutia.

$1:
“However I will stop replying because there is no sense in rebutting to minds that are impenetrable, and over-confident in their beliefs”


Ah, the inevitable cop out – we call this a pre-emptive dodge. So far, you’ve yet to substantiate your point or demonstrate that it represents anything other than a highschooler’s infantile attempt at intellectual discourse. You weren’t persuasive, you weren’t provocative, you were merely looking to propagate your opinions unmolested, but that’s the shallow end of the intellectual pool, so perhaps you need a few more lessons with the water wings before venturing back?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:08 pm
 


Some Pro-American is abusing the poll.

Trev needed to fix those things.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:08 pm
 


Well I don't think I need to say where I stand on the USA, everyone here knows. :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:10 pm
 


tritium tritium:
Well I don't think I need to say where I stand on the USA, everyone here knows. :lol:
Texas is your homeland. We got it.

Funny, you voted 7 times.

:roll:

EDIT: So much for that poll :|


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:22 pm
 


Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
tritium tritium:
Well I don't think I need to say where I stand on the USA, everyone here knows. :lol:
Texas is your homeland. We got it.

Funny, you voted 7 times.

:roll:

EDIT: So much for that poll :|


The Sickness of Canadian Anti-Americanism

By Jamie Glazov
FrontPageMagazine.com | March 7, 2003



Canadian anti-Americanism has always been a perfect reflection of the pathological nature of anti-Americanism as a whole. Indeed, in Canada, where I am a citizen and have grown up most of my life, anti-Americanism has literally defined the national identity and culture of this country – and in the most repulsive and embarrassing ways.

Today, Canadian anti-Americanism is preventing our present Liberal government from giving full-hearted support to the U.S. against Saddam Hussein. The Canadian leadership would rather exhibit its “independence” of the Americans than to confront a brutal dictator who equals Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot in their monstrosity.

This reality explains why Mark Kingwell’s recent column “What distinguishes us from Americans,” in Canada’s national newspaper, the National Post, infuriated me as immensely as it did.

Kingwell defends the reality that much of Canadian identity has been built on Canada defining itself in opposition to the United States. He writes, “I have never understood why this is considered inadequate or feeble. If you were the only dissenter in a room holding a dozen people, standing up and saying `I’m not the same as you’ would be a clear mark of moral courage.”

Really?

Suppose this scenario occurs during the Second World War and the other eleven people want to stop Hitler in his tracks and to prevent the Nazification of the world and the mass genocide of Jews. Would exhibiting your “independence” for the sake of fulfilling your little-brother complex be a mark of “moral courage”?

Many Canadian nationalists think so.

The analogy I use above perfectly suits the embarrassing and immoral behaviour of Canadian nationalists throughout the Cold War, especially under the leadership of Pierre Trudeau, when anti-Americanism was seen as being more cutting-edge than confronting and fighting the genocidal Soviet regime.

This psychic illness is founded on Canada’s desperate desire to be “different” than the Americans -- a result of Canada being built on the “counter-revolution.” When the British colonies revolted against their masters in 1776, Canadians became the first anti-Americans. Canada is based on anti-Americanism. Without anti-Americanism -- as one author has quipped -- Canada would cease to exist.

While Kingwell conspicuously avoids the issue of how bearing the mark of “moral courage” translated into many Canadian nationalists engaging in Gulag denial during the Cold War, the historical record stands firmly in place: the Soviet regime was an expansionist and totalitarian regime that exterminated millions of its own people. Consequently, as the de-classified documents from the Soviet archives now prove, the Canadian nationalists who demonized the United States, and exonerated the Soviet Union, in the Cold War, for the sake of anti-Americanism, were completely wrong.

Yet no apologies are forthcoming.

But at least we now understand why Canadian “nationalist” writers and historians, such as John Warnock, Donald Creighton, and James Minifie, wrote interpretations and histories about the Cold War that demonized the U.S. and left names such as Joseph Stalin in the footnotes.

As a Russian émigré, I am not humoured by Kingwell’s assault on historical memory; I am not humoured by Gulag denial just as a Jewish person wouldn’t be humoured by Holocaust denial.

While I was engaged in my doctoral studies in history at York University in Toronto, I would confront many of my colleagues about this issue. Why, I asked them, were they reluctant to face the errors of Canadian nationalists vis-à-vis the Cold War? Were they not aware of how the documents from the former Soviet archives were discrediting almost everything Canadian nationalists had said about the Cold War? My colleagues’ favourite response was to shrug their shoulders and to dismiss my arguments as being too “hung up” on “the past.” The Cold War “was over,” they told me, and it was silly to chase down “old ghosts”. My “obsession” with the Soviet archives, they patiently explained to me, was analogous to “necrophilia.” And these were historians.

The only historical necrophilia they supported, it seems, was the variety that found more sins of American foreign policy and capitalism -- not of socialism.

Kingwell thinks it is a badge of “moral courage” to stand up to the Americans. How about during the Cuban Missile Crisis in October 1962, when Prime Minister John Diefenbaker refused to put Canadian forces on an increased level of alert (Defcon 3) in order to show that he wouldn’t be “pushed around” by President John Kennedy? Since Canada had a bilateral defence alliance with the United States for the defence of the North American continent, Diefenbaker’s inaction left an enormous gap in continental defence.

There is nothing “moral” about Canadian anti-Americanism. And nothing logical either. I have always found it humorous how Canadians look down at Americans for loving themselves “too much”, but how they simultaneously swell with a distorted form of patriotic pride at being unlike and better than Americans. Canadian nationalists also always pride themselves on their politically-correct tolerance and "multi-culturalism" while engaging in anti-Americanism -- a disposition, as sociologist Paul Hollander has demonstrated, that is directly related with racism, sexism, and anti-Semitism.

In Canada, of course, it has always been legitimate to be a bigot, as long as it involves hating Americans.

Kingwell refers to how little Americans know about us. He explains that “American ignorance is a staple of our richly ironic strain of humour.” Really? I never found anything slightly “rich” in this humour at all. Growing up in Canada, I was always greatly entertained by the endless and smug complaining about how "stupid" Americans are because of their ignorance about Canada. Let’s be serious: why would Americans in Los Angeles and New York City need to know anything about Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, or about anything else Canadian?

Kingwell ends his essay by saying that Canadians sometimes wish the U.S. “had a little more of what makes us great.” Uh, sorry, but a little bit more of what exactly? Perhaps, instead, it would be wiser for us to focus on giving up on clinging to the ingredients of our “moral courage”, which includes the joke of bilingualism – English Canada’s last pretence of possessing any unique characteristics whatsoever. Let’s admit it, without bilingualism, English Canadians would no longer be able to say, "We’re not like those Americans," without someone else rejoining: "Oh? And how is that?" And there will be no answer, because there will be nothing to say.

If we just manage to get over our little brother complex, then maybe we will also one day no longer have to victimize ourselves with those torturous and emotionally-excruciating conversations about Margaret Atwood and Pierre Berton, in which so many Canadians attempt to show their un-American stripes by discussing novels that no human being outside of Canada has ever heard of, nor would ever read under sane circumstances. And we would also be liberated from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, an entity that it takes masochism to tune into, and that wouldn’t survive five minutes if its life depended on the tastes and desires of Canadians themselves.

Indeed, if we purged ourselves of Kingwell’s mark of "moral courage", Canada’s celebration of mediocrity and, more importantly, its exoneration of evil regimes and mass murderers around the world, would finally come to its long-awaited conclusion.



SOURCE


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:22 pm
 


Mr. Canada, I have yet to see one Anti-Candian remark. And I live in Texas! :)

Clogeroo sums it up nicely. Many Americans just do not care what happens in Canada. You do your own thing and your not signing nuclear agreements with Iran. If the latter happens, I am sure Anti-Canadianism would rise in the US.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:28 pm
 


dog77_1999 dog77_1999:
Mr. Canada, I have yet to see one Anti-Candian remark. And I live in Texas! :)

Clogeroo sums it up nicely. Many Americans just do not care what happens in Canada. You do your own thing and your not signing nuclear agreements with Iran. If the latter happens, I am sure Anti-Canadianism would rise in the US.


Cool, where abouts in Texas. I'm from Arlington, Texas... just down the road from the ball park.

Moved to Canada to work in the Oil Industry... (we all make mistakes in life) :lol:

I am a Canadian citizen too.. :oops:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:34 pm
 


dog77_1999 dog77_1999:
Mr. Canada, I have yet to see one Anti-Candian remark. And I live in Texas! :)

Clogeroo sums it up nicely. Many Americans just do not care what happens in Canada. You do your own thing and your not signing nuclear agreements with Iran. If the latter happens, I am sure Anti-Canadianism would rise in the US.
Well, the Iraq War drove many an American crazy against Canada, ;)

Ever here the term, "Bomb Canada"? They have it on T-shirts nowadays...


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:40 pm
 


tritium tritium:
Moved to Canada to work in the Oil Industry... (we all make mistakes in life) :lol:

I am a Canadian citizen too.. :oops:
:roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:42 pm
 


Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
dog77_1999 dog77_1999:
Mr. Canada, I have yet to see one Anti-Candian remark. And I live in Texas! :)

Clogeroo sums it up nicely. Many Americans just do not care what happens in Canada. You do your own thing and your not signing nuclear agreements with Iran. If the latter happens, I am sure Anti-Canadianism would rise in the US.
Well, the Iraq War drove many an American crazy against Canada, ;)

Ever here the term, "Bomb Canada"? They have it on T-shirts nowadays...


Well Mr_Canada I must agree with you on that one.

At one time old Bill O'Rielly wanted to boycott Canada, Fox News supported that idea.

This was before FoxNews was in Canada. :wink:

[youtube width=425 height=350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbX-2X7_h-M[/youtube]


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:46 pm
 


philyd13 philyd13:
The key point being that I do not feel that Anti-American sentiment from Canadians is justifiable.


Off the top of my head, the softwood lumber fiasco is a reason to be anti-american on some level.

philyd13 philyd13:
If Canada was attacked, do you think our military would be capable of defending the second largest (landmass) country in the world?


And who, pray tell, do you fear will attack us?

philyd13 philyd13:
Until Canada is able to support itself, and until we do not need the USA as a crutch, I will stand firm in saying that Anti-American attitudes are unjustifiable.


I'm not so sure we couldn't support ourselves. Obviously, there would be some drastic changes, but our economic relationship with America is that of convenience on both sides. We don't get any special deals because we're Canadian. They trade with us because of our abundance of natural resources and close proximity.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:48 pm
 


Here this is a little funny, it also has Adult content.

The real difference between Canada and the USA

ROTFL


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