[westmanguy]

Anybody feel this way?

I feel immigrants and people of different races greatly enrich our country and we need them for our economic prosperity. We need people to replace our aging work force and pay taxes to support the soon-to-be-retired baby boomer generation.

My problem is, and I think this is why many in Quebec and in Europe are embracing anti-immigrant right wing populism is the religious element.

I don't want Christians dominating this country. I'm opposed to Catholic schools in Ontario, the Lord's prayer in school, Christianity being used as a justification against equal rights (i.e. women working outside of the home, gay rights, same sex marriage, etc.)

I apply my same secular standards to the other religions. I don't want a Sikh student wearing a dagger in school. I don't support a prayer room for Muslim students. I think faces should be shown at all time in public places.

I think the public sphere should be purely secular, and while I support immigration and learning about their culture, I think the religious aspect of their culture should not be part of the equation.

If we're going to let Muslims have prayer rooms, and all this other accomodation then I want the Christians to regain some of their rights back. Only fair, right?

I think my point of view is shared by many who are not very religious and want a secular society. I think we need clear standards and that immigrants coming to this country should have to agree to our country's founding principles of equality for all. Immigrants should have to be in agreement of our fundamental Charter rights, and pledge their support for women's rights, gay rights, etc. etc. etc.

That's my opinion. Thoughts?

[Public_Domain]

[westmanguy]

Thanks Mr_C.

Frankly, I think the federal government should develop a pledge type sheet, that outlines the collective Canadian values of equality, rule of law, etc. that immigrants, before they receive any permanent residence or citizenship, they should have to sign. And it should be taken in consideration on whether or not they're given status. This country should be declared secular in the public sphere. Its only going to get increasingly climatic with more minotiry religions wanting more accomodation. We just need to do away with all of it.

[Public_Domain]

[Faye]

You can't blame immigrants if the government keeps giving... I agree with you, but if you had that religion and you would have been given rooms for praying, etc. would you say no to it? Canada has given and also accepted immigrants how they are, "mixed salad-idea", but it's not working..

[andyt]

I'm the opposite - anti-immigrant (no matter where they're from) but pro-religious. (As long as they're tolerant of other religion and no religion).

Or rather I'm not anti-immigrants that are already here (as long as they fit in) but anti bringing in any more at this point.

[kenmore]

I am not anti-immigration but I am against being forced or attmpted forced to change my way of life, beliefs and traditions to accommodate Muslims. Canada is a country of immigrants. They have been arriving and welcomed for years. We have never had issues until the doors opened to the middle east and they brought their bullshit here. That includes them all. I agree with the freedom of religion, but I think that it is best kept in the home and not be shoved down our throats. I have said it before and I believe it, they have an agenda to convert the world to Islam. They will push and shove until they feel they can win. I also believe there are many here illegally. How is it that the man will take a job in Toronto, his wife may be in Halifax or the states? I hear this alot at work. Canada was founded on christian traditions and religion has played a great part in who we are. Why should we bend, change etc for the muslims. Truth is, out of all the immigrants they don't fit and they don't want to.. So whats the solution? Canada has to take steps to protect our culture and heritage.

[poquas]

That’s a tough call. I’m atheist so I don’t accept any religion as rational, however I think people can worship anything they want as long as it doesn’t impose on anyone one else in any way and it’s not illegal in any form.

Specifically with immigration, I approve of multiculturalism in its intent, however not in how it’s been implemented. Huge concentrations of a new culture in any city is asking for problems. East Indians in the Fraser Valley, Chinese in Richmond and Markham, Somali in Ottawa, Haitians in Montreal, etc. This creates ghettos. People living there are hesitant to go outside of their areas and people are uncomfortable going to a part of their city that’s become foreign. Creating rules that if you immigrate to Canada will require you to live in a small town in the middle of nowhere might help. I honestly don’t know how to solve it now.

[kenmore]

Right you are poquas..

[andyt]

poquas poquas:

That’s a tough call. I’m atheist so I don’t accept any religion as rational, however I think people can worship anything they want as long as it doesn’t impose on anyone one else in any way and it’s not illegal in any form.

Specifically with immigration, I approve of multiculturalism in its intent, however not in how it’s been implemented. Huge concentrations of a new culture in any city is asking for problems. East Indians in the Fraser Valley, Chinese in Richmond and Markham, Somali in Ottawa, Haitians in Montreal, etc. This creates ghettos. People living there are hesitant to go outside of their areas and people are uncomfortable going to a part of their city that’s become foreign. Creating rules that if you immigrate to Canada will require you to live in a small town in the middle of nowhere might help. I honestly don’t know how to solve it now.

Except that's illegal - we don't have internal controls of movement. And what would those immigrants do for work in those small towns in the middle of nowhere, and where would they all live, go to school etc?

We need an immigration policy that actually matches immigrants with jobs. As people have suggest on this forum, including myself, let immigrants start off on temporary work visas. Then, if they've kept their noses clean for 5 years and are successful here, they can become landed immigrants, and after another 10 years become Canadian citizens. But with the recent downturn we've had, we should be allowing very few immigrants, it just makes no sense to be importing people into a weak job market. We should spend more effort training and retraining Canadians before we look outside the country.

[Bruce_the_vii]

Westmanguy some of the issues you mention are pretty small potatoes. And you are dismissing the importance of religion to many people. Religion is a big part of the cultural identity of many people. It takes all types and I think you are grouching about that.

[martin14]

andyt andyt:

poquas poquas:

That’s a tough call. I’m atheist so I don’t accept any religion as rational, however I think people can worship anything they want as long as it doesn’t impose on anyone one else in any way and it’s not illegal in any form.

Specifically with immigration, I approve of multiculturalism in its intent, however not in how it’s been implemented. Huge concentrations of a new culture in any city is asking for problems. East Indians in the Fraser Valley, Chinese in Richmond and Markham, Somali in Ottawa, Haitians in Montreal, etc. This creates ghettos. People living there are hesitant to go outside of their areas and people are uncomfortable going to a part of their city that’s become foreign. Creating rules that if you immigrate to Canada will require you to live in a small town in the middle of nowhere might help. I honestly don’t know how to solve it now.

Except that's illegal - we don't have internal controls of movement. And what would those immigrants do for work in those small towns in the middle of nowhere, and where would they all live, go to school etc?

We need an immigration policy that actually matches immigrants with jobs. As people have suggest on this forum, including myself, let immigrants start off on temporary work visas. Then, if they've kept their noses clean for 5 years and are successful here, they can become landed immigrants, and after another 10 years become Canadian citizens. But with the recent downturn we've had, we should be allowing very few immigrants, it just makes no sense to be importing people into a weak job market. We should spend more effort training and retraining Canadians before we look outside the country.

Actually thats not a bad idea, matching immigrants with jobs, with the
big cities being off limits to the program.
That way, new arrivals have a chance to settle into their new community, with a job.
By the time they get PR status, the pull of the ghetto will be much less.

And cancel family class.


As far as religion goes, we opened the door with Catholic schools.
Those doors should be closed for all now.
Religion should be a private thing.

[Bruce_the_vii]

One of the problems with matching immigrants with jobs is that you are asking a clerk in the Immigration Department to do the work. A couple of years ago the Immigration's Department had a list of fields with shortages of workers that numbered over 300 fields. The Conservatives introduced increases Temporary Foreigh Workers Visa for shortages but cut the list to 30 something fields. The Immigration Department doesn't know if the requirement is 30 or 300. That was prerecession. The other problem is if you ask businessmen they will say life is tough and ask government for some help, immigrant labour. That's all the information you'll get from them.

[westmanguy]

That doesn't work. In my small rural town we have 3 Muslim doctors and they do not participate or associate with anyone in the community. They're off to Winnipeg everyweek. We used to have 4...the other one left for Toronto after a year. They come here to do their time, and as soon as they can get out they head for one of the 3 big cities.

Its a very difficult proccess integrating immigrants into non-urban areas. We have had a little bit of success with our influx of Philipino nurses and pig farm workers though.

[HyperionTheEvil]

We need immigrants,and with them come their religions. I've made clear that i think religion is serious problem. That all being said i do believe that people have the right to believe in what they choose and should not be restrained except in certain circumstances (the Siekh daggers for example) or if someone chooses to serve in a branch of the government that requires certain standards (RCMP and Military members and their uniforms)

Canada should a totally secular nation, which means at its heart that while people have a right to believe in a deity, the government does not support any such religion and specifically state that religion has no place for formulating laws or policy.