[Mustang1]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Sneezy St. Luci likely thinks that indentured servitude meant they wore false teeth. What a dumbshit.

He’s not dumb; his special ed. Teacher called him “special” and “exceptional”. He has toilet on demand, but he can also deliver papers and work a double down at the Burger King. I applaud his attempt to converse with others. He’s an absolute disaster due to his inability to pick up on the basic of social cues, but he’s trying. Let’s give a cheer to our special little guy, St. Lucy the Cylon ass kicker! May the Gods of Kobol be with him, because I sure as hell won’t.

[Nietzshe]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Sneezy St. Luci likely thinks that indentured servitude meant they wore false teeth. What a dumbshit.

Do you even know what an indentured servant was?? If so, please explain to a dummy like myself. Thank you.

I am amazed we have individuals who compare indentured servitude with actual slavery. Incredible!

[Cmmd1]

My opignion on this :

USA win = eee, its now lol

British win = Quebec wouldn't be french anymore.
Canada wouldn't be call Canada.
It would be the BIGGEST country on earth. Probably the more power full.
It will be "independant" one day, like having a GG. See the Queen or/and King some times.

USA win / with Quebec !!!!! = Canada wouldn't be there !!!!!!!!!!! ( Because England wouldn't have a "base land" in america!!! ) Its would be the BIGGEST country on earth!

Quebec wouldn't speak french anymore. Or maybe not, because of the "USA charter" We would be free to keep ur language maybe.



In resume, without "French-Canadians" . Canada wouldn't exist! !!!!!!!!! ( But without English, Canada and USA wouldn't exist too lol. AND "Nouvelle-France" would be the BIGGEST country on earth !!)

[Nietzshe]

Cmmd1 Cmmd1:

My opignion on this :

USA win = eee, its now lol

British win = Quebec wouldn't be french anymore.
Canada wouldn't be call Canada.
It would be the BIGGEST country on earth. Probably the more power full.
It will be "independant" one day, like having a GG. See the Queen or/and King some times.

USA win / with Quebec !!!!! = Canada wouldn't be there !!!!!!!!!!! ( Because England wouldn't have a "base land" in america!!! ) Its would be the BIGGEST country on earth!

Quebec wouldn't speak french anymore. Or maybe not, because of the "USA charter" We would be free to keep ur language maybe.



In resume, without "French-Canadians" . Canada wouldn't exist! !!!!!!!!! ( But without English, Canada and USA wouldn't exist too lol. AND "Nouvelle-France" would be the BIGGEST country on earth !!)

That part about Quebec and Britain is most interesting since the British conquered the French here in Canada so they did in fact 'win'. The Quebecois are French today only because their British overlords allowed the French to retain their culture and rights. Clearly a huge mistake.

Had Britain managed to retain both Canada and the USA it would without a doubt be the most powerful nation on earth. WWI and WWII would never have happened.

The USA did win silly. They defeated the British who were forced to surrender at Yorktown. I find it interesting that in the act of surrender Lord Cornwallis surrendered his sword to the French vicompte rather than General Washington. It is rather telling since it shows Cornwallis clearly believed it was a French victory and not an American one. In this he was completely correct. The USA did indeed attack Quebec but that was in the War of 1812 where they were severely clocked by the British. So you can count that theory out. You say they would not have a land base in America? What do you think Canada was? Quebec would never have fallen into Americans hands. The Americans were just not strong enough. The only reason the British failed to quell the silly little rebellion was thanks to more important matters back on the Continent.

Had the USA ever managed to conquer Quebec as in your fantasies you can rest assured French as a language would have died here in North America.

[xerxes]

becks10 becks10:

Ever seen the episode of Sliders where the americans lost the war of independence, and the instead of the United States of America there was the British States of Ameirca.....there u have it LoL.

I was wondering if someone else had ever watched that show.

[Nietzshe]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

twister twister:

Nietzshe Nietzshe:

twister twister:

had the british repealed thier taxes and gave the money back to the colonies this would had made it possible for other things....however, many things would have changed but somethings would have been the same... there still would have been a drive West.. there still would have been displacement of the first nations people. Still believe there would have to be two seperate countries Canada and America.

The British would never have repealed their taxes. The cost of maintaining their Empire was just too high. Had the Thirteen Colonies not revolted it is conceivable that the British would have united the colonies of Upper and Lower Canada with those of the Thirteen Colonies. Had this happened the new combined territory would have eventually been granted its own independence free of war just as Canada did in 1867. This would have created a monstrosity of a nation. It is my estimation this new nation would have been called Canada or just America. This would have become a superpower the likes of which the world has never seen. The availability of resources would have rendered this new nation utterly indestructible. The wealth of Great Britain during the period up to the eventual independence of this new united super-state would have been inestimable. As a result, Britain would have been far too strong for the Germans to have ever challenged. France would have been history, thankfully.

The key word was "HAD" the British repealed thier taxes, they never would have done that there is no doubt about that. I still believe though at some point things would have taken a different turn perhaps the Louisiana Purchase didn't happen or French colonies pulled out of upper Canada to set up colonies in the Southern US who knows but I am quite cetain that whatever would have happened we would not be one single entity America or Canada but rather several fractionalized countries with defined border such as europe is. Dreams of Cascadia California to Alaska including part of Yukon, Alberta and several western states come into view. Sigh...

Adam Smith himself advocated Britain turning the American colonies free because the cost of protecting and administering them was too high. The taxes wouldn't have been repealed by parliament because what government does that once the taxes have been put in place?

Christ on a stick! I have been saying this from the very beginning of the thread. Do you people not read the posts? I stated the reason Great Britain was taxing the Colonies was because the cost of maintaining her Empire was so high. There was absolutely no way to keep maintaining it with the taxation level it had at the time. Building the world's largest navy was costly. Did you know that in those days building a full-size man-o-war cost the equivalent in today's dollars to 3 nuke aircraft carriers? That is a lot of money. Of course the taxes would not have been repealed. Britain's Empire was growing, not shrinking. Therefore the costs of maintaining that Empire would have grown in an upward spiral. The Empire dealt with costs that would have driven today's nations mad. Think about the Soviet Union and take a guess at what finally killed them. Do not tell me it was the USA. They had absolutely nothing to do with the Soviet Union's demise however much they claim the opposite.

[Ruxpercnd]

Seems to me that Canada got a real population push from loyalist who left the American colonies, thus the real difference between Canadians and Americans got it's start. Without this squeeze play, Canada would have been mostly populated by French under British control. There was not much of a British Canada until after the American Revolution.

So, without the American rebellion, East Canada would have been almost completely of French heritage.

Even the Canadians had some rebellion against the British, so rebellion and a split with loyalist forces would most certainly happen somewhere, sometime.

$1:

1837
Along with a general feeling that the government was not democratic, the failure of the executive committee to maintain the confidence of the elected officials leads to violent but unsuccessful rebellions in Upper and Lower Canada. The leaders, W.L. Mackenzie (Reformers) and Louis-Joseph Papineau (Patriotes), both escape to the U.S.

Yes, loyalists collect in Canada, rebels collect in America.

Amazingly, the British would maintain control over the French natives and the American rebel colonies did not implode and seek British help as predicted.

In the West, I believe that even though Britain, anchored Canada at Fort Victoria and Vancouver, many Western Canadians were originally from the Amerian side. Hence a more common culture in the West.

In America, we were able to almost completely kill off French culture in the Mississipi and Ohio River Valleys, North of Louisiana.

So here we are, Canada heavily influenced by French culture and still singing "God Save the Queen". Americans being as obnoxious as ever since the beginning, ha ha... like rebellious teenagers. Canadians represent "the good child".

Americans hate non-democracies to the point of psychosis. Canadians say, "what the hey, eh?".

Americans heavily influenced by German, Dutch, Spanish, etc. cultural mixes. Canadians are pretty much British and French, even though Canada has other immigrant groups.

I think I have to conclude that the split between loyalist and rebels was a certainty. So, the formation of Canada and America was pretty much a certainty.

[Wullu]

What this thread needs is for Harry Turttledove to lean into this topic. For anyone that has not read him, he does alternative history novel series. Some on the outlandish side ( aliens invade during WWII and the effects that has ), some very probable ( the North did not get a copy of Lee's plans and Gettysburg went to the south ). Both of these series come across as completely believable ( even the aliens )

He could do a fantastic job with this topic. Well this reminds me of him so time to start reading the books again.

[ShepherdsDog]

Ah but Harry Turtledove has an actual PhD in Byzantine History and has done serious academic works along with his works of fiction. I 've read quite a few of his books. The American Empire/Great War/Settling Accounts series one is quite interesting, as are the novels, 'In the Presence of Mine Enemies' and 'Ruled Brittania'.

Fans of Roman/Byzantine military tactics and history might enjoy his Videssos works. I've found these works well written and researched and therefore highly entertaining.

I spend most of my time going over schematics, blue prints, reports and professional journals and consider this material my brain candy. Juicy Luci however doesn't seem to understand where fiction ends and reality begins as evidenced by his past maulings at the loving claws of Mustang1, due to his frequent Galactica breaks.

[Mustang1]

Nietzshe Nietzshe:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Sneezy St. Luci likely thinks that indentured servitude meant they wore false teeth. What a dumbshit.

Do you even know what an indentured servant was?? If so, please explain to a dummy like myself. Thank you.

I am amazed we have individuals who compare indentured servitude with actual slavery. Incredible!

Firstly, that wasn’t your original post – I read it quickly last night, and the second part is an afterthought, which suggests you had to wiki “indentured servant” because you, in your boundless ignorance, had absolutely no ideas what it meant.

Now, say you’re sorry to Shep or he’ll call the Gods of Kobol and they’ll do the rest. You wouldn’t what that, Captain Starfuck, would you?

[ShepherdsDog]

Fuck the Gods of Kobol, I'm going Lovecraftian on his cognitively challenged ass

[BartSimpson]

Nietzshe Nietzshe:

During Hitler's rise to power, the USA never even entered his mind. To Germans of the day, the USA were nobodies.

A misconception that cost them, the Italians, and the Japanese the war.

[bootlegga]

Wullu Wullu:

What this thread needs is for Harry Turttledove to lean into this topic. For anyone that has not read him, he does alternative history novel series. Some on the outlandish side ( aliens invade during WWII and the effects that has ), some very probable ( the North did not get a copy of Lee's plans and Gettysburg went to the south ). Both of these series come across as completely believable ( even the aliens )

He could do a fantastic job with this topic. Well this reminds me of him so time to start reading the books again.

Yah, he's a fantastic 'What if' author. I really enjoyed the 'In the Balance' and 'Colonization' series, as well as his 'Darkness' (essentailly WW2 but with magic and dragons) series.

I think if the American Revolution didn't happen, you could have wound up with essentially a very large Canada, with a Quebec/Acadian North and English south. Who knows, maybe the Louisana Purchase would not have happened and most of the continent would have turned out to be French (yikes!)...because without the Louisana Purchase, the American colonies could only expand so far west (to the Ohio Valley I if I remember correctly). I also agree that Mexico or Texas likely would have owned the US southwest. The only question is what happens in the Pacific Northwest.

[Nietzshe]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Nietzshe Nietzshe:

During Hitler's rise to power, the USA never even entered his mind. To Germans of the day, the USA were nobodies.

A misconception that cost them, the Italians, and the Japanese the war.

Actually the Italians were already a beaten foe long before the Americans entered the war thanks to the British. The Japanese and Germans counted on the American lack of balls to stay out of the war. They were correct for awhile. Had the USA not been protected by two major oceans one can be rest assured the USA would have stayed out of it.

[Nietzshe]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Nietzshe Nietzshe:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Sneezy St. Luci likely thinks that indentured servitude meant they wore false teeth. What a dumbshit.

Do you even know what an indentured servant was?? If so, please explain to a dummy like myself. Thank you.

I am amazed we have individuals who compare indentured servitude with actual slavery. Incredible!

Firstly, that wasn’t your original post – I read it quickly last night, and the second part is an afterthought, which suggests you had to wiki “indentured servant” because you, in your boundless ignorance, had absolutely no ideas what it meant.

Now, say you’re sorry to Shep or he’ll call the Gods of Kobol and they’ll do the rest. You wouldn’t what that, Captain Starfuck, would you?

You still have not posted exactly what an indentured servant is and why you compare one to an actual slave. If you compare the two that makes you ignorant which is something I gathered long ago. I do not ever recall a slave signing a contract. Indentured servants did. You expect them to receive passage to the New World for free? Christ on a stick! Another wonderful liberal here who thinks everything should be handed to people. No wonder the corporations are tightening their grip. It is attitudes like his who force the corporations to look outside of the New World for workers.