[Rev_Blair]

Most of Bush's alternative energy plans are based on fossil fuels, Twila. When you start digging at his hydrogen plan, it turns out to be a huge deal for the oil industry. It depends on electricity made from oil, and a lot of the hydrogen is planned to be derived from fossil fuel bases for "infrastructure" reasons.

Throw in the massive underfunding and lack of incentives Bush has provided, and there really isn't an alternative energy plan.

[Robair]

$20B in energy tax breaks

Republicans say energy bill would boost production, jobs, but Democrats see few benefits.
November 15, 2003: 11:10 PM EST



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican lawmakers unveiled Saturday a massive energy bill loaded with $20 billion in tax breaks they said would create U.S. jobs while boosting oil, natural gas, coal and nuclear production.

The legislation, mostly written in secret by Republicans, carries a higher price tag than the $16 billion in energy industry benefits proposed in an earlier version.


Republicans acknowledged the cost was higher, but said it was a small price to pay for an energy package that would create nearly 1 million American jobs.

But the Teamsters Union criticized the draft bill for failing to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) to drilling, which would have created high-paying union jobs.

"First the Republican Congress and White House gave workers a jobless recovery, and now they want to give us a jobless energy package," James Hoffa, the union president, said.

Democrats have said the bill's tax breaks plus other provisions will cost about $115 billion over a decade, and any new jobs would be years away. Democrats refused to comment on the draft energy plan Saturday, saying they were still waiting for Republicans to release tax provisions of the bill.

A special bipartisan committee of Senate and House lawmakers will meet Monday afternoon to debate and finalize the legislation. While the full House is likely to approve the bill later in the week, Senate Democrats have threatened to filibuster, or talk to death, the energy bill if it includes too many industry giveaways.


The draft bill, stretching more than 1,200 pages, included incentives for all kinds of energy.

Oil and natural gas companies would benefit from a provision easing royalty payments for drilling deep wells on federal leases in the Gulf of Mexico. There would also be loan repayment guarantees and other help to build a $20 billion pipeline to ship natural gas from Alaska to the Midwest.

In a victory for environmental groups and many Democrats, the bill does not contain provisions for drilling in ANWR, or a government inventory of oil reserves off the Atlantic and Pacific coasts where drilling is banned.

The draft legislation also promotes more electric generation from wind, solar and other renewable sources.

But the bill lacks any measures to tighten U.S. automobile fuel standards or reduce emissions of heat-trapping carbon dioxide.

The legislation also orders the government to increase the size of the U.S. emergency oil stockpile by 50 percent to 1 billion barrels, ensuring a bigger cushion for the American economy in case of a disruption in oil imports.

One of the most contentious measures would shield makers of fuel additive MTBE from product liability lawsuits retroactive to Sept. 5, wiping out most cases already filed -- including one by New Hampshire's attorney general.


MTBE is a suspected carcinogen that has tainted underground water supplies in thousands of U.S. cities. The bill would ban MTBE by 2015, but producers would collectively receive $250 million a year to help them covert to other lines of business.

The bill will also require ethanol production to stretch U.S. gasoline supplies to double to 5 billion gallons by 2012.

Another closely watched provision in the bill would set electricity reliability standards nationwide to help prevent future power blackouts. However, it would delay until 2007 the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission's plan to put the nation's utilities under the control of regional grid operators.

Another measure in the bill would offer tax credits to encourage new nuclear power plants.

The White House said it supported the Republican bill.


My two cents:

I live in the US, everywhere I look there is an abundance of SUV's. I don't mean the little jimmys etc. I am talking about suburbans, cadillacs and H2's! Next year will be the release of a 'more affordable' humvee, that's right, now the average schmuck will be able to get his hands on the biggest fuel pig ever produced. All the roads (even backroads) in Kentucky are paved. I drive a little Mitsubishi car and there isn't anywhere in this state I can't go. If I visit freinds out in Kimberly, the rockies, where people might actually NEED a 4X4 to get around, I see an abundance of VOLVOS! They work so hard to increase supply, they are concentrating on the WRONG VARIABLE in that equation.

[Rev_Blair]

Just follow the money back, Robair. Where do these guys get their cash? Oil companies, car makers (who make much larger profits on huge gas pigs) and just about everybody else willing to fuck over the environment for a couple of bucks gives a lot of money to Republicans. This is the pay off.

[Robair]

Right, but the fact remains that the public has a choice as to which vehicle they are going to purchase. I've been thinking about the differences I see between the culture here and back home. Have you seen bowling for Columbine? If not, he comes up with the theory that the reason for the excess violence in America is paranoia (sp?). His theory stated that if you keep the public scared, they consume. Well, if you ask people down here why they nead a gun (or four or ten) it's to "protect me and mine." And the reason a lot of people say they drive the big SUV its to "protect me and mine." The difference in vehicles between here and Sask or AB is really staggering. I see a different H2 driving around every week and I'm in a small town! Could americas trend toward bigger vehicles be more paranoia at work? It fits if you ask me.

[Rev_Blair]

That has a lot to do with it. Look at the duct tape and plastic debacle a few months back. Hell, look at the way they sell pharmaceuticals. Toenail fungus? Just something else to be afraid of.

I don't understand how that can make a real difference in cultures though. We get the same crap up here...listen to an Alliance speech sometime. We don't buy into it though. There's something that runs deeper in the American psyche that causes the paranoia. They want to be sold the guns and the Hummers and the idea that everybody is out to get them. I don't hear a lot of Canadians saying that Kyoto is a leftist plot to steal their money, for instance...it's a huge part of the Republican's platform.

I'm not sure why American's are so prone to that particular line, but I am sure that those who seek to control things know that paranoia exists and are doing all they can to exploit it.

[Robair]

Back to the original topic of this thread:

$1:

Canada talks of possible trade war as Bush prepares to visit


OTTAWA (CP) - Just a week before George W. Bush arrives in Ottawa, the federal government is warning of a possible trade war with the United States.

Trade Minister Jim Peterson announced Tuesday that he is launching consultations with Canadians on possible trade retaliation. It's because the U.S. has failed to comply with a World Trade Organization ruling on the Byrd Amendment

The amendment, which allows U.S. companies to receive anti-dumping and countervailing duties collected from foreign competitors, was found to be illegal under the WTO.

"Clearly, retaliation is not Canada's preferred option, but the U.S. has failed to live up to its international trade obligations and repeal the Byrd Amendment," Peterson said in a release

"These consultations will help us assess what actions Canadians want us to take. . . . We want to hear from Canadian businesses themselves on the next steps that should be taken."

Canadian softwood lumber producers have paid over $3 billion US in cash deposits to date. Small amounts of softwood lumber duties were disbursed to American firms in 2003 and about $1 billion US annually could begin to be disbursed starting in 2007.

On Aug. 31, the WTO ruled that Canada, Brazil, Chile, the European Union, India, Japan, Mexico and South Korea could retaliate by up to 72 per cent of the annual anti-dumping and countervailing duties on exports disbursed to U.S. companies in a given year.

On Nov. 10, Canada joined in submitting to the WTO the final retaliation authorization request, which is required by the WTO before any retaliatory measures can be applied

The request is to be considered at a meeting of the WTO on Wednesday and automatically authorized unless it is unanimously rejected by WTO members.

Interested parties are asked to comment by Dec. 20, through the International Trade Canada website at www.byrd-consultations.gc.ca .

Article

Canadians are going to have to yell awefully loud before a guy like Martin gets the picture. He'd better listen, heading a minority government and all...

[Rev_Blair]

The calls for linkage of trade issues are gertting louder all of the time. The only ones not yelling for it are the far right of the Liberal Party and the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives. If Martin wants to get votes away from the right and not lose them to the left, he'd bloody well better do something about this.

Send your MPs letters girls and boys. They, for the first time in a very long time, listening.

[Scape]

I think Martin can maintain his fragile minority with the conservatives better than he can with the NDP/Bloc. Cutting off the US is not an option by the current government and never will be. World support is lip service. It's one thing to be pissed off and quite another to actually do something. As the market deteriorates we will get more and more control over our own country once again. The real problem in letting our current leaders bargain our position away before the big cash out.

Economic `Armageddon' predicted by Stephen Roach, chief economist at Morgan Stanley

Foreign investors souring on Wall Street

$1:

In September and August, foreign investors were net sellers of $5.9 billion of American stocks, according to the latest Treasury data available. These two monthly declines highlight a sharp slowdown in inflows from abroad since the beginning of the year, when the 12-month total through February was $58 billion. In September, the 12-month inflow had dropped to $18.7 billion.

[Rev_Blair]

I don't know, Scape...the Liberal Party is rumoured to have some pretty deep divisions in it, mostly over our relationship with the US. It seems to me that putting public pressure on MPs could make Martin nervous enough to at least consider linkage.

[Scape]

L-20 gaining steam

Wow Godz, do you ever hate I really pity you. The Liberal Party has some divides in it but that is why the L-20 is taking shape, something like an economic version of the Kyoto agreement but more along the lines of the G8 minus the US. This will keep the liberals under one tent and act as an effective way to retry multi-lateral approach without directly dealing with the US or the UN. This agreement (and others similar to it) will probably phase out the UN and end up dividing it into regions of agreement. Not a perfect solution but it is the best we have at the moment.

[Rev_Blair]

I don't think deals like this will phase out the UN, Scape...nothing else is as inclusive as the UN and nothing else has as wide a mandate. I do think the L-20 and similar things are an excellent mechanism to tie trade to things like human rights and the environment though, I'm just unconvinced that Martin can be effective in doing that.

I wish Martin would have reached some sort of agreement with da Silva on the aero indusrty. Canada and Brazil both accuse each other of providing too much money to the in unfair ways. Both are right...we do and they do. Maybe they'll discuss it when da Silva comes here to visit.

On the US front...Godz, the WTO has given us and others the go ahead to place retaliatory tariffs on the US because they US refuses to play by the rules. Da Silver told Martin that retaliatory action against the US would be a good way to protect Canadian industry yesterday. There seems to be a concensus building that the US needs to play by the rules or face the consewuences.

[RUEZ]

Godz46 Godz46:

Nothing will give me more pleasure than seeing Canada cut off its relations with the US. Alberta would seperate as it would mean then end of its prosperity through oil sales to the US. And from that "have not" provinces would'nt be able to balance their budgets without money from Albertans. Exports (which Canada despertaly depends on for economic advancement) would drop big time, causing a huge recession. And my favorite, the anti-American loudmouths in the Liberal and NDP parties will be gievn a huge boot in the ass.

Hey man in a different post you said you didn't hate Canada but I think this post show's your true colours. Am I wrong?

[Rev_Blair]