[JustKate]

See site to see chart about all areas:

http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/simdiff.htm

Summary:

Immigrants: We can see that Canada allows many more migrants per capita, than the US. However, the US has many more illegal immigrants, which obviously cannot be measured. This has to do with government policy. It is much easier to immigrate to Canada than the US. This is good for Canada in some ways, because it makes sure the population and economy grows and stays robust. However, when you make it easy to immigrate to your country, you make it easier for criminals, smugglers and terrorists to come to exploit it. Relations have been strained in this area between the US and Canada, because Canada has been accused of being a hotbed for terrorists. A good example of this being when terrorists tried to cross the Canada/US border with bomb making materials during year 2000 celebrations.

Ethnic groups: The US Census Bureau and Statistics Canada classify ethnic groups quite differently, and therefore a true comparison between the two is difficult. However, Statistics Canada does record "Visible Minorities" and "Aboriginals" so some inferences can be made. The US statistic above was calculated by looking at "one race only" results and ignoring all races which could not be assigned to either: White, Black, Asian or Native American. Original data can be viewed from this link. The Canadian statistic above was calculated by classifying all Blacks as "Black", all South Asian, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Southeast Asian, and Filipinos as "Asian", all Aboriginals as "Native", and all others as "White". We can see according to this estimate that Canada has slightly more Whites, one sixth as many Blacks, over two times as many Asians, and over three times as many Native Americans, proportionally.

Religion: This difference is mainly due to high proportion of French-Canadian Catholics, located primarily in the province of Quebec. The Catholics of Quebec account for nearly half of all Catholics in Canada.

GDP: The gross domestic product; in other words, the amount of output of goods and services. It is well known that the US has the strongest economy in the world beginning since the post WWII era. Comparatively, the US has more than double the GDP of the second highest ranked country, Japan, which is just over 4.6 trillion. However, the statistic that really shows how well a country is doing is GDP per capita. In this category, the US is only second to the tiny land of Luxembourg. China, by contrast has a large GDP of over 1.8 trillion, but a very small GDP per capita of $1,290, which basically means it's a poor country to live in. Economics is obviously a complicated area, and there are many factors to consider, but one major factor that helps the US maintain its strength in the global economy, and in comparison to Canada in particular, is its large domestic market. If Canada were to join with the US, the internal market would only become even larger, and both Canadians and USAmericans would reap the rewards.

Military: One of the main reasons why the US spends so much on its military is that it is the economic leader of the world. Holding that place makes enemies of smaller, less wealthy countries and/or groups that oppose the fundamental beliefs of democracy and freedom that the United States stands for. For example, North Korea spends approximately 31% of its GDP on its military, while its people literally starve. Many other hostile countries do not publicly give out information on military expenditures. However, it is well known that countries such as Iran, Libya, and others are in the process of seeking or already possess nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. As the only remaining superpower in the world, the United States sees itself as obligated to try and keep peace and order. Many people may oppose actions that the US takes or has taken to fulfill that obligation, but if not for the US many aggressive land-hungry nations would be waging bloody wars everyday. Canada plays a part in keeping the peace, though its political support greatly outweighs its military contributions. Many First or Second World countries, and a few Third World countries have the ability to defeat Canada alone in a military engagement. However, Canada is one of the safest places in the world to live because the US is immediately west and south of it.

Representatives of Government: What the above figures illustrate, is that on a comparative level Canada has a much bigger government. Although it is debatable whether much of Parliaments back-benchers or the 105 un-elected Senators actually represent Canada, this does all cost the Canadian taxpayer much more than the US taxpayer. This is simply because Canada does not have the population base to justify such a huge government.

UN rating: The once much emphasized fact by many Canadian nationalists. Until recently Canada has been rated #1 by the UN. Beginning in 2003 UNDP report rated Canada as #8 overall, and the United States #7. Canadians and Americans alike shouldn't feel too bad about this. The United Nations is an organization which has very noble humanitarian causes, such as "ending world hunger", "eliminating racial and gender inequalities", "reducing the economical gap between the rich and poor" as well as others. These are all problems that if could be fixed, would make the world a better place. However, the HDI rating takes into account only three very simple characteristics of a country: Life Expectancy, Literacy/Enrollment and PPP. Hardly a basis for declaring the "best country in the world". It should also be noted the margin between the first ranking country and the tenth ranking country is 0.012, and between Canada and the US it is smaller than 0.001.

[JustKate]

Pros & Cons of a United North America



Pros for Canada:

There are many more benefits for Canada than the few stated below, but the major ones pointed out have real ramifications for the average Canadian citizen.

* Reduction in taxes by up to 50%.
* Elimination of red tape, customs and duties on trade (US is Canada's largest trading partner), and increase in trade/commerce within North America.
* Reduction in all costs for products that originate from the USA (73% of Canada's imports).
* Increase in industrial and consumer goods available (eg. machine parts, clothing & apparel, fruits), and thus reduce costs for the average consumer.
* Significant increases in funding on the federal level in all areas (eg. technological, medical, infrastructure, military)
* Increase in national security by means of a uniform continental defense perimeter, and elimination of border guards at the Canadian border, so that they may be used in more important areas (eg. airports, harbors and Mexican border).
* Increase in job opportunities in present-day Canada during transition stage (eg. tax & law specialists, city planners) and afterwards due to economic stimulus from merger.
* Increase in health care quality.
* Gain ability to choose a President in 'national' elections, and participate in a Triple-E Senate.
* Gain a seat in the strongest and most powerful nation on the planet, and thus have a voice within it.
* Reduce debt burden .
* Attain a stronger economy and nation.



Pros for USA:

The benefits for the USA are not as dramatic since the nation would be increasing its population base by only 10%. However, there are some considerable benefits for the average US citizen.

* Increase in tax base and domestic market by 11%.
* Increase land mass by 104%.
* Decrease in trade deficit by 10%.
* Elimination of red tape, customs and duties on trade (Canada is US' largest trading partner), and increase in trade/commerce within North America.
* Reduction in costs for all products which originate from Canada (Canadian products account for 19% of all US imports).
* Increase in raw resources available (eg water, natural gas, electricity, aluminum), and thus reduce costs for the average consumer.
* Increase cooperation and progress in research & development throughout the continent.
* Increase in national security by means of a uniform continental defense perimeter, and elimination of border guards at the Canadian border, so that they may be used in more important areas (eg. airports, harbors and Mexican border).
* Increase in labor market available to employers (no more working visas required for Canadian workers).
* Increase in military manpower available.
* Create more unity within America, and bring Alaska into the contiguous US.
* Attain a stronger economy and nation.



Cons for Canada:

One disadvantage is being the number one world power. Being number one yields many benefits, but also draws attention towards you.

When Canadians travel abroad, many people have friendly or ambivalent feelings towards them based on their nationality. This is not because Canadians are better people. It is simply due to the fact that Canada has a small population that is not nearly so well known across the globe. For many people outside North America, the perception of Canada is a land full of many trees, beautiful water and a population of a few million lumberjacks and Eskimos. However, when USAmericans travel abroad, many people outside North America assume to know all about America through Hollywood movies and television. There is also a tendency for some to dislike Americans for the actions of their politicians whom hold such great power and influence over nations of the world. They resent the United States being the wealthiest nation in the world with the mightiest military, complete with neutron bombs and stealth bombers. So, becoming the big kid on the block may gain you some respect, but also some animosity.



Cons for USA:

Although Canada has a very affluent society with many college graduates, there is also a portion of the population who lives on the welfare system. This portion of the population is larger per capita than comparison to the US. Canada also has a linguistic divide; Quebec has often been the albatross around Canada's neck, tearing apart the country with radical demands. However, if Quebec were to sign on to the US Constitution such issues would finally be put to an end.

[Tman1]

If this thread isn't bait for YankGreat, I don't know what is.

[SireJoe]

......Canada....join.....america.....No fucking way in hell. Sorry, but I am CANADIAN and would NOT have it any other way at any time. Ever. Period.

[Canadaka]

this will never happen, especial in my lifetime, because i will die fighting this! Vive Le Canada

Canadians and Americans may seem alike, but as a nation and politcaly we are a lot different.

I could not stand being part of the American military industrial complex, the imperialism, neo-conservatism and there lack of socialism.
Plus I have great respecty for Canada's historical past and connection to the monarcy. We cannot keep the queen and connection to the monarcy and commonwealth while being part of the USA.

This is one thing you will find both liberal types and conservative types are both against, maybe for different reasons though.

[ShepherdsDog]

Funny, there are currently members of the Commonwealth that are republics and don't have the queen as their head of state. While I don't want to see Canada become a part of a United States of North America, I have to disagree about the vast majority of Canadians and Americans being that different. The American Democratic Party has many members that would be right at home within the NDP fringe as well as in the mainstream Liberal Party. Their day to day concerns are the same as ours. It's because that we are so similiar that some people get frustrated.

[Banff]

Interesting find Kate ... I'm always a fan/sucker for statistcs . Thanks

[Canadaka]

im not saying that day to day and peoples normal concerns are different, im saying the politcs and a nation as a whole we are different. Our history is different, how we portray ourselfs to the rest of the world and behave as a global citizen is different. I don't like the US's different role & history.

I cannot deny that some day this may happen, the whole world might be seperated into large regional zones. But by the time that day comes the US or Canada will not be the same as they are now. And I think this day as a long time to come. The reason I say this is most sci-fi's portray this kind of future, where the whole earth is one central government of sorts, like in Star Trek. I really think the only thing that could bring the world closer to this type of thing is a non-terrestrial threat.

[Canadaka]

oh and as far as that linked chart, I think the economic figures are higher for Canada now, the data is outdated.

[ShepherdsDog]

Canadaka Canadaka:

im not saying that day to day and peoples normal concerns are different, im saying the politcs and a nation as a whole we are different. Our history is different, how we portray ourselfs to the rest of the world and behave as a global citizen is different. I don't like the US's different role & history.

I cannot deny that some day this may happen, the whole world might be seperated into large regional zones. But by the time that day comes the US or Canada will not be the same as they are now. And I think this day as a long time to come. The reason I say this is most sci-fi's portray this kind of future, where the whole earth is one central government of sorts, like in Star Trek. I really think the only thing that could bring the world closer to this type of thing is a non-terrestrial threat.

You seem to be basing your opinion of Americans, in general, on the actions and beliefs espoused by the Bush administration. There are more Americans who disagree with his views than there are Canadians in total. The policies of the Bush administration aren't truly representative of all Americans, many yes, but not even a simple majority of them. Even within the Republican Party they are divided over his approach. Hopefully we'll see a minimalization of the Christian Right if McCain gets in.

[Canadaka]

not so, what im mostly refering to is the US forgien policy, which since the end of WW2 through democratic or republician goverments has taken a path I and I think a lot of Canadians and people around the world don't agree with or support.

[fatbasturd]

The farther south you go the more radical the US politicans and population get...you are both right (Canadaka / Shep) to a certain degree.
I like Canadaka have no wish to ever become part of American policy....but then again neither do a lot of Americans nowdays.
As for the general population they are not a bad lot in general
they face the same lifestyle issues as we do ....As much as I trash Mr Harper...I can say I am over joyed that It's not a Bush that I have to deal with.

[VitaminC]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Funny, there are currently members of the Commonwealth that are republics and don't have the queen as their head of state. While I don't want to see Canada become a part of a United States of North America, I have to disagree about the vast majority of Canadians and Americans being that different. The American Democratic Party has many members that would be right at home within the NDP fringe as well as in the mainstream Liberal Party. Their day to day concerns are the same as ours. It's because that we are so similiar that some people get frustrated.

BS....

Most democratics are equivalent to Canadian Conservatives.

American Conservatives consider Canadian Conservatives to be no better than the American democrats......

Most American democrats are against the right for all people to get married. And they all sat around and never said a word while the Bush gov't racked up an unheard of debt, and tore apart their country in numerous other ways....

Do you really think Liberals and NDPers would ever be quiet like that in Canada? In the U.S. it is considered anti-America to oppose or question a sitting president during a time of war.....In Canada it is the official job of the "official opposition" to oppose and question the government constantly....

I think most Canadians would go to war to protect ourselves from America before we would ever go to war against a place like Iraq.

We'd lose of of course...But hey, its better to be dead than an American.

[JustKate]

In all seriousness, the way things are escalating over the border problems in the US, the demand for resources, I can foresee things going one of two ways in the future......either the two countries becoming more unified or more divided. What direction do you see us moving towards?

[SireJoe]

Hopefully away....far far away. I would rather not get pulled into any more of thier web. If at all possible by whatever means Im thinkin it would be great for Canada to change its trade to include a lot more countries as to not depend so much on the one just below us. I have never liked the idea that our economies are so closely tied. If they ever got messed up one way or another it could pull us in way to fast.