[Gonzo]

No, she should of said 51% of Americans are bastards. God forbid someone say whats on there mind in the Liberal government. Martin wants drones, not people with opinions. Martin is weak, the missile defence plan is for the coalition of the idiots. The right wing have loud mouths who shot off about gay pride parades, offending a large group of people. Though Parrish was no Trudeau, she does have the guts to say what others are afraid to say. Why do we elect leaders if they wont lead? Do we want leaders who are too weak to speak there minds? I know the conservatives do.

[Ruddeger]

Do not mistake her stupidity for guts. There is a difference between being brave enough to say something everyone is afraid to say, and being smart enough to know how to say it. If she really wanted to make a difference, she could've gone about a different way. To publicly chastise American voters, she single handily became the voice of Canada, a voice that is not that has fallen upon deaf ears as of late.

I have more to write, but I gotta rip to a meeting.

[Scape]

No, it isn't that simple. Parrish was fired for telling in an interview that she had no loyalty to her party, that they could all go to hell and that Martin couldn't do anything about it and if he did he would just look weak. She was playing political brinkmanship and was called on it. As for the anti-American comments, she has been in the house of commons for four elections now, it's not like it's a surprise she has a thing for the Bush administration. She attacked the US night and day and not a thing was done but when she attacked her own party she was shown the door it was that simple. As for your idea of trade with the US, your dam right we do a lot of trade with the US and we have been given the shaft and will continue to do so until we can actually stand up the the US and DEMAND our trading rights and we are not going to do that with the collaborator mentality of the mainstream parties. They are there for their benefit not Canada's and will gleefully sell this country down the river if they get 5 bucks out of the deal. We desperately need to play hardball and we have a bunch of Charlie Browns at the helm for negotiations. We need to show them that if we are going to continue to do business with them that we indeed MEAN business and not beg for what is rightfully ours only to have it overturned by some backwater senator. We should have kicked the US ambassador out of the country for that Billion dollar stunt. I don't see that happening under Martin or that sell out Harper.

[Rev_Blair]

$1:

Who the hell says we're whining about it?

I do and I do it with a reason. Read your comments.

$1:

We're producing valid arguments and you find its necessary to make underhanded comments.

Nothing underhanded at all. It's right out there in the open for all to see. If you don't want to be called on it, then don't do it.

$1:

Now as far as Parrish advocating for a level playing field, thats fine, but that is not the issue.

That is exactly the issue.

$1:

The issue here were her defamatory remarks aimed not just at a leader of a nation, but the whole nation itself. If GWB wants to call Chretien "Dino", thats fine.

What the hell are you talking about? A second ago you were talking about a level playing field, now you're saying that it's fine for Bush to call our PM names, but that any reciprocation is wrong.

$1:

Chretien wasn't the best representative of Canada either, nor was he too keen on Bush.

Chretien won his elections in majority governments and the country prospered under him. If he would have run again in the June election, he likely would have won another majority. I'm not a fan of Chretien. He didn't stand up for Canada enough, but he was head an shoulders above of Paul Martin and Stephen Harper isn't even fit to clean Chretien's toilets.

$1:

But at least Bush didn't summarize all Canadians as "Dino", or bastards for that matter.

Countless people with close associations to George Bush have have characterised us as communists and terrorists. The have attacked our leaders, our national character, our national institutions, and our way of life. Don't sit there and deny that and don't you dare make up excuses for them.

$1:

Thats the point. Parrish categorized the whole of the United States, which from what I read in other posts, you hate people being put in groups as a whole. So why should Parrish get let of your hook? Because you agree with her? I hope its not that simple.

I told you to check the context of her remarks. Apparently you never did. You've taken some sound bites, ignored the context, and are now saying something inaccurate as a result.

$1:

Do not mistake her stupidity for guts.

It isn't stupidity to speak out when see a problem.

$1:

There is a difference between being brave enough to say something everyone is afraid to say, and being smart enough to know how to say it.

Parrish was forthright and eloquent. I hope she remains so. George Bush is an idiot, a moron, war-like, and a danger to all of us. The truth is ugly sometimes, but that's no reason not to speak it.

$1:

To publicly chastise American voters, she single handily became the voice of Canada, a voice that is not that has fallen upon deaf ears as of late.

They re-elected a man who thinks god appointed him president. They deserve to be chastised.

[Deancoo]

Scape said:

$1:

As for your idea of trade with the US, your dam right we do a lot of trade with the US and we have been given the shaft and will continue to do so until we can actually stand up the the US and DEMAND our trading rights and we are not going to do that with the collaborator mentality of the mainstream parties.

Common... We're going to "stand up to the US and DEMAND", and that's going to get us where? Throw in a few insults, and that'll help too right?

As a proud Canadian, what I'm seeing makes me sick. We're being squeezed (economically), no different than any other country the US has needed to fall in line. At some point these issues (such as soft wood lumber or BSE) will become bargaining chips to gain access to northern resources or signing onto the revived Regan "Star Wars" initiative. Now if we can agree that this is the reality. How does Canada make progress? Confrontation? Collaboration? At the very least I feel we need to present the guise of collaboration, and maybe throw in some of their own tactics. But let's be realistic here, the tail can't wag the dog.

Parrish’s comments and actions don’t help us on the US relations front. And I think we can all agree that they were less about opening peoples eyes, than some sort of posturing for which only Parrish truly understands the reason.

d

[Deancoo]

Rev_Blair said:

$1:

Countless people with close associations to George Bush have have characterised us as communists and terrorists.

I'd like to see some sources here.

d

[Gonzo]

If Canada and every other country that is upset with the US stood up and demanded what they wanted, America would have to fall into line, not Canada. America has demonstrated many times that they will not collaborate with anyone. They only set out to get what they want and that does not make for a good trading partner. They've been dragging there heels on the soft wood lumber dispute for over two years. Now we have to give in and sign on to star wars? I dont think so. They are wrong, we are not. It seems like we cant bargin with the US so people like Parrish are frustrated at seeing our leader willing to kiss ass to mend things with the US. How can any Canadian be proud of that?

[Rev_Blair]

$1:

I'd like to see some sources here.

If you've had a tv set and/or a radio for the last four years, you've seen and heard it happen.

[Deancoo]

Just so we're clear, I'm not advocating we sign onto missile defense. I was just outlining the situation that I feel our politicians have before them.

Ok Gonzo, I'll agree with you that they are wrong and we are right. Now what do we do? Considering we are a fraction of the US by just about any measure you can come up with, what actions do we take that won't ultimately cause our own demise?

[Deancoo]

Rev_Blair,

Common dude, you can't just throw around that kind of accusation without something behind it. We've got to stay disciplined otherwise we'll start sounding like some of those kooks from the right.

[Rev_Blair]

Okay, there were the snubs to Canada on Bush's first election and after 9-11. Think that was an accident? Think again. The man has numerous advisors to advise him on protocol and a Canadian was on his sppech-writing team when he forgot to thank us after 9-11. He was sending a very definite message.

Fox news, Bob Novack and numerous other right-wing commentators with connections to the Bush regime have gone after Canada and it's politicians very openly and very clearly. The way the Bush regime uses the right-wing press is very definitely to send signals. That's been noted by people who make a living analyzing the Canada-US relationship.

Members of the Bush government, especially in the trade area, have referred to our institutions as being "creeping socialism" and even "communism". Among them has little Bobby Zoellick...a man with much more influence than Ms. Parrish.

Go look it up Dean. There has very much been a pattern of attacks on Canada by high-ranking US officials. It started well before 9-11, continued through Afghanistan, picked up when we refused (quite rightly) to join the illegal invasion of Iraq, and continues to this day.

That pattern runs from the very top right down to the bottom.

[Gonzo]

Sure Deancoo, we have a smaller population, but not going along with the US wont cause our demise. Bush has been in power for one whole term, Chretian was the opposite of him, and we are faring better then they are. The US is a sinking ship. Why should we go down with it? Our economy is better, we are not getting our asses kicked in a war that the whole world is against, we havent pissed off the whole world. America talks alot of talk, but they are now realising they need allies (because they have very few). We should impose our demands and not feel threatened by them. Republicans always have a secret agenda. They dragged there feet on soft wood and beef just to bully us into missile defence and "punish" us for not going into Iraq. If we let them do that now they'll do it again and again just to get what they want.

[Scape]

Deancoo Deancoo:

Common... We're going to "stand up to the US and DEMAND", and that's going to get us where? Throw in a few insults, and that'll help too right?

As a proud Canadian, what I'm seeing makes me sick. We're being squeezed (economically), no different than any other country the US has needed to fall in line. At some point these issues (such as soft wood lumber or BSE) will become bargaining chips to gain access to northern resources or signing onto the revived Regan "Star Wars" initiative. Now if we can agree that this is the reality. How does Canada make progress? Confrontation? Collaboration? At the very least I feel we need to present the guise of collaboration, and maybe throw in some of their own tactics. But let's be realistic here, the tail can't wag the dog.

Parrish’s comments and actions don’t help us on the US relations front. And I think we can all agree that they were less about opening peoples eyes, than some sort of posturing for which only Parrish truly understands the reason.

If it is making you sick why then are you saying we are being squeezed like every other country? Sounds like a blase attitude that would rather let the US force our lumber industry out of work and so weaken it that the National Treatment clause will expedite annexation, lose over 276,000 high paying manufacturing jobs and our wheat board (what we have to ensure that our farmers get a fair price for production on the world market) can be bargained away. These are not chips to be tossed aside! What are we getting in return? The right to play Oliver and beg, "Please uncle Sam, may I have some more?" Economic slavery is still slavery, do not grovel for what is the Canadian birthright. This is our country not theirs. You pathetic, defeatist attitude needs a swift kick in the ass. No we can no compete directly with an economy 10 times our size but neither do we have a debt that is 37 Trillion either. That ship is taking on water, why should we join in their reckless fiscal irresponsibility? Canada will make, and will only make, progress when it takes care of business by Canadians for Canadians. We have so many resources here that we ship down south and they sell it back to us the finished products when we have the skilled labour, resource and technology to do it ourselves at a profit. We could learn a great deal from China, Europe and Japan in dusting ourselves off and taking command of our own destiny. That is what we can do.

Parrish doesn't help our government suck up to the US, awww. It's long since past we started souring the milk. If they want to invade us and take our resources then at least have them declare war and let's get it on but I will not stand idly by as they suck the soul out of this country and ship our jobs south while we all end up working in call centers and end up as nothing but a glorified Puerto Rico. At least Parrish had the chutzpah to tell Bush where can get off. Martin can't afford to do that but he can't ignore the ire of Canadians who have had enough of the BS from south of the boarder for not supporting them. We HAVE supported the US in Afghanistan and we got bombed by them, we HAVE supported the US in the war on terror (See the flag on the neck of this bird?) and we have seized assets identified as organizations linked to terror and have even (regrettably) deported Canadians to the US for processing (and were Tortured). What did we get in return? Our beef industry is gutted, farmers are going out of business in record numbers and we have to provide 2/3rds of our oil and gas production? We are not a economic colony of the US to be used and abused. Defeatist attitudes are the problem, not the solution.

[human]

ofaolain ofaolain:

Parrish was kicked out of the Liberal Caucus today. Maybe one day martin will grow a spin.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national ... 41118.html

Funny spine analysis of the prime minister of Canada, silly me, and I thought we are all Canadian here, but then I have to meet the reengages who cheer to anyone with brainless skull as long as he/she insult Americans for the Trudeaunial papacy of the ol anti-American fame...


The funny part though, why did he wait until she insulted him, like he didn't smell the garbage bag trying to infuse the entire country with her idiocy until she sat in his lap?

[blubs]

Scape I just read the article you posted about the oil . It only reafirms my thinking that NAFTA was engineered for the good of the Americans and to hell with Canada and Mexico . What really got me was this .
" Redirecting Canadian oil to Canadians isn't permited " I am really beginning to get totaly pissed off by how the American govt is dictating to us what we can and cannot do . The softwood lumber fiasco is a great example of that we have pretty much won every round but those bastards say fuck you . So what good is NAFTA ? Wasn't supposed to benefit all three nations ?
As for "humans " sentence "we are all Canadians here " well yes we are I don't know about you tho buddy . I am not as well read as a lot of people here are al
lack of education as I had to leave school and earn a living . Something of which I don't think you know how to do . You refute every sensible comment made by certain members here . Mind you in your favor as this is a free country you do have the right to comment but back them up with intellgent fact ok .