[blubs]

I was just reading that there has been a case of mad cow desease in the states. I am wondering if the countries that boycotted Canadian beef will do the same with the states. Or will they be too afraid to say no. It is no different than what happened here in Canada. If nothing is done I will be damnd. one cow shut down a whole industry almost broke the farmers. It will be interesting to see what Martin will say about this.

[Gangrenous]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/BUSINESS/12/23/ ... index.html

I believe its quite clear here. Japan atleast for one has said they will put forth the same measures they put against Canada. That being said Canadian beef hasn't been allowed into Japan since it found a case of mad cow. Several others have refused US beef as well.

[BadAssBookie]

I understand that both Japan and Taiwan have closed their border and I say GOOD.

If Canadian cattlemen would stop trying to kiss up to the US they would see that this is the perfect opportunity to preserve market share at home and abroad. Canada should immediately close the the border, just as the US did to us.

[blubs]

Damn straight Bookie I agree close down the boarders now. Lets see how they like it when their livelihood is in the tubes. I hope the farmers here will cease the moment sadly though it is the wusses in Ottawa that have the final say.

[Rev_Blair]

Canada already has a protocol in place for this. American beef should be banned immediately until such time as they have shown themselves to be free of BSE. We've done it to other countries and other countries have done it to us.

What really needs to be done is that Canada and the US need to get together and shut down...completely and totally...the practice of feeding animal proteins to food animals. While you aren't supposed to feed ruminants to other ruminants at present, with a special emphasis on neural matter, feed containing ruminant protein is still legal in pig and chicken feed. Not all farmers are scrupulous though and feeding pig feed to cattle is a matter of economics in some places. On mixed farms it can happen by mistake fairly easily...a cow doesn't care what bag the food came out of, they just eat it.

My guess is that Martin will try to us this to swing a deal though..."We'll keep our border open if you re-open yours."

[Marlins75]

Nope, it's time to shut er down and let them feel the pain. Although knowing the Bush administration, they'll dump another 100 billion for the farmers, increasing their debtload skyward. What else is new? They borrow money like I use my Visa.

[figfarmer]

Nobody, except my sister, abuses their Visa that badly. When I first heard this story I thought it was just Sheila, mad because she didn't get a cabinet post, gone to Washington.

I dunno. I really think we should show that we're bigger than them and carry on business as usual. They'll be hurting bad enough anyhow.

[blubs]

In a way I agree with you Figfarmer. But the point is if we leave the boarder open. That will, in my opinion make us look like we are wusses and afraid to do anything.

[figfarmer]

I was always proud of Canada's reputation as a cool headed country that could keep it's national head and say no to a war that it thought was unjust, fight like Hell in a war it thought was just,(And get compliments from the enemy fighters on how nicely it waged war.), and keep peace wherever it's soldiers were sent; and a country that would do what was best for it's national reputation, not respond with tit-for-tat diplomamy. The only I know of that made us look like wusses was getting involved in those idiotic Gulf and Yugoslavian wars. From the story in The National Post on the way things are going in Kosovo a couple of weeks ago we have a lot to feel bad about there.

[Mukluk]

Canada blew its horn loudly when it claimed that the world was overreacting to a single isolated case of BSE. We are now putting our money where our mouth is by treating the US case in exactly the right manner.

At present there is a single suspected case, and once the English lab has confirmed, Canada will take appropriate - not protectionist or vengeful - action.

Top shelf all the way. Thank goodness Chretien still isn't in power or we'd likely be embarassed on a global scale by now with some offhand remark.

m

[blubs]

So Mukluk what you are saying is keep The boarder open to American beef but leave the Boarders close to our beef? Cause that is what I am hearing. Correct me I f am wrong and in all honesty I usually am. But wasnt it just one cow here in Ab that shut down the whole industry. And the whole world shuts us out. We are giving them the benefit of doubt. They didnt do that to us. I am truly sorry about all this I am the one who shouts keep an open mind I just cant in this case. And for that I am sorry.

[Rev_Blair]

Again, follow the protocols that are in place. That means shutting down the border from now until the US meets the same requirements we did internationally. Then open them back up. No big deal, except we need to get them and us to COMPLETELY ban feeding dead cows, sheep and even unicorns to herbivores.

This really isn't that complicated...a herbivore's digestive system is not meant to handle pathogens from meat. I don't give a flying fuck how much pull Cargill has in Congress or which factory farm contributed the most to Georgie. I don't care who Paul Martin is sucking on. The fact is that feeding cows to cows was a stupid idea from the start and feeding cows to pig and pigs to cows is no smarter.

[BadAssBookie]

With all due respect, I don't take my position based on what we said during our (continuing) crisis. I base in on - they shut their border down but fst to us. We should do the same to them. Call it just dessert. If Chretien was still in power that border would be closed tighter than a baby's ass. I say that would be a good thing.

Besides all this, there is the health component. We don' know where this cow came from, how it happened or basically anything. It would be irresponsible to allow that into our country at this point in time.

[Rev_Blair]

It certainly would be irresponsible to allow even a chance of BSE crossing back over the border.

If they meet the same criteria as us though, then we can re-open the border to their beef and still maintain the moral high ground.

Something we really should be looking at is the way cattle move around though and the way they are raised. It used to be that you built a herd by buying cows and keeping cows. You may have a had a bull or two in the field or you may have depended on artificial insemination. The only thing you sold at first was steers, almost always to slaughter since they can't breed. As your herd reached the desired size/quality, you would sell older or less desirable cows either to slaughter or to somebody else who was building a herd.

We now have a system where the farms are generally too big, cows are sold while still in their prime. Whereas the average cow would live out her life on one or two farms under the previous system, in today's system cows change farms like teenagers change jobs. Where cows used to eat grass and hay, generally supplemented by chop (ground grain...usually a lower grade); they get usually get supplemental feeds, often feeds with animal proteins mixed in. Those feeds sometimes contain bovine growth hormone (BGH). Cattle on the US factory farms are routinely given BGH.

Then there's the whole marketing thing. We import and export from the US, Austrailia, the EU (we can only export there as long as we can prove the cattle haven't been raised on American chemicals) and several other countries that would not need to import beef if they didn't export so much. It's a bizarre system. Why are we even discussing massive border closings when both the US and Canada produce more beef than they can consume?

One other point...would somebody please walk up to the next boor who suggests we can solve this problem with a policy of "shoot, shovel, shut-up" and boot him in the crotch until his brain shows signs of working?

[ChrissyP]

First off I am a Rancher in Northern Alberta. I feel that our border should have never been reopened in the first place. We are the only country in history to ever have their border reopened after a home grown case of BSE. I am so sick of other ranchers I know whining about how that cow should have never been shipped, how we should have put trade sanctions on the US to open the border etc. etc. The only reason our border has been opened as much as it has is because the US knew it was just a matter of time before they had there own case and they wanted to cover thier assets.
And to Rev_Blair. In response to the changes in the way cattle are raised I have this to say. It is well known in this industry you either get big or get out. Ranching is very much going the way of any other small bussiness. Being a small time rancher my husband and I are on our way out.
Oh yes as a cattlewoman I kiss nobody's ass thank you!