[BeaverFever]

$1:

Again, Police investigate crime and keep the peace. That is their charter. What part of the police charter lets them decide what company he keeps?

$1:

See earlier comments. Where do they have a mandate as to who the Rabbi hosts to speak at a synagogue?

You must be reading selectively. You are acting as if a private citizen like you or I was visited by the Police because of controvercial guest.

RATHER >> and pay attention here please >>> A uniformed public representative of a taxpayer-funded, public sector employer hosted a public event featuring a controversial topic contrary to the values and image of said taxpayer funded public sector employer. Said employer advised that if the individual wished to proceed with the event, the employer 'may' chosed to disassociate itself with him. They did not respond as law enforcers against a private citizen, they resonded as employers to an employee.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

RATHER >> and pay attention here please >>> A uniformed public representative of a taxpayer-funded, public sector employer hosted a public event featuring a controversial topic contrary to the values and image of said taxpayer funded public sector employer. Said employer advised that if the individual wished to proceed with the event, the employer 'may' chosed to disassociate itself with him. They did not respond as law enforcers against a private citizen, they resonded as employers to an employee.

I am familiar with the local RCMP here, and the Chaplain is known to me. He isn't an employee, he is a civillian volunteer member, and I suspect Rabbi Kaplan is too. He's most likely an employee of the synagogue, and volunteers his time to help the police.

But that is besides the point. When he is in the Synagogue, he is a free citizen, free to do what every other memeber of the police force is free to do off duty. Where does a police force have the mandate to dictate freedom of association and freedom of speech in Canada, contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

$1:

“Are we turning into one of those Third World countries where a police chief can pick up the phone and tell a free institution, in this case a religious institution, that you can not do this and you can do this?” he said by phone on Thursday.

“I’m speaking here as a Muslim. I’m terribly angry and upset that these people in the name of my religion and my tradition want to stop somebody else from speaking.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/02 ... cancelled/

[N_Fiddledog]

You are correct Doc. All eight chaplains of York police are volunteers.

Rabbi Mendel Kaplan in the founder and rabbi of Chabad@Flamingo Synagogue.

http://www.mississauga.com/news-story/3 ... r-speaker/

But hey, if Beaver wants to have fun with words he can get some instruction from the master. Here's Mark Steyn describing the same event from the other side.

" The York Regional Police department should be ashamed.

Indeed, they should.Thanks to the York Regional Police’s creepy and Orwellian “Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Bureau”, Canada is now a land where cops are sent round to synagogues to threaten rabbis – all in the name of “diversity” and “inclusion”, which must give the old-school fascists a laugh at their Monday-night poker game in hell. Jewish organizations north and south of the border ought to be up in arms about this. According to Brian Sibley, Inspector Ricky Veerappen, the head of the Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Bureau, is himself Muslim – which may or may not explain why he’s strutting about like the Ontario branch of Saudi Arabia’s Mutaween. Dig this example of a 21st century policeman’s thinking:

Veerappan apparently told Kaplan Geller’s speech “would not be endorsed by York Regional Police.”

(Since when is it up to the police to “endorse” speech?)

It’s not. And the fact that the York Regional Police think it is testifies to how deep runs the spongey, insinuating soft-totalitarian rot of “diversity”. In response to the controversy, the YRP issued a press release, full of the usual pansy evasions but revealing nonetheless:

Free speech is the right of every citizen and York Regional Police recognizes that. However, some of Ms. Geller’s previous comments clearly conflict with the values of our organization and our continuous work to enhance all relationships in our diverse community.


As I wrote on Thursday, it is not the job of a police force to enforce its “values”, but to uphold the law – without favor. If you want an ideological police force that enforces “values”, try Riyadh or Waziristan.

The York Regional Police should not have a “Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Bureau”. And, having no understanding of the proper role of a police officer in a free society, Inspector Ricky Veerappan should be compelled to seek alternative employment.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/34 ... compliance

[N_Fiddledog]

Pamela is not the only one speaking against the insanity of radical Islam who is having problems with the stifling of freedom of speech by Progs and Jihadis.

[N_Fiddledog]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

In other words, what you post above confirms that White Southerners were predominantly more racist and mmore conservative than other parts of the country and the Democrats, through various racist policies, were able to capitalize upon this an hold on to Southern support until the Democrats decided not to be racist anymore. At that time, Southerners flocked en masse to the Republican party.

Yes to the racist part of your first question, but there's more to it. White Southern Democrats were more racist than the current crop of White Southern Republicans. But the south was changing around the 1960s, and had been since the 20s. White southerners in general were becoming more in line with Republican thought. Some remained on board with Democrats as it was the last refuge of racists. Then Eisenhower came out with his civil rights act that protected black votes. The Democrats had to swallow the pill and become civil rights advocates if they ever wanted to win another election. Some Dixiecrats switched over to the Republicans, but they did not change Republican policy of equal rights and chances regardless of race. The Dixiecrats had to adapt to the non-racist policy of the Republicans, not the other way around. Republicans have never been racist. Most Democrats were for the first 200 years or so of their existence. They changed out of political expedience, but some say their policies of making minorities reliant, and managing them in projects in exchange for votes is little more than another sort of slavery. The Dems still want to be the "Mastahs", even if some of them are black now.

$1:

BTW what's an Islamophobe? Is that like when we saw the blood all over that wack-a-doodle's hands from trying to saw the soldier's head off on the London street in the middle of the afternoon, and as he ranted about how he did it for Islam, some of us preferred it didn't happen to us?

$1:

An Islamophobe is someone who thinks this behaivour is typcial of all Muslims and wants to persecute the entire population for the sins of their radical fringe.

Then why are you angry at Pamela? She doesn't do that. She opposes Jihadis and Sharia, not the entire population. Unless you are trying to make the point they are one and the same. You're not are you? Pamela actually helps Moslems, like women running from honor killings and such. She managed to put up a memorial for a murdered, Canadian, Moslem woman when there was all sorts opposition to her efforts.

[BartSimpson]

The Soviets had a great name for the type of people who like to be in charge of things like 'Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Bureaus': The Soviets called them "chekists".

While the term originally applied to members of the Cheka (secret police) it morphed over the years to mean anyone who used threats and intimidation to enforce the will of the Communist Party and its leaders.

These people are just bullies and thugs and they just want to silence any opinion that differs from their own. And to think that these shitbags are the ideological descendents of those who led the 'Free Speech Movement' of the 1960's!

In any case, the epithet of chekist is entirely accurate and I use it wherever and whenever it applies. Can't wait to hear some idiot complain about it, too.

[BeaverFever]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I am familiar with the local RCMP here, and the Chaplain is known to me. He isn't an employee, he is a civillian volunteer member, and I suspect Rabbi Kaplan is too. He's most likely an employee of the synagogue, and volunteers his time to help the police.

But that is besides the point. When he is in the Synagogue, he is a free citizen, free to do what every other memeber of the police force is free to do off duty. Where does a police force have the mandate to dictate freedom of association and freedom of speech in Canada, contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

$1:

“Are we turning into one of those Third World countries where a police chief can pick up the phone and tell a free institution, in this case a religious institution, that you can not do this and you can do this?” he said by phone on Thursday.

“I’m speaking here as a Muslim. I’m terribly angry and upset that these people in the name of my religion and my tradition want to stop somebody else from speaking.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/02 ... cancelled/

You are being obtuse here. I would expect this from NFiddle or Bart but I thought you were better than this. York regional did not threaten legal or criminal action, they were not acting a police here. They were acting as an employer...and yes being a volunteer for an organization doesn't mean you don't have an employer. He wore their uniform, he represented them to the public, he is subject to their rules and codes of conduct. His employer just happened to be a police force, but had it been the Salvation Army, Red Cross, Boy Scouts or the Bureau of Weights and Measures, or even a private company this same scenario can and does play out, especially when the employee represents the employer to the general public. York Regional didn't say he 'couldn't' host this speaker, he has every right to associate with whomever he wants. But York regional similarly has every right to NOT associate with anyone they don't want to.

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

You are being obtuse here. I would expect this from NFiddle or Bart but I thought you were better than this. York regional did not threaten legal or criminal action, they were not acting a police here. They were acting as an employer...and yes being a volunteer for an organization doesn't mean you don't have an employer. He wore their uniform, he represented them to the public, he is subject to their rules and codes of conduct. His employer just happened to be a police force, but had it been the Salvation Army, Red Cross, Boy Scouts or the Bureau of Weights and Measures, or even a private company this same scenario can and does play out, especially when the employee represents the employer to the general public. York Regional didn't say he 'couldn't' host this speaker, he has every right to associate with whomever he wants. But York regional similarly has every right to NOT associate with anyone they don't want to.

According to your line of thought then an employee of FOX News, for instance, could be told not to attend a Gay Pride parade in their off hours as that represents a value that FOX might not agree with. And you'd be just fine with FOX firing this employee for doing something in their off hours that's perfectly legal.

Are you telling me you're okay with this?

[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

You are being obtuse here. I would expect this from NFiddle or Bart but I thought you were better than this. York regional did not threaten legal or criminal action, they were not acting a police here. They were acting as an employer...and yes being a volunteer for an organization doesn't mean you don't have an employer. He wore their uniform, he represented them to the public, he is subject to their rules and codes of conduct. His employer just happened to be a police force, but had it been the Salvation Army, Red Cross, Boy Scouts or the Bureau of Weights and Measures, or even a private company this same scenario can and does play out, especially when the employee represents the employer to the general public. York Regional didn't say he 'couldn't' host this speaker, he has every right to associate with whomever he wants. But York regional similarly has every right to NOT associate with anyone they don't want to.

According to your line of thought then an employee of FOX News, for instance, could be told not to attend a Gay Pride parade in their off hours as that represents a value that FOX might not agree with. And you'd be just fine with FOX firing this employee for doing something in their off hours that's perfectly legal.

Are you telling me you're okay with this?

If he was the news anchorman then probably I would respect Fox's right to do so, even though I would disagree with their supposed 'values'...but not so much if the employee in question was the janitor and not a public figure. But honestly being a paid employee gives one MORE rights and protection under the law than a volunteer employee, I suspect.

[Thanos]

I'm wondering more why a rabbi who, out of all the so-called "holy" men, have actually earned a group reputation as learned, reasonable, and thoughtful people, is having anything at all to do with a psychopath like Geller in the first place. Jews are usually level-headed people. Seeing one high up in their religious community give credibility to a sky-in-falling hate-spreadingkrystallnacht personalty-type like Geller is kind of disappointing and disturbing.

[BeaverFever]

Thanos Thanos:

I'm wondering more why a rabbi who, out of all the so-called "holy" men, have actually earned a group reputation as learned, reasonable, and thoughtful people, is having anything at all to do with a psychopath like Geller in the first place. Jews are usually level-headed people. Seeing one high up in their religious community give credibility to a sky-in-falling hate-spreadingkrystallnacht personalty-type like Geller is kind of disappointing and disturbing.

She must also be an Israel-baiter.

[N_Fiddledog]

Did you know this is not the first time Lil Ricky has been harassing Rabbi Kaplan?

Apparently witnesses saw Rabbi Kaplan committing the crime of quoting from the bible in 2011. It seems there's a quote that refers to homosexuals as an abomination, or something. The organization that allegedly made the complaint weren't actually there during the sermon, but they knew somebody who knew somebody, or something, and that guy said the Rabbi was using his quote to speak against attending the gay pride parade. The Rabbi was alleged to allege in his sermon that homosexuality was spoken against in the Bible and in the Torah.

Lil Ricky got right on that one.




It would seem Jewish Orthodoxy had a religious problem with homosexuality. Lil Ricky was gonna fix that.

The Imam chaplain would never say such derogatory things concerning homosexuality, of course. I mean sure his guys might hang a few gay guys from cranes in Iran or Saudi Arabia, but they'd never do something as heinous as speak against the gay pride parade in Toronto. Surely not.

Here's the story translated into Prog so nobody says I'm biased.

http://dailyxtra.com/toronto/news/york- ... y-comments

Did you know Lil Ricky makes $142,000 a year for this sort of nonsense? Although I'm thinking the Muslim inspector must do more than just harass Rabbis, it's all I hear about him doing. In any case, God! York must be rich to be able to afford a Lil Ricky. I thought it was just a little suburb.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

You are being obtuse here. I would expect this from NFiddle or Bart but I thought you were better than this. York regional did not threaten legal or criminal action, they were not acting a police here. They were acting as an employer...and yes being a volunteer for an organization doesn't mean you don't have an employer. He wore their uniform, he represented them to the public, he is subject to their rules and codes of conduct. His employer just happened to be a police force, but had it been the Salvation Army, Red Cross, Boy Scouts or the Bureau of Weights and Measures, or even a private company this same scenario can and does play out, especially when the employee represents the employer to the general public. York Regional didn't say he 'couldn't' host this speaker, he has every right to associate with whomever he wants. But York regional similarly has every right to NOT associate with anyone they don't want to.

Expecting the police to do their job is being obtuse? What topsy-turvy world do you live in?

Threatening legal or criminal action or not, I ask again; Where does a police force have the mandate to dictate freedom of association and freedom of speech in Canada, contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

Since Inspector Ricky Veerappan fits your own definition: "He wore their uniform, he represented them to the public, he is subject to their rules and codes of conduct." this should have been an easy question to answer, the second or third time I asked it.

[desertdude]

Once again as always, the fringe use anything and everything they need to further their biased cause by blowing up and exaggerating whatever they can, and ofcourse never presenting the other side of the story as they might get called out if facts come into play. And usually it just blows up in their face and make them look like wet kittens out in the rain.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/02 ... cancelled/

$1:

Jewish activists say a Toronto-area rabbi has been pressured by an area police force to change plans to host a controversial anti-Islamist speaker, prompting accusations the force is squelching free speech.

Jewish activist which would usually translate into unrepresentative radicals and extremist like the latter mentioned Jewish Defense League one of whose goal is " "protect Jews from antisemitism by whatever means necessary" and listed as a terrorist organisation by the FBI for plotting and executing acts of terrorism within the United States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League

The police's stance on this and rightly so

$1:

Police dispute allegations that there were any threats of intimidation, saying instead that “a discussion” took place Tuesday between Insp. Ricky Veerappan, leader of the York Regional Police force’s diversity, equity and inclusion bureau, and Rabbi Kaplan, who is also a volunteer chaplain with the force. Insp. Veerappan said that during their discussion, the rabbi was presented with more information and a decision.

“If he had not cancelled the event – and again, that was his decision – then we would have had to re-evaluate his relationship with York Regional Police because it would be clearly be in contravention of the values of our organization,” said Insp. Veerappan.

“Our concern is that Rabbi Kaplan is also a representative of the police, he wears a police uniform, and some of the comments that have been attributed to Ms. Geller really posed a conflict situation for us at York Regional Police].”

Now how can you be part of something like the diversity, equity and inclusion bureau and host speakers like Spam Geller ? Would it be okay if Ricky brought it some Hamas leader to an event ??? ( Just imagine the knee jerking and twisted knickers on this forum then !!! )

Also the talk wasn't cancelled but relocated to the Toronto Zionist Center and Ricky's views.

$1:

York Regional Police said they would not discourage the event from taking place. “Ms. Geller is free to speak. The organization may move it to another location, that’s great,” said Insp. Veerappan.

But as raised earlier the bigger question to me would be why would a Rabbi working to bring people closer together invite such a tosser as Spam Geller in the first place.

So as always, once again. The lady doth protests too much ( over nothing ) me thinks.

[desertdude]

P.S : Why didn't the Canadian Govt stop this event in the first place

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/02 ... cancelled/

$1:

Meir Weinstein, director of the Jewish Defence League, the hardline group sponsoring the event, told the National Post he was shocked and mystified as to why the police got involved.

“They took a position against Pamela Geller – our right to have her to speak.”

George Galloway gets banned from entering Canada but yet a terrorist organisation can openly host events and have slime like Spam come and spew their hatred ???