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How Many CKA members are ANTI CANADIAN
Yes  14%  [ 5 ]
No  49%  [ 18 ]
Since the US is geometrically south it can continue to go that direction (Go to Hell)  30%  [ 11 ]
I love Canada but lets face it , I would rather eliminate the Border (It is to the Benefit of us all )  8%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 37

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:56 pm
 


DerbyX DerbyX:
Ahh but remember "lefty" and 'Liberal" are not the same.

Many "lefties" are NDPers.

You are very open minded about certain things associated with us "lefties".

Help us Tman1-kenobi, you are our only hope. 8)

I'm also very open-minded about certain things associated with righties. What would that make me? As long as you think I'm your only hope, that's all that matters. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:13 pm
 


Tman1 Tman1:
I'm not a lefty


Uhm, okay. I suppose you're a raging conservative if we compare you to Comrade Chekist IceOwl, but I've personally found you to be among the more thoughtful folks on the left side of the spectrum with the general flavor of your comments.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:14 pm
 


Tman is right down the middle or just a tiny bit to the left.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:20 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Tman1 Tman1:
I'm not a lefty


Uhm, okay. I suppose you're a raging conservative if we compare you to Comrade Chekist IceOwl, but I've personally found you to be among the more thoughtful folks on the left side of the spectrum with the general flavor of your comments.

Well, I'm pretty sure I'm not a lefty but I'll double check to make sure.......nope not a lefty. Some of my views may point to the left, some of my views may also point to the right and in this case, my views on the military heavily point to the ----------------> If that's not pointing right, maybe I have my eyes crossed. Besides, how many of my posts have you taken the time to read?

I understand your desire to quick label anybody not of your own line of thinking but come on, you don't know anything about me.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:34 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
I've seen plenty of anti-Canadianism here.

It's subtle and it's expressed in things like leftist-class warfare where some folks promote the politics of envy and want to "soak the rich" and the end result is that Canada has no large population of significantly wealthy people creating wealth in Canada.


Ken Thomson is #9 on the Forbes list of the world's wealthiest men. He is joined by 17 other Canuck with net worths of over a BILLION (that's USD not CDN BTW). That's proof that you can be wealthy here in Canada. I see nothing wrong with progressive taxation. It does not 'hurt' the rich to have them pay a million dollars in taxes on $5 million in income. Yes, they can move to the Caymans and live tax free if they desire, but I think Canadians as a whole tend to compassion and giving something back to the community.

I have absolutely NO problem with the almost $9,000 I paid in taxes last year because I know it goes to our roads, hospitals and schools, etc. For every dollar that is 'wasted' (personally I don't think so, but it's a popular right wing belief) on things like the gun registry; tens, if not hundreds are spent on good social programs like health care, education and infrastructure.

My opinion is if you don't feel like helping out those less fortunate than yourself, then feel free to move to the US. We don't need anymore selfish 'me' generation people in Canada than we already have...

$1:
The socialism at certain levels operates on the assumption that Canadians are incapable of managing their own affairs and those affairs must be managed for them by government...as if Canadians are all a bunch of children. Again, this is very subtle and the subliminal statement is that Canadians cannot be trusted to manage their own lives and if left to their own devices, would end up in personal ruin.


Plenty of people do end up in ruin when left to the whims of the marketplace. How many former Enron employees will see a dime from their pension plan? How many people are turned away from hospitals in the US because there HMO doesn't cover a certain procedure. How many people will die from lung cancer this year because an unscrupulous tobacco company hooked them on nicotine when they were young. I could go on and on...

Canadians can be trusted to run their own lives, but sometimes government regulation is necessary. I bet a lot of Californians still rue the day they deregulated energy. I know rural Albertans have gotten screwed by energy deregulation. Capitalism is in general a good thing, but capitalism run amok leads to monopolies that inevitably look out only for the almighty dollar not the citizens they serve.


$1:
The popular and fashionable anti-militarism is a not-so-subtle anti-Canadian sentiment in that what is effectively being said is that Canada isn't worth fighting for or defending. I'd state a name but you'll figure it out...anyhow, one of our lefties who is not Avro or Derby or Tman once said that he would not lift a finger to defend Canada in a war. THAT is anti-Canadianism.


It is only natural to question the loss of our men when they are placed in harm's way. People raked Mackenzie King over the coals for sending men to Hong Kong only a month before the Japanese attacked. Did that affect how we fought on D-Day? Nope.

Staying foccussed on some nebulous 'war on terra' takes resolve and not everyone necessarily supports going after the Taliban in the mountains of Afghanistan, when handing out candy and building schools in Kabul seems so much more like the the stereoype of 'peacekeeping'.

I guarantee you that if Canada was faced with a true life-and-death struggle, this 'anti-militarism' you speak of would vanish in an instant. Yes, maybe some people wouldn't volunteer to join up and fight, but they'd likely participate in some other fashion, like manufacturing or farming, or whatever. In wartime economy, there are no real 'conscientious objectors'. Most of the Canadian pacificists during WW2 worked on farms or factories helping out the war effort.

$1:
Anti-Americanism sometimes expresses a nascent anti-Canadianism. It's like the teenage girl who "hates" the pretty girl in her class at school - she's not really hateful of the other girl's good looks or social success, she's really just conscious of her own perceived shortcomings and calling the pretty girl a bitch and whatnot makes her feel better about herself without doing anything to actually improve herself. So the outward negative feelings can be a form of self-loathing.

I'm seeing less of the latter as Canada's economy improves and the CDN$ is starting to catch up with and pass the US$.


Finally, something we agree on. I have found on several occasions, that Canadian 'moral superiority' is very similar to that attitude you describe.

The thing that surprises me most about Canada is that we have a significant minority that looks to our neighbour and wishes to emulate them. This is an exception the world over.

The French don't gaze across the Channel and wish they could be more like the Brits. The Koreans aren't interested in being more like the Japanese, and the Egyptians don't wish they were more like the Libyans. Yes, many countries envy the US for its high standard of living and powerful economy and military, but I can think of no nationality that wishes they could give up being themselves and become someone else entirely.

And like I've said tons of times, if you don't like Canada because of taxes or left wing politics, move south and they are more than happy to accept you.

Now, I'm not trying to be an asshole and say get out right wingers, but being Canadian by saying, if you be more happy with less taxes and less government responsibility, then move to your utopia. If the majority of Canadians wanted lower taxes and private health care and such, we would already have it...

It's definitely NOT anti-Canadian to say I love the way the country is, please don't change it!


Last edited by bootlegga on Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:44 pm
 


I've seen plenty of anti-Canadianism here.

It's subtle and expressed in things like rightist-class warfare where some folks promote the politics of greed and want to "bleed the nation" and the end result is that Canada's resources are sold the highest bidder by the wealthy few while the ranks of the poor continue to grow. The penultimate statement is that Canada is not, nor ever will be, in full control of its wealth for the benefit of all its people. The desire for national unity is brought to its knees by the greed of the wealthy elite who control our nation.

The conservatism at certain levels operates on the assumption that all poor Canadians are poor because they are stupid and lazy and are getting exactly what they deserve. Again, this is very subtle and the subliminal statement is that poor Canadians should niether be seen nor spoken of in the hallow halls of government as a few of the wealthy may actually take pity on them.

The popular and fashionable anti-tolerance is a not-so-subtle anti-Canadian sentiment in what is effectively being said is that all Canadians should act and think like me. I'd state a few names but you'll figure it out. These people who call themselves Canadians have forgotten the values our great nation was founded and developed on and THAT is anti-Canadianism.

Anti-Americanism sometimes expresses a nascent anti-Canadianism, It's like the teenage girl who "hates" the powerful girl in her class at school - she's not really hateful of the other girl's power, she just lacks the confidence to stand up to her and take a lead role in her affairs without worrying about what the powerful girl thinks. So the outward negative feelings can be an outlet for a lack of self-confidence.

I'm seeing more of the latter as Canada's manufacturing and tourism sectors worry that as the Canadian dollar continues to climb against the US dollar due to the selling of our raw natural resources to other nations more manufacturing jobs and tourism dollars will flee south of the border or over seas.

It's all in the perspective. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:51 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
I've seen plenty of anti-Canadianism here.

It's subtle and it's expressed in things like leftist-class warfare where some folks promote the politics of envy and want to "soak the rich" and the end result is that Canada has no large population of significantly wealthy people creating wealth in Canada. The penultimate statement is that Canada is not, nor should it ever be, a wealthy country. The desire for national mediocrity or even national poverty is anti-Canadian.

The socialism at certain levels operates on the assumption that Canadians are incapable of managing their own affairs and those affairs must be managed for them by government...as if Canadians are all a bunch of children. Again, this is very subtle and the subliminal statement is that Canadians cannot be trusted to manage their own lives and if left to their own devices, would end up in personal ruin.

The popular and fashionable anti-militarism is a not-so-subtle anti-Canadian sentiment in that what is effectively being said is that Canada isn't worth fighting for or defending. I'd state a name but you'll figure it out...anyhow, one of our lefties who is not Avro or Derby or Tman once said that he would not lift a finger to defend Canada in a war. THAT is anti-Canadianism.

Anti-Americanism sometimes expresses a nascent anti-Canadianism. It's like the teenage girl who "hates" the pretty girl in her class at school - she's not really hateful of the other girl's good looks or social success, she's really just conscious of her own perceived shortcomings and calling the pretty girl a bitch and whatnot makes her feel better about herself without doing anything to actually improve herself. So the outward negative feelings can be a form of self-loathing.

I'm seeing less of the latter as Canada's economy improves and the CDN$ is starting to catch up with and pass the US$.


ROTFL

Still furiously shovelling the shit, eh Bart? [knight] :P


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:18 pm
 


I apologize for making the question so inclusive (for anyone who found it to be asked oddly) but I did it deliberatly . I thank everyone who participated and it helps me get a much better perspective on the Canada/US relationship threads . Unfortunately 14 votes are not that many but hopefully more will turn out . Thanks again ! :)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:52 pm
 


Well, considering the anonymous people who actually voted yes, accurate details will not be attainable on here. Were you expecting serious replies?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:54 pm
 


It didn't make any sense to me, so I ignored it...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:07 pm
 


Tman1 Tman1:
Well, considering the anonymous people who actually voted yes, accurate details will not be attainable on here. Were you expecting serious replies?


Either way I imagine the results will speak as a degree of truth.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:11 pm
 


Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:
It didn't make any sense to me, so I ignored it...


OKay , understandable ....

Do you personally have anti canadian sentiments ?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:01 pm
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
The thing that surprises me most about Canada is that we have a significant minority that looks to our neighbour and wishes to emulate them. This is an exception the world over.
You're right. No country in history has ever taken an idea from another and tried to apply it to their own. Certainly not the Mexicans. They've never tried to emulate the US form of government. They created their own from scratch. And of course we all know that food, culture and tradition are also created in a vaccuum with zero outside influence. I mean the Arab world doesn't have a Barbie Doll equivalent or European magazines on store shelves, nor does pop rock exist outside the US and Canada. That and the Japanese don't have baseball or fast food and the natives still live in igloos and teepees.
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Anti-Americanism sometimes expresses a nascent anti-Canadianism. It's like the teenage girl who "hates" the pretty girl in her class at school - she's not really hateful of the other girl's good looks or social success, she's really just conscious of her own perceived shortcomings and calling the pretty girl a bitch and whatnot makes her feel better about herself without doing anything to actually improve herself. So the outward negative feelings can be a form of self-loathing.
Sometimes that's the case, but there is also another side to the story. Sometimes the regular teenage girl is just minding her own business while the popular pretty girl rubs her beauty and success in her face trying to rile her up in an attempt to make herself feel better. When the regular girl gets annoyed, the pretty girl declares victory, telling herself that her victim must be jealous.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:05 am
 


guest123 guest123:
bootlegga bootlegga:
The thing that surprises me most about Canada is that we have a significant minority that looks to our neighbour and wishes to emulate them. This is an exception the world over.
You're right. No country in history has ever taken an idea from another and tried to apply it to their own. Certainly not the Mexicans. They've never tried to emulate the US form of government. They created their own from scratch. And of course we all know that food, culture and tradition are also created in a vaccuum with zero outside influence. I mean the Arab world doesn't have a Barbie Doll equivalent or European magazines on store shelves, nor does pop rock exist outside the US and Canada. That and the Japanese don't have baseball or fast food and the natives still live in igloos and teepees.


Had you bothered to read my whole post I think you might have understood I was talking about politics and taxation, not Barbie Dolls and Hamburgers...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:26 am
 


Okay, you were talking specifically about the conservative element in Canada wanting to emulate those down south. Sorry to have jumped ahead of that issue. Even so, that sort of thing isn't unique to Canada. Maybe it just looks that way because those who see the issue are only focussed on how it relates to Canada and the US. Seeing greener grass elsewhere isn't a canadian trait. People everywhere do it. Many in the US even consider Canada to be a "liberal paradise" and want the US to emulate alot of what goes on north of them.


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