[Rev_Blair]

At some point the various governments are going to have to admit that it isn;t working though. The gap between rich and poor keeps rising, the social safety net is continually in crisis, and the middle class is slowly but surely disappearing as real wages drop but costs keep on rising.

Until governments realise that they exist for their people and not for the corporations that won't change, but that realisation is coming to an increasing number of voters so the various parties need to recognise it fairly quickly.

[Gonzo]

The problem is that coporations fund these parties. If a party isn't looking out for big business, they wont get any money. Then the people wont see any of there advertising and they wont be able to campaign. It's a catch 22.

[Rev_Blair]

There is a lot of work being done, at least in Canada, to change that though, Gonzo. Some progress has been made...limits on corporate donations and government money to parties.

Much more needs to be done...loopholes closed, proportional representation brought in, a complete ban by anybody not eligible to vote and serious restrictions on the size of donations by individuals.

The effectiveness of these measures can be measured by the howls of protest coming from the corporations and those that live in their pockets, but people are pushing...hard...for changes. That's no guarantee of success, but it sure as hell is worth supporting.

[RoyalHighlander]

EricVA EricVA:

For the record I don't agree with the American government but I don't think that someone speaking on behalf of a large group of Canadians should talk shit like that.....

I didnt vote for her, and her op[inion isnt mine thats for sure.. SOme one should give her a pink slip and let the next politico give it a try.. Prolly wont do any better though..

[Gonzo]

I'd rather see polliticians speak there mind then worry about what others think. Freedom of speech. Americans are quick to dish it to Canada about our military. One American senator called our flag a dying leaf surrounded by comunists. Nixon called Trudeau an asshole. So if you can dish it, you should take it too. And most Americans dont care what our leaders say, it's Canadians who make a fuss.

[inverted]

I think the reason most Canadians make a fuss about it is because we prefer the more intellectual response. Anyone can call somebody and idiot, but being able to say it without actually saying it, much more impressive!

[inverted]

Must reread post before hitting the send button!!

That made way more sense in my head. What I was trying to say was that if you can get your point across without reverting to insults, than you will probably get more respect for your opinion.

[human]

EricVA EricVA:

Too funny...finally Canada gets some mention in the U.S media...check this out

Canadian Legislator Calls U.S. 'Idiots'
Canadian Member of Parliament Carolyn Parrish had said she hated "damned Americans" and called them bastards in the run-up to the Iraq war. She found a new moniker, idiots, on Wednesday in discussing the planned U.S. missile defense system.

Maybe Canada by majority, NOW, does not want to ally their Political Views with the USA, which is understandable under democracy, but then can we deny that the USA is our neighbours, and trade partners.

Can we afford as Canadian to loose our neighbourly friendship with the Americans?

Now the Americans maybe they are not doing except necessary business instead of friendly business with Canada.

But what good comments like this at this time will do?

At the beginning of the invasion maybe, but why now?

This hurt us as Canadian, and will not change the USA policy toward Iraq.

What is the benefit from such statement not to Canada but to the world?

Is such statement will encourage people to align themselves with the peace that Canada represents or it makes them see that when the extremist say the same thing they are right because Canadian official are saying the same?

She doesn't deserve to be a Canadian official this way.

[Gonzo]

Can America afford to loose us as good neighbours? Maybe Canada should look elsewhere for trade until America sees the error in their ways. It's obviouse they arent good neighbours. They lost the soft wood lumber dispute but still wont lift the tarrifs. It's obviouse that they dont want to be a good trading partner, so why should we bother to try? We dont realy need anything from them. Canada can do business with many other countries. It's time we got off our ass and made the effort. The US was convenient at the time because of how close it is, but we can do better.
Besides, Bush is an idiot and a bastard. The truth hurts. America needs to know this. 51% of that country are idiots. With a country so full of idiots, do we want to be tied economically to them when the ship sinks?

[Rev_Blair]

The US cannot afford to lose us as a trade partner, but we can market our goods elsewhere. Think Europe and Asia wouldn't be happy to use Canadian oil? Lumber? They already buy our wheat, but will buy more. Europe, especially France, is buying more and more of our beef.

This habit we have of crawling to the Americans begging for their business has got to stop. They are kicking the crap out of us every chance they get, and we just keep going back for more. It's stupid and we should quit it.

As for Carolyn Parrish. She increased her vote count in the last election. That's something most Liberals, especially those on Martin's side of the party, cannot claim. The Conservatives, who are screaming the loudest for her head, got fewer votes as a unified party than they did as two separate parties, so obviously they arn't as in-tune with their constituents as Parrish is either. Paul Martin does not have a right to fire her and neither does Stephen Harper. She was hired by her constituents and they just vigorously re-signed her contract. Martin could kick her out of caucas, or even the party, but the reality is that she represents a sizable portion of the Liberal Party and he's in danger of losing that part of the party.

[Rev_Blair]

$1:

YOU ARE SUCH A BULLSHITTER!!!! FRANCE!!!! If you would have said Italy, I would have believed you, Spain, I would have believed you, Finland I would have believd you!!! But France!!!! Out of the entire European Union, NO ONE is more protective and nationalistic in their agricultural produce than the French. In fact some of the main disputes involving France and the EU have to do with Farm subsidies. Even the most Libertarian, Right wing parties in France hold the opinion that when it comes to their produce, its a non starter. Some of the biggest protestors of the WTO are French Farmer Unions.

I used France as an example because they are notoriously hard to market to and have a history of being very tough on BSE. It highlights the protectionism of the US when it is eaier to sell beef to France than the US. Country Canada had a fifteen minute segment on it a while back. They like our beef, especially black angus, because it's high quality and they can get hormone-free product here.

Just keep yelling and screaming though, Godz. I doubt you've seen a live bovine in your entire life and I'm pretty damned sure that you've never watched Country Canada.

[human]

Rev_Blair Rev_Blair:

The US cannot afford to lose us as a trade partner, but we can market our goods elsewhere. Think Europe and Asia wouldn't be happy to use Canadian oil? Lumber? They already buy our wheat, but will buy more. Europe, especially France, is buying more and more of our beef.

This habit we have of crawling to the Americans begging for their business has got to stop. They are kicking the crap out of us every chance they get, and we just keep going back for more. It's stupid and we should quit it.

As for Carolyn Parrish. She increased her vote count in the last election. That's something most Liberals, especially those on Martin's side of the party, cannot claim. The Conservatives, who are screaming the loudest for her head, got fewer votes as a unified party than they did as two separate parties, so obviously they arn't as in-tune with their constituents as Parrish is either. Paul Martin does not have a right to fire her and neither does Stephen Harper. She was hired by her constituents and they just vigorously re-signed her contract. Martin could kick her out of caucas, or even the party, but the reality is that she represents a sizable portion of the Liberal Party and he's in danger of losing that part of the party.

So in your opinion everything will come into political blackmail at the end.

Now from the point of the economic political reality of every state do look after its interest as a nation, and therefore manipulate the trade factor (as the blackmail tool) to generate the most benefits; you are right on the money.

But, what good a political statement that has nothing (supposedly) to do with the economic reality can generate?

You are calling to shot the door on dealing with American, but then did you think about who's holding the strong cards here?

Can the USA seal our border, and if it does can it survive without us?

I say yes.

If we do it, can we survive?

I also can say yes, but for sure this survival will cost us much more than any trade benefit will generate from other countries.

Besides...

The reason why we depend on our Natural resources to generate an economic surplus is because we don't have a full grid of good manufacturing power as the USA does, and then, until when we are going to deplete our natural resources?

These are the big questions we should face before making such foolish call.

I'm I saying that without the state we are nothing?

Of course not.

But maybe we should tackle our stupidity of calling Americans are stupid by being smart enough to tackle our economical policy to become a strong base of independency first, instead of sitting on our a$$es insulting Americans then the next day beg them to buy our resources because we can’t sell our manufactured products because they cost us more than all of the countries of the world, and because the inflation rate that controlling our worker’s wages is the monster that keeping us all the time out of the competition.

Talking Economic is as much science as talking politic, isn’t it?

[Rev_Blair]

$1:

So in your opinion everything will come into political blackmail at the end.

No, I'm saying that it's time that our government started listening to the people instead of the corporations.

$1:

Can the USA seal our border, and if it does can it survive without us?

I say yes.

Then you'd be wrong. Canadian energy...electricity, natural gas and oil...powers the United States. They are not self sufficient in energy. That energy makes everything from their chemical-intensive farming to their military-industrial complex possible.

It is well past time to start linking one trade issue to another, just as the US continually links trade to our drug and security policies. They started this game, our government acts as a game piece instead of a player.

$1:

If we do it, can we survive?

I also can say yes, but for sure this survival will cost us much more than any trade benefit will generate from other countries.

Again, you are not correct. Europe and Asia very much want our oil. They are certainly open to trade in other areas, especially since we've gotten rid of Bovine Growth Hormone and banned GM wheat. Africa, South America and Asia are hungry for out technologies.

$1:

The reason why we depend on our Natural resources to generate an economic surplus is because we don't have a full grid of good manufacturing power as the USA does, and then, until when we are going to deplete our natural resources?

We do have a manufacturing sector though, and it's mostly US-owned. They can either play by our rules or give up a market of 30 million+ educated, wealthy people. If they do decide to give up that market, they will leave their infrastructure behind leaving an opening for Canadian companies to take over.

$1:

But maybe we should tackle our stupidity of calling Americans are stupid by being smart enough to tackle our economical policy to become a strong base of independency first, instead of sitting on our a$$es insulting Americans then the next day beg them to buy our resources because we can’t sell our manufactured products because they cost us more than all of the countries of the world, and because the inflation rate that controlling our worker’s wages is the monster that keeping us all the time out of the competition.

We don't insult them anymore than they insult us, Human. In fact we insult them a hell of a lot less. It's no secret at all that people in Bush's White House used to call Chretien "dino". There has certainly been no shortage of American pundits, most with ties to or open sympathies for the Bush Administration calling "Soviet Canuckistan" and communists and terrorist sympathizers.

My point is that we need to quit begging. The United States has very little to offer us that isn't available elsewhere. They are very much becoming a failing giant...isolated from most of the world and reduced to threats in order to sustain themselves. They are immediately dependent on us, but we are not immediately dependent on them.

It's time to step away from them and that includes calling a spade a spade, or in this case, an idiot an idiot.

The first step should be cancelling NAFTA. The second should, given the recent report on climate change in the north, be an announcement that we will no longer sell fossil fuels to any country that has not signed Kyoto.