[Ripcat]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Last year, he applied for refugee status to the Immigration Board claiming he was fleeing an unjust war. He lost and was ordered deported.

Of course this is Canada, and no never means no, so now he's going to launch his first of about 500 appeals through the courts.

He's probably not going to win. But the fact we're even entertaining the possibility is an embarrassment.

I certainly believe that this guy must pay the price for not living up to his commitments but we can't just send him back without going through the whole legal process because we live in a DEMOCRACY and the war in Iraq is in part an effort to put democracy first there and we should be putting our bet democratic face forward for this deserter so he can see exactly what it is he ran away from.

My apologies if someone has already mentioned this. A long thread...

[Q-Q]

Ripcat Ripcat:

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Last year, he applied for refugee status to the Immigration Board claiming he was fleeing an unjust war. He lost and was ordered deported.

Of course this is Canada, and no never means no, so now he's going to launch his first of about 500 appeals through the courts.

He's probably not going to win. But the fact we're even entertaining the possibility is an embarrassment.

I certainly believe that this guy must pay the price for not living up to his commitments but we can't just send him back without going through the whole legal process because we live in a DEMOCRACY and the war in Iraq is in part an effort to put democracy first there and we should be putting our bet democratic face forward for this deserter so he can see exactly what it is he ran away from.

My apologies if someone has already mentioned this. A long thread...

What a bunch of rednecks--all brawn, no brains--not a one among the lot of you

[Tricks]

Q-Q Q-Q:

Ripcat Ripcat:

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Last year, he applied for refugee status to the Immigration Board claiming he was fleeing an unjust war. He lost and was ordered deported.

Of course this is Canada, and no never means no, so now he's going to launch his first of about 500 appeals through the courts.

He's probably not going to win. But the fact we're even entertaining the possibility is an embarrassment.

I certainly believe that this guy must pay the price for not living up to his commitments but we can't just send him back without going through the whole legal process because we live in a DEMOCRACY and the war in Iraq is in part an effort to put democracy first there and we should be putting our bet democratic face forward for this deserter so he can see exactly what it is he ran away from.

My apologies if someone has already mentioned this. A long thread...

What a bunch of rednecks--all brawn, no brains--not a one among the lot of you

only if being a redneck means not being a pacifist

[DerbyX]

Wullu Wullu:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Wullu Wullu:

Q-Q no one has ever been able to show me the invasion of Iraq was illegal, apparently you have a new source to prove this? If so please enlighten me.

Illegal? You are probably right. Mind you there exists no real law or format to determine what is legal and not?

try immoral though.

Agreed Derby that there is no real set in stone set of laws on what is legal and what is not as pertains to this situation, but immoral? No. When over 40 million people have been given the most presious gift, self determination, then I cannot consider it immoral. This gift was bought and paid for by the men and women of the US forces along with their allies who understood their responsibilities and carried out the orders given to them, not by some coward who does not even have the courage of his own convictions. The people of Iraq and Afghanistan have embraced, under terrible threat, that which we take for granted. We barely had a higher voter turn out than Iraq and no one was threating our polling stations. All that has to happen over there for things to completely quiet down is for their neighbours to stop allowing terrorists to get into Iraq. The US is not Iraq's biggest problem, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Palistein, Eqypt etc etc are Iraq's biggest problem, because that is where most of these terrorists are coming from.

Don't think for a second that high and mighty thoughts of freedom and justice were in bushs mind when he invaded. He doesn't hive a damn for anyone in iraq and quite frankly I doubt he gives a damn about anyone but his own circle of friends.

You do realize that the very people the US helped install into power are the shiites and they are sect that embraces extremism far more then sunnis. In addition and despite what you think there are more iraqis fighting the US then foreign fighters. Did the US go in alone? Why should the people who are fighting for their hom,es against US occupation not be allowed to ask for outside help especially since they don't need anyone's permission. Iraqs biggest problem is its ongoing civil war between sunnis and shiites but that actually pales next to the fact they have 300000 foreign troops occupying their land.

$1:

not by some coward who does not even have the courage of his own convictions.

Who exactly do you mean? bush? saddam? me?

It was an immoral choice which is why bush had to lie completely in order to justify it. A moral choice wouldn't need justification. A moral choice wouldn't need to be hidden by lies upon lies.

[SprCForr]

I'm pretty sure he was refering to the deserter.

Q-Q Q-Q:

What a bunch of rednecks--all brawn, no brains--not a one among the lot of you

[Wullu]

I agree that the freedom of the Afghany and Iraqi people was not at the top of the list of reasons. My point Derby is that I could care less what their reasons were if the end result was self-determination for the peoples of those countrys. I think we all understand why the US went into Afghanistan, but Iraq? For me the regime change was enough of a reason.

[Wullu]

SprCForr SprCForr:

I'm pretty sure he was refering to the deserter.

Q-Q Q-Q:

What a bunch of rednecks--all brawn, no brains--not a one among the lot of you

What ya think SprC? Must be nice to be as smart as Q-Q? I am somehow very comforted that he considers himself to be superior to us.

[ShepherdsDog]

Sort of like emancipation of the slaves during the American Civil War. It wasn't the initial reason why they(Union and Cofederacy) went to war but the end result(an end to legal slavery) was freedom for those who were enslaved.

[dgthe3]

Q-Q, do you even know what a redneck is? There are very few people here that anyone would consider to be a redneck. Some are warmongers, some are neo-cons, many are liberal, most don't fit any particular description. So to refer to us as a bunch of close minded, ignorant hicks who drink beer and play with guns is rather close minded and ignorant in itself

[Wullu]

Point made there dgthe3, but redenck actually comes originaly from guys that used to work out doors all day in the sun and guess what happened to their necks?

I was sorta wondering about someone calling Derby a redneck my and ziggy maybe...but Derb?

[SprCForr]

not very tolerant of differing opinions. I'm curious about this comment here:

Q-Q Q-Q:

...99% of all wars are in my opinion gratuitous...

I'm wondering which 1% weren't and why? She sounds like a disgruntled Trudeaopian idealist to me. Our reputation in peacekeeping was built on our abilities in war fighting.

[DerbyX]

Wullu Wullu:

I agree that the freedom of the Afghany and Iraqi people was not at the top of the list of reasons. My point Derby is that I could care less what their reasons were if the end result was self-determination for the peoples of those countrys. I think we all understand why the US went into Afghanistan, but Iraq? For me the regime change was enough of a reason.

First off, I consider Iraq and Afganistan to be worlds apart. In afganistan the very worst possible regime sprung from the violence of the soviet invasion. Had the soviets not invaded then that regime would never have devloped.

In Iraq saddam was a product of the region and its endemic politics and as such is the responsibility of that region. He was of course kept in power by the US. My Iraqi co-worker (who couldn't care less if it was the US, china, russians, whatever who deposed him) states unequivically that during the iran/iraq war US intel saved some tens of thousands of their troops and that it is well documented that saddam had the green light to invade kuwait. Saddam was a monster but he was no islamic extremists like iran was then and kuwait was developing into. The US has got so much guilt and blood on its hands in the middle-east and they are the ones sorely in need of a regime change and a good slap across the face to mind their own buisness.

Bombing a country back to the stone age and causing massive damage and thousands of civilians killed not to mention driving a country not given to extremist towards the very thing they were fighting against. It wasn't worth it in the least and the US deserves no credit or praise for its despicable conduct.

Saddam was like the way he was because that is what their society produces. All we are doing is allowing others to be put in charge who will very likely turn around and do the same damn thing.

The UN put idi amin into power. That didn't work our very well.

Personally its time that we in the western world start to realize that we don't know whats best for everyone and that most of the time people have to work things out for themselves or they will never grow out of it. Peace only comes when people want it to.

[Q-Q]

Wullu Wullu:

SprCForr SprCForr:

I'm pretty sure he was refering to the deserter.

Q-Q Q-Q:

What a bunch of rednecks--all brawn, no brains--not a one among the lot of you

What ya think SprC? Must be nice to be as smart as Q-Q? I am somehow very comforted that he considers himself to be superior to us.

Superior? Of course: No roll and definitely no wink.

A redneck doesn't have a brain in his head, thus is incapable of independent thought. A redneck is forever on autopilot spouting off what his pappy spouted and his pappy before him. A redneck is a follower. A redneck is always under the unquestioned influence of others. A redneck is subservient only he's not aware of it. A redneck is macho in his own head. A redneck lacks empathy. A redneck can't afford to let any of his buds think he is weak. A redneck is a pack animal. A redneck seeks revenge and he cares not how it is exacted. A redneck is dangerous to himself and others. A redneck is a neocon's dream. In fact, the neocon can't effect his agenda without the redneck. Unfortunately, the relationship between the two is not symbiotic but parasitic. Fortunately for the neocon, the redneck never ever realizes that he's been had, used, and abused. And more's the pity!


But now you know what I mean when I refer to you and your ilk as "red necks."

And that's my final word--for now.

[Tricks]

Q-Q Q-Q:

Wullu Wullu:

SprCForr SprCForr:

I'm pretty sure he was refering to the deserter.

Q-Q Q-Q:

What a bunch of rednecks--all brawn, no brains--not a one among the lot of you

What ya think SprC? Must be nice to be as smart as Q-Q? I am somehow very comforted that he considers himself to be superior to us.

Superior? Of course: No roll and definitely no wink.

A redneck doesn't have a brain in his head, thus is incapable of independent thought. A redneck is forever on autopilot spouting off what his pappy spouted and his pappy before him. A redneck is a follower. A redneck is always under the unquestioned influence of others. A redneck is subservient only he's not aware of it. A redneck is macho in his own head. A redneck lacks empathy. A redneck can't afford to let any of his buds think he is weak. A redneck is a pack animal. A redneck seeks revenge and he cares not how it is exacted. A redneck is dangerous to himself and others. A redneck is a neocon's dream. In fact, the neocon can't effect his agenda without the redneck. Unfortunately, the relationship between the two is not symbiotic but parasitic. Fortunately for the neocon, the redneck never ever realizes that he's been had, used, and abused. And more's the pity!


But now you know what I mean when I refer to you and your ilk as "red necks."

And that's my final word--for now.

so wait if rednecks are followers and don't think for themselves, and you are calling us rednecks. Then how the fuck could we speak out against current governments? We spoke out against the liberals. We spoke out when we didn't like what was happening, how is that following without a mind?

[SprCForr]

Tricks Tricks:

... how is that following without a mind?

Because you don't agree with her particular version of the world and the relationships in it.