[bootlegga]

$1:

OTTAWA — The War of 1812 may be one of the world's oddest conflicts, if only because both sides are confident they won.

A new survey suggests Canadians and Americans have vastly divergent attitudes towards the border war that broke out in 1812 and bumbled along for three years.

Americans see it as a war that produced their national anthem. Canadians see it as a war which saved them from American assimilation and preserved them from American politics, gun laws and shared citizenship with Snooki of the Jersey Shore.

During the course of the war, the Americans repeatedly tried to invade and were repeatedly repulsed, by often-outnumbered mixes of British redcoats, Canadian militia and aboriginal allies.

The Ipsos Reid poll conducted for the Historica Dominion Institute for the bicentennial of the war found that 54 per cent of Canadians felt the most significant outcome was that the invaders were turned back.

Given a list of things which might define Canadian identity, 53 per cent of respondents picked universal health care, but winning the War of 1812 and squelching the American invasion was ranked second, with 25 per cent support.

Americans had a dramatically different take. For a third of them, the key outcome of the war was their national anthem. Francis Scott Key wrote the words to the Star Spangled Banner after watching a British naval bombardment of Baltimore's Fort McHenry in September 1814. A plurality of 36 per cent saw no significant outcome at all.

When the Canadians were asked what would be their great concern had the war gone the other way, 60 per cent said they wouldn't want to share the American political system.

"We agree that we do not want to be under the same politics and government system as they have in the States and we take pride in that," said Jeremy Diamond, director of development and programs for the Historica Institute

Another 18 per cent of the Canadian respondents said they didn't want American gun laws.

And six per cent said they didn't want to share citizenship with Snooki and her cohorts from Jersey Shore.

John Wright of Ipsos Reid said the survey results reflect the development of the two countries. The War of 1812 doesn't stand out for Americans because they see other, much bigger watersheds

"The War of Independence is their touchstone for their nationhood," he said. "Ours seems to have been a gradual one."

While some might point to 1812 as a key point on the way to nationhood, others might look at Vimy Ridge, or the patriation of the Constitution.

"We don't see the 1812 war as a stand-alone piece as an American would see the War of Independence, because our nationhood has tended to be evolutionary as opposed to revolutionary."

The American view is sharply different.

"Wars don't play the most significant roles in our country because of the transitional nature of what we did, but in the United States wars play a really big part."

Diamond said, however that Canadians seem to see the war as big event.

"This is a touchstone towards Confederation, it's an important part of the story of Canada," he said.

While they differ on the main outcomes, both Canadians and Americans agreed the war is worthy of commemoration.

More than 80 per cent of respondents on both sides of the border agreed that the war was a significant part of the history of their respective countries and about the same percentage agreed that their national governments should support commemoration of the war.

The Canadian government is spending at least $28 million on the bicentennial.

Almost 90 per cent of all respondents agreed that it is important to celebrate significant historical anniversaries.

But only 58 per cent of Americans and 49 per cent of Canadians agreed that their nation is good in promoting its history.

"There's an interest in celebrating significant historical events," said Diamond.

Wright agreed, noting that a good chunk of respondents said they would take part in some event to mark the anniversary.

"When I see that 31 per cent of the Canadian public, these are adults, say that they are going to take part in celebrations dealing with this sort of thing, and activities, that means that there are 10.5 million adults out there who will probably do something in the course of this year which actually commemorates the 1812 conflict."

The country is entering a five-year period in which major anniversaries come thick and fast. This year it's the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the War of 1812 bicentennial. Then, 2014 marks the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War. The year after that is the 200th anniversary of the birth of Sir John A. Macdonald. And 2017 is the 150th anniversary of Confederation.

Diamond says he sees a new kind of Canadian patriotism growing, which manifested itself during the Vancouver Olympics when wearing the Maple Leaf seemed the right thing to do.

"I think that the next set of opportunities here with these commemorations are going to give Canadians that chance again," he said.

The Harper government has gone out of its way to stress the importance of Canadian history by promoting the Jubilee and the 1812 commemoration and by re-writing the citizenship test to require wider knowledge of the country's heritage.

The government is already planning the commemorations of the next few years. If the poll is right about Canadian attitudes, then it may be on to something.

The poll was conducted Jan. 26-30. It sampled 1,015 Canadians and 1,015 Americans from the Ipsos online panel. Weighting was used to balance demographics. Unweighted this poll would have a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/201202 ... ll-120213/

[sandorski]

[CDN_PATRIOT]

We know we won. They tried to invade us, and we kicked them the hell out of here.



-J.

[DrCaleb]

CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

We know we won. They tried to invade us, and we kicked them the hell out of here.



-J.

But they did get a lovely anthem to mark their defeat. Go Techumseh!

[ShepherdsDog]

It was the final phase of the American declaration of independence. It ended any pretense(if it actually existed) that Parliament was going to take back control of the American colonies. England had to deal with the fact that the political rift with its former colonies was not a temporary one and they had to treat it as a new power. It also ended American ambitions to bring the rest of BNA under the new American republic.

[BartSimpson]

"Universal health care" is what 53% of Canadians think is the best thing about Canada?

Pretty sad when the majority in a country is proudest not of what was done by their countrymen in two successive European wars, but of an entitlement.

Oh, Canada.

[BartSimpson]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

It was the final phase of the American declaration of independence. It ended any pretense(if it actually existed) that Parliament was going to take back control of the American colonies. England had to deal with the fact that the political rift with its former colonies was not a temporary one and they had to treat it as a new power. It also ended American ambitions to bring the rest of BNA under the new American republic.

The American invasion into British North America as part of the war had two factions supporting the act in the USA: The land grabbers who wanted to build an empire and the majority who saw British North America, properly, as a strategic threat to the United States that needed to be neutralized.

Invasion plans surfaced again when the Trent Affair took place and again, interestingly enough, in 1900 when the US got wind of competing acts of aggression planned by both Germany and the UK against the USA. The UK and Germany both wanted to take control of the former Spanish Empire that had recently been conquered by the USA. Germany was planning a spring 1901 amphibious landing on Long Island with the intent of seizing New York City and forcing the USA to hand over the Spanish conquests. The UK had plans to invade the USA at various points while implementing a simultaneous naval war on the Pacific, Atlantic, and Gulf coasts.

The assassination of President McKinley contributed to the undoing of both plans when the highly aggressive Theodore Roosevelt became President and both the UK and Germany realized that TR would not capitulate. Ironically, the provocation later served British interests as it was one of the reasons why Roosevelt agitated for a US Naval modernization program, creating a Navy that would end up assisting a United Kingdom that it had been designed to counter.

NOTE: All of this is declassified and the German plan was the subject of a book from a couple years ago called '1901'. The author is supposedly working on a book that delves into the UK plan.

http://www.amazon.com/1901-Robert-Conroy/dp/0891418431

[ShepherdsDog]

Universally slow health care.

[Beaverbrook]

I'm not a history expert but pretty sure when you try to invade a country, and you don't succeed, then you lost the invasion. Just sayin'.

[sandorski]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

"Universal health care" is what 53% of Canadians think is the best thing about Canada?

Pretty sad when the majority in a country is proudest not of what was done by their countrymen in two successive European wars, but of an entitlement.

Oh, Canada.

It's about Values.

[BartSimpson]

Beaverbrook Beaverbrook:

I'm not a history expert but pretty sure when you try to invade a country, and you don't succeed, then you lost the invasion. Just sayin'.

I'd say we came out ahead of where we were before the war. The US action, especially at sea, blunted British opinions about retaking the USA and then the resolve of the USA that was demonstrated came into play in resolving the border dispute on the Pacific coast some thirty years later.

So in the long run we did not lose because our mutual western border is on the 49th parallel instead of the 42nd where Britain wanted it to be.

Which is why Fort Vancouver is in the United States and not Canada.

[BartSimpson]

sandorski sandorski:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

"Universal health care" is what 53% of Canadians think is the best thing about Canada?

Pretty sad when the majority in a country is proudest not of what was done by their countrymen in two successive European wars, but of an entitlement.

Oh, Canada.

It's about Values.

Oh, I see.



We're fighting for Universal Health Care!

[ShepherdsDog]

And why large parts of Minnesota and North Dakota would have been part of Manitoba.

[sandorski]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

sandorski sandorski:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

"Universal health care" is what 53% of Canadians think is the best thing about Canada?

Pretty sad when the majority in a country is proudest not of what was done by their countrymen in two successive European wars, but of an entitlement.

Oh, Canada.

It's about Values.

Oh, I see.



We're fighting for Universal Health Care!

Partially, yes. :shrug:

[DanSC]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

"Universal health care" is what 53% of Canadians think is the best thing about Canada?

It is a little odd, considering so many nations now have universal health care. It's not exactly remarkable.