[1964-D-Peace]

$1:

Dulce et Decorum est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame, all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! -- An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime. --
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin,
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs
Bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, --
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

--Wilfred Owen

I think that more than speaks for itself.

I probably can't think of a better introduction for any discussion about Ypres,... if not for the terrifying exception that no soldier was equipped at all for this kind of warfare in April of 1915. '_'

[canadian1971]

$1:

Lions led by donkeys.

Should I fell bad that that makes me giggle?

$1:

they had no impact on the first world war!

That's just being uninformed my friend....they most certainly did have an impact, in both wars.

As for Piere Berton, , certainly was Canadian!

[1964-D-Peace]

canadian1971 canadian1971:

Gallipoli is to Australia/New Zealand as Beaumont Hamel is to Newfoundlander's.

Interesting to note that the Newfie's were posted in Gallipoli before going to France....allthough they never went into combat, they suffered about 700 casualties while there, quite a small number compared with A.N.Z.A.C.

Oh that's right...! Newfoundland didn't become a province of Canada until 1949. So any numbers we post on Canadian involvement in WWI is probably exclusive of Newfie numbers, right? So hence the net contribution of all Canadians, as seen in hindsight, is greater still.

BTW, quick off-topic question....
If I understand this correctly [and do correct me if I'm wrong], we can call someone from Newfoundland a "Newfie". That being said, what can we call someone from Labrador? '-'

[canadian1971]

Yes, you can call some1 from Newfoundland a Newife...MOST won't mind at all. I think if you call some1 from Labrador a Newfie, they will correct you.*but they are newfie's eh!

Good old Newfieland! ..Youngest province in confederation, and the oldest city in north america!

[EyeBrock]

D 1964, that one is actually a favourite of mine. Siegfried Sasoons stuff is pretty good too.

Newf 1971, its a true statement me old, The young lads who were mown down in their thousands truly were lions, and the idiot gits who sent them were donkeys! An old but true saying from the Great War.

And for those of you who weren't forced to learn latin (lucky bastards!)

Dulce et decorum est pro patria et mori:

It is a brave and honourable thing to die for your country. The old lie.

[fred22]

About 6,241 Newfoundlanders joined the RNR in in ww1. This meant five percent of the mle population of the Island at that time served in the regiment. One thousand three hundred and five died. In other words one in five was killed. 801 took part in battle of beaumont hamel. 733 were killed,captured or wounded. Most were killed in the first fifteen minutes of the battle. A lot of these guys joined in groups of friends and were killed the same way. Many small places lost a huge percentage of their young men. The RNR has a legacy of courage second to none. It is continued in the reserve regiment of the same name and the huge percentage of Newfoundlanders in the reg force combat arms.
try this link
http://www.nfarchives.net/
Cheers
fred

[canadian1971]

$1:

801 took part in battle of beaumont hamel. 733 were killed,captured or wounded

About 300-350 died, a mistake that I myself made, thinking 733 died, occurs alot...saw an opportunity to correct myself!

$1:

Most were killed in the first fifteen minutes of the battle.

Near "The Danger Tree"....sad day indeed.

Think about that next Canada Day boys, and raise a beer to them

[dgthe3]

One of the many causes of the decimation at Beaumont Hammel is the fact that the soldiers had reflective triangles on their backs, for whatever reason, part of what made them distinct i guess. Any way, if they started to move when they are face down, they were seen and machinegunned. If they went back to their own lines, they would have been shot by the Germans. Makes you wonder how any of them made it out without being hit. What is this 'Danger Tree' you speak of?

As for the war in general, an incredible waste of men. And the British Command, although wasting many of their own men, were more eager to waste the colonials. The Canadian troops were also known for their respect for comanders who respected them soldiers, and for their disrespect for comanders who felt they were being punnished by having to lead mere colonials. Remember, many of the officers were British.

[canadian1971]

The Danger Tree was about 1/2 way into "no-man's land". It was were the men tried to regroup during the attack, and where most were killed.

[fred22]

The triangles were attached to their pack so the officers could follow their progress. As many lay wounded and twitched the triangle would reflect the sunlight and they would be hosed.
Cheers
fred

[canadian1971]

The Ode For The Fallen
With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children,
England mourns for her dead across the sea.
Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit,
Fallen in the cause of the free.

Solemn in drums thrill: Death august and royal
Signs sorrow up into immortal spheres.
There is music in the midst of desolation
And a glory that shines upon our tears.

They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

They mingle not with their laughing comrades again:
They sit no more at familiar tables at home;
They have no lot in our labor of the daytime;
They sleep beyond England's foam.

But where our desires are and our hopes profound,
felt as a wellspring that is hidden from sight,
To the innermost heart of their own land they are known
As the stars that are known to the Night.

As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,
Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain,
As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness,
to the end, to the end, they remain.

[CanadianLynx]

Someone from Newfounland probably call them a newfie.but just call them a Newf.
If you ask what part of the rock they live on they will most likely tell you Sin John's.Most people won't know any of the other towns.
Just to let you know that there is no "rose bowl" parade in Pasadena NF.

[EyeBrock]

Ok DG3, I suppose you can back up your statement that the British were more eager to "waste colonials" then their own troops?
From the numerous books I've read on the subject the Donkeys were pretty non-discriminatory on who they lead into death. Remember the UK lost 8% of it's total population in the Great War. No Commonwealth nation lost as many men, in numbers or per capita.

Not only were many of the officers Brits, 70% of the CEF was British.

Leave your personal prejudices out of the discussion.

[fred22]

Not all the senior officers were assholes either. Julian Byng was a good man. They may have been British subjects but they were Newfoundlanders not british. the differance is real. Under British leadership they were spent like water. Arther Currie was not British but quite frankly he was a better officer and tactician then most of the brits. The record speaks for itself. I have great respect for the british army but haig?
cheers
fred

[dgthe3]

ok, i may have gone a bit over on that. i am sorry, and as far as where i got my info from, it was mainly from what i have heard about the general arrogance that some of the British officers had with respect to their colonial troops. Howver, that could have worked the other way higher up in the chain of command. They may not have trusted 'inferior' troops for many of the tougher missions so the sent the British troops in. That is pure speculation on my part, and probably wrong.