[ManifestDestiny]

You cannot stop the Tsunami.

[themasta]

Robair Robair:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Not as much nonsense as your spewing here...

To be honest rogers, fido, and telus, all suck (read: they charge you too much), canada could greatly benefit from cingular or verizon moving in, since as it is there is very little competition, same goes for your banks.

When you have to cover a much larger area, with a much smaller population base, you are going to have to charge a little more. That's a difference in the market, not the companies.

Now, Thematic, go look up Canadas level of foriegn ownership. Then compare it to ANY other industrialized nation. If that number doesn't bother you, you are not a patriotic Canuck.

Damn straight.

[bootlegga]

Robair Robair:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Not as much nonsense as your spewing here...

To be honest rogers, fido, and telus, all suck (read: they charge you too much), canada could greatly benefit from cingular or verizon moving in, since as it is there is very little competition, same goes for your banks.

When you have to cover a much larger area, with a much smaller population base, you are going to have to charge a little more. That's a difference in the market, not the companies.

Now, Thematic, go look up Canadas level of foriegn ownership. Then compare it to ANY other industrialized nation. If that number doesn't bother you, you are not a patriotic Canuck.

[Thematic-Device]

Robair Robair:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Not as much nonsense as your spewing here...

To be honest rogers, fido, and telus, all suck (read: they charge you too much), canada could greatly benefit from cingular or verizon moving in, since as it is there is very little competition, same goes for your banks.

When you have to cover a much larger area, with a much smaller population base, you are going to have to charge a little more. That's a difference in the market, not the companies.

Not really... Take a look at Rogers Coverage Area and it, not surprisingly sticks predominantly to the urban areas, and canada relative to the US is far more urbanized, it makes it far easier to set up coverage that way, in the US they have to deal with much more expansive cities and even larger sprawls of suburbs.

The Basic Network for FIDO for example covers just a few cherrypicked cities
http://www.fido.ca/portal/en/info/Disco ... Canada.gif

while the basic network for verizon on the other hand spreads to much more isolated areas. http://www.rentcell.com/images/verizon_ ... verage.gif

$1:

Now, Thematic, go look up Canadas level of foriegn ownership. Then compare it to ANY other industrialized nation. If that number doesn't bother you, you are not a patriotic Canuck.

It doesn't bother me when many, even most of the companies I buy from in the states are foreign owned, whether its vivendi, sony, or mitsubishi, it doesn't bother me that my home towns only industry (ensign bickford R&D) has been taken over by a larger corporation since that larger corporation is still going to be doing the exact same business.

I am confident enough in my countries to know that they are not constantly on the brink of complete disaster and that the loss of one company, such as IBM, doesn't threaten my national identity.

[koli]

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Robair Robair:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Not as much nonsense as your spewing here...

To be honest rogers, fido, and telus, all suck (read: they charge you too much), canada could greatly benefit from cingular or verizon moving in, since as it is there is very little competition, same goes for your banks.

When you have to cover a much larger area, with a much smaller population base, you are going to have to charge a little more. That's a difference in the market, not the companies.

Not really... Take a look at Rogers Coverage Area and it, not surprisingly sticks predominantly to the urban areas, and canada relative to the US is far more urbanized, it makes it far easier to set up coverage that way, in the US they have to deal with much more expansive cities and even larger sprawls of suburbs.

The Basic Network for FIDO for example covers just a few cherrypicked cities
http://www.fido.ca/portal/en/info/Disco ... Canada.gif

while the basic network for verizon on the other hand spreads to much more isolated areas. http://www.rentcell.com/images/verizon_ ... verage.gif

$1:

Now, Thematic, go look up Canadas level of foriegn ownership. Then compare it to ANY other industrialized nation. If that number doesn't bother you, you are not a patriotic Canuck.

It doesn't bother me when many, even most of the companies I buy from in the states are foreign owned, whether its vivendi, sony, or mitsubishi, it doesn't bother me that my home towns only industry (ensign bickford R&D) has been taken over by a larger corporation since that larger corporation is still going to be doing the exact same business.

I am confident enough in my countries to know that they are not constantly on the brink of complete disaster and that the loss of one company, such as IBM, doesn't threaten my national identity.

ever consider the fact that so many foreigners feel canada lacks a national identity is because canada is the most foreign owned industrialized country in the world?

[Canadian_Mind]

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Robair Robair:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Not as much nonsense as your spewing here...

To be honest rogers, fido, and telus, all suck (read: they charge you too much), canada could greatly benefit from cingular or verizon moving in, since as it is there is very little competition, same goes for your banks.

When you have to cover a much larger area, with a much smaller population base, you are going to have to charge a little more. That's a difference in the market, not the companies.

Not really... Take a look at Rogers Coverage Area and it, not surprisingly sticks predominantly to the urban areas, and canada relative to the US is far more urbanized, it makes it far easier to set up coverage that way, in the US they have to deal with much more expansive cities and even larger sprawls of suburbs.

The Basic Network for FIDO for example covers just a few cherrypicked cities
http://www.fido.ca/portal/en/info/Disco ... Canada.gif

while the basic network for verizon on the other hand spreads to much more isolated areas. http://www.rentcell.com/images/verizon_ ... verage.gif

$1:

Now, Thematic, go look up Canadas level of foriegn ownership. Then compare it to ANY other industrialized nation. If that number doesn't bother you, you are not a patriotic Canuck.

It doesn't bother me when many, even most of the companies I buy from in the states are foreign owned, whether its vivendi, sony, or mitsubishi, it doesn't bother me that my home towns only industry (ensign bickford R&D) has been taken over by a larger corporation since that larger corporation is still going to be doing the exact same business.

I am confident enough in my countries to know that they are not constantly on the brink of complete disaster and that the loss of one company, such as IBM, doesn't threaten my national identity.

it does when it becomes one company a week. and all the billionares live and invest in the states. why? because they make small amounts of money from each and every foreign company they buy out. all those billions flowing south of the border from canadian industry could be invested in canada instead of the united states.

[themasta]

koli koli:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Robair Robair:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Not as much nonsense as your spewing here...

To be honest rogers, fido, and telus, all suck (read: they charge you too much), canada could greatly benefit from cingular or verizon moving in, since as it is there is very little competition, same goes for your banks.

When you have to cover a much larger area, with a much smaller population base, you are going to have to charge a little more. That's a difference in the market, not the companies.

Not really... Take a look at Rogers Coverage Area and it, not surprisingly sticks predominantly to the urban areas, and canada relative to the US is far more urbanized, it makes it far easier to set up coverage that way, in the US they have to deal with much more expansive cities and even larger sprawls of suburbs.

The Basic Network for FIDO for example covers just a few cherrypicked cities
http://www.fido.ca/portal/en/info/Disco ... Canada.gif

while the basic network for verizon on the other hand spreads to much more isolated areas. http://www.rentcell.com/images/verizon_ ... verage.gif

$1:

Now, Thematic, go look up Canadas level of foriegn ownership. Then compare it to ANY other industrialized nation. If that number doesn't bother you, you are not a patriotic Canuck.

It doesn't bother me when many, even most of the companies I buy from in the states are foreign owned, whether its vivendi, sony, or mitsubishi, it doesn't bother me that my home towns only industry (ensign bickford R&D) has been taken over by a larger corporation since that larger corporation is still going to be doing the exact same business.

I am confident enough in my countries to know that they are not constantly on the brink of complete disaster and that the loss of one company, such as IBM, doesn't threaten my national identity.

ever consider the fact that so many foreigners feel canada lacks a national identity is because canada is the most foreign owned industrialized country in the world?

An excellent observation. Makes you think a little about what our national identity really is. "Not American" is the most common answer given but it would be worth noting that Americans own most of their domestic industries as well as ones overseas (or across continents).

[Scape]

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Unemployment was 7.5% in 1989, it is 7% now... seems like an improvement to me.

If your working at Mcdonalds remember I said the standard of living dropped 10% in 7 years? If you consider that a good thing then go move to a China sweatshop and work for Walmart. Might want to take a look at the wheat board while your at it and see how many family owned farms are left here in Canada. Oh and while your at it take a look at all the slaughterhouses in Canada too, they are all American as well. Who gained from the BSE 'crisis'?

[themasta]

Scape Scape:

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Unemployment was 7.5% in 1989, it is 7% now... seems like an improvement to me.

If your working at Mcdonalds remember I said the standard of living dropped 10% in 7 years? If you consider that a good thing then go move to a China sweatshop and work for Walmart. Might want to take a look at the wheat board while your at it and see how many family owned farms are left here in Canada. Oh and while your at it take a look at all the slaughterhouses in Canada too, they are all American as well. Who gained from the BSE 'crisis'?

In addition, a 0.5% decrease in unemployment from 1989...let me calculate that...that's 0.03% a year...wow, that's really cooking with gas. Gotta get me some of that.

[DrCaleb]

Streaker Streaker:

I believe he is the driving force behind ViveLeCanada, a fine site which I'm sure many are familiar with.

Incorrect Streaker. But thanks for the compliment!

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/multifaq/ind ... tlevel=009

[DrCaleb]

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

while the basic network for verizon on the other hand spreads to much more isolated areas. http://www.rentcell.com/images/verizon_ ... verage.gif

You neglected that verizon owns 20% of Telus.

http://telephonyonline.com/mag/telecom_ ... nt_market/
http://about.telus.com/investors/faq.html#13

So, the coverage map for Verizon looks like this:

http://www.telusmobility.com/ab/coverage/pcs_home.shtml

[Scape]

Rogers Communications Buys Back Shares from AT&T Wireless

AT&T did own part of Rogers as well but then Cingular bought AT&T. Don't be surprised if Cingular buys Rogers (who also bought Fido) once the consolidation is complete next year.

[Jaime_Souviens]

Scape Scape:

A list of some of the companies lost are: Aikenhead hardware (now owned by home depot), Canstar(makers of the Bauer line of sport equipment to Nike), Club Monaco to Ralph Lauren, Le Group Forex to Louisiana Pacific, Macmillan Bloedel to Weyerhaeuser, Midland Walwyn (Canadas last remaining independent broker) to Merrill Lynch, The Montreal Canadians to Gillette, Shoppers DrugMart to Kohlberg Kravis & Roberts, St Laurent Paperboard to Smurfit-Stone Container North Americas biggest Packaging group, Tim Hortens to Wendy's, Trentway Wager bus to Coach USA, Gulf Canada to Conoco(the largest corporate take over in Canadian oil and gas history).

Before you assume I'm attacking your points, I want to suggest that I'm not directly disagreeing with it, but just want to add some additional points.

The buying up isn't all one way. At the very least TD Bank bought Price-Waterhouse, and is planning to move into direct consumer banking, if it has not already done so. And, yes, Wendy's bought Tim Horton's, but Tim Horton's also bought Bess Eaton, a donut chain in New England, and is now running it as Tim's.

I think there have been Canadian buyouts in newspapers and broadcasting, but I'm too uninterested to look it up.

So there have been some Canadian survivors as well.

Second, American companies are being bought up by foriegn companies as well, such as Chrysler, et c.

And third, some Canadian companies are being bought by non-American companies, (Labatt's).

My point being, yes, it's probably mostly Canadian companies being bought, yes, it's Nafta and related legislation, but there's also a lot more corporate integration internationally. Whether that takes 10% or 40% of the 'blame' I don't know, but it diminishes things at least somewhat.

Last, some of these coroprations should have always been considered bi-national. There's a lot of such corporations particularly in paper, but the most obvious examples being in automobiles, where the big three have always been as much Canadian as American.

[hwacker]

Scape Scape:

Rogers Communications Buys Back Shares from AT&T Wireless

AT&T did own part of Rogers as well but then Cingular bought AT&T. Don't be surprised if Cingular buys Rogers (who also bought Fido) once the consolidation is complete next year.

Great when is this going to happen, I hate being raped by teddy every time I travel south.

[Robair]

Jaime_Souviens Jaime_Souviens:

The buying up isn't all one way. At the very least TD Bank bought Price-Waterhouse, and is planning to move into direct consumer banking, if it has not already done so. And, yes, Wendy's bought Tim Horton's, but Tim Horton's also bought Bess Eaton, a donut chain in New England, and is now running it as Tim's.

I think there have been Canadian buyouts in newspapers and broadcasting, but I'm too uninterested to look it up.

So there have been some Canadian survivors as well.

Second, American companies are being bought up by foriegn companies as well, such as Chrysler, et c.

And third, some Canadian companies are being bought by non-American companies, (Labatt's).

My point being, yes, it's probably mostly Canadian companies being bought, yes, it's Nafta and related legislation, but there's also a lot more corporate integration internationally. Whether that takes 10% or 40% of the 'blame' I don't know, but it diminishes things at least somewhat.

Last, some of these coroprations should have always been considered bi-national. There's a lot of such corporations particularly in paper, but the most obvious examples being in automobiles, where the big three have always been as much Canadian as American.

Canada has way more foreign ownership than any other industrialized nation. Do Canadian companys buy American companies? Sure, once in a blue moon. But since Mulroney it's been hapening the other way around at an alarming rate.

Canada used to have something called the foreign investment review board... or was it agency... anyway Mulroney abolished that. You used to have to meet certain criteria before you could just waltz in here and buy up Canadian companys. The buyout had to benefit, or at least not harm Canada. Now everything is up for sale and its been that way since the mid 80's.

This article talks a little about the result.

When an american company buys its Canadian compeditor, jobs are not created in Canada. A small satellite company may be left in Canada but all the high paying Canadian jobs move south to the new head office. No more engineering, accounting or legal work for you Cunucks, sorry.

So how much foriegn ownership is acceptable? How much of Canada do you want to sell?

When do you officially stop being a country and become a colony? 20%? at 30%? At 40%? Cause we're almost there now. Canada is leading the way. I for one, would rather finish this race last. How about you?

I'm doing this real quick right now, but this info is available from some very reputable sources, just google some of the stuff you find in any of these articles. Or, for a good start, give the book at the start of this thread a read.