[Canadian_Mind]

Robair Robair:

koli koli:

DerbyX DerbyX:

what did it say about the CIA plot for the Americanization of Canada?

the cia isn't responsible for the americanization of canada. canada is responsible for the americanization of canada.

Exactly.

If any of you vote Liberal OR Conservative next time aroun, YOU will be resposible for the Americanization of Canada.

Vote Green, vote CAP, hell even vote NDP if the Americanization of Canada concerns you.

I already plan to vote NDP.

[Bigboy]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Robair Robair:

koli koli:

DerbyX DerbyX:

what did it say about the CIA plot for the Americanization of Canada?

the cia isn't responsible for the americanization of canada. canada is responsible for the americanization of canada.

Exactly.

If any of you vote Liberal OR Conservative next time aroun, YOU will be resposible for the Americanization of Canada.

Vote Green, vote CAP, hell even vote NDP if the Americanization of Canada concerns you.

I already plan to vote NDP.

Same with me, never for the provincial party though

[Scape]

Goodbye Canada Is another book with similar themes. It is the bedrock of the CAP party ideology.

Harper had a golden opportunity to bring conservatives back in to power had he just said something instead of meek positioning. Real conservatism can still save this country but not under Harper.

The CAP is the most in tune with what will keep this country Canadian. Failing that the NDP is the best choice federally, especially if they can make inroads vs the Bloc.

[hwacker]

NDP, ha, if you want to give 60% of what you make to the bums.

You guys are unbelievable.

[Streaker]

I haven't read the book, but am familiar enough with Mel Hurtig and have a lot of admiration for him.

I believe he is the driving force behind ViveLeCanada, a fine site which I'm sure many are familiar with.

[Motorcycleboy]

Mel Hurtig? Are you guys serious? He's crazier than Jack fucking Layton. And Smiling Jack is pretty crazy, take my word for it.

Mel did write a good book called the Canadian Encyclopedia. On that one he stuck to interesting facts about Canada. But his political views are, as we used to say in the PPCLI, "Right The Fuck Out Of 'er."

I wouldn't be putting too much faith in anything that lunatic has to say about anything.

And Hwacker, you're wrong bud. With the GST, Gas taxes, Income taxes etc, we're already paying about 60% of what we earn in Canada to the Government. An NDP government would up that to about 70 or 80%. Only to give it away to special interests, students, chronically unemployed (read no-hopers), women, minorities, Indians, wimps, losers, geeks, protesters, and basically anyone else who could figure out how to raise their hand and say "Gimme!"

[Scape]

I am curious as to why your deriding Mel. Please elaborate with specifics. I want to see what qualfifes as crazy in an era where we have the two major federal parties in a race to sell off Canada as fast as they can.

[Motorcycleboy]

Scape Scape:

I am curious as to why your deriding Mel. Please elaborate with specifics. I want to see what qualfifes as crazy in an era where we have the two major federal parties in a race to sell off Canada as fast as they can.

Give me a break Scape! Why don't you give me some specifics regarding how the two major federal parties are in a race to sell off Canada?

That's total nonsense. And you know it.

So does Mel, but he's made a living out of saying otherwise, and that's why I think he's bonkers.

[Streaker]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Mel Hurtig? Are you guys serious? He's crazier than Jack fucking Layton. And Smiling Jack is pretty crazy, take my word for it.

Mel did write a good book called the Canadian Encyclopedia. On that one he stuck to interesting facts about Canada. But his political views are, as we used to say in the PPCLI, "Right The Fuck Out Of 'er."

I wouldn't be putting too much faith in anything that lunatic has to say about anything.

And Hwacker, you're wrong bud. With the GST, Gas taxes, Income taxes etc, we're already paying about 60% of what we earn in Canada to the Government. An NDP government would up that to about 70 or 80%. Only to give it away to special interests, students, chronically unemployed (read no-hopers), women, minorities, Indians, wimps, losers, geeks, protesters, and basically anyone else who could figure out how to raise their hand and say "Gimme!"

Sort of like how you right-wingers are always raising your hand and saying "Gimme a tax break!"...

Anyhow, your hatred and bitterness comes through loud and clear, which makes you kinda pathetic - much more so than all the people you so callously write off as "no-hopers"....

....by all means carry on, however. The image you present of the right is sure to drive more people to the left!

[koli]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Scape Scape:

I am curious as to why your deriding Mel. Please elaborate with specifics. I want to see what qualfifes as crazy in an era where we have the two major federal parties in a race to sell off Canada as fast as they can.

Give me a break Scape! Why don't you give me some specifics regarding how the two major federal parties are in a race to sell off Canada?

That's total nonsense. And you know it.

So does Mel, but he's made a living out of saying otherwise, and that's why I think he's bonkers.

dude mel hurtig loves canada. that's why he wrote his book. he wants to wake people up before canada really does become the 51st. his book is based on factual information. the opinions he makes are of course his own. but the facts he bases those opinions off of are real. a lot of canadians on the right and the left become enraged when they hear the term "51st state" . but but closing your ears and eyes won't make the US and nafta go away.

[Scape]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Why don't you give me some specifics regarding how the two major federal parties are in a race to sell off Canada?

That's total nonsense. And you know it.

Tell me, how many Canadian companies own American companies? Who gained from the deregulation of the telecommunications industry? Or how about your coffee from Tim Hortens? How about CN, why was it split in to 5 companies and majority owned by American companies? Why has the standard of living in Canada was 89% of the US level in 1989 (in GDP) down to 79% in 2000? It was true trade increased but jobs and the number of manufacturing establishments in Canada fell sharply. Someone profited from that sale and it wasn't Canada. Don't believe me? Then why don't we look up the report commissioned by industry Canada:

[url=http://www.ratical.org/co-globalize/NAFTA@7/ca.html]NAFTA AT SEVEN
Its impact on workers in all three nations[/url]

$1:

# Trade with the U.S. has expanded dramatically during these 12 years. Canda’s exports are now equivalent to 40% of its gross domestic product, up from 25% in 1989. (More than half of Canadian manufacturing output now flows south of the border, and Canadian producers account for less than half of domestic demand). This north-south trade boom has been mirrored by a relative decline in trade within Canada. Trade has also become more concentrated with the U.S.—from 74% to 85% of exports—and less concentrated with the rest of the world. Two-way investment flows have also increased greatly. Both Canadian foreign direct investment and portfolio flows to the U.S. grew much faster than did U.S. flows to Canada during this period.

# Growth performance in the 1990s was worse than in any other decade of the last century except the 1930s. Average per capita income fell steadily in the first seven years of the decade and only regained 1989 levels by 1999. By comparison, per capita income in the U.S. grew 14% during this period (Sharpe 2000).

# Canada has become a noticeably more unequal society in the free trade era. Real incomes declined for the large majority of Canadians in the 1990s; they increased only for the top fifth. Employment became more insecure and the social safety net frayed.

# While productivity has grown—rapidly in some sectors—wages have not, a trend mirroring the de-linking that has taken place in the U.S. But the overall productivity gap with the U.S. has not narrowed as free trade proponents predicted; rather, it has widened recently.

# Successive waves of corporate restructuring—bankruptcies, mergers, takeovers, and downsizing—have been accompanied by public sector restructuring—downsizing, deregulation, privatization, and offloading of state responsibilities. Public sector spending and employment have declined sharply, and publicly owned enterprises in strategic sectors such as energy and transportation have been transferred en masse to the private sector.

We lost in 7 years 276,000 jobs:

$1:

Between 1989 and 1997, 870,700 export jobs were created, but during the same period 1,147,100 jobs were destroyed by imports. Thus, Canada’s trade boom resulted in a net destruction of 276,000 jobs.

Family farms were squeezed out. Ownership and control tens of thousands of Canadian compaines were lost and net incomes dropped.

From June 30,1985 to June 30,2001 nearly 13,000 Canadian companies have been sold of foreigners. The investment Canada act has been dismantled leaving Canada easy pickings.
A list of some of the companies lost are: Aikenhead hardware (now owned by home depot), Canstar(makers of the Bauer line of sport equipment to Nike), Club Monaco to Ralph Lauren, Le Group Forex to Louisiana Pacific, Macmillan Bloedel to Weyerhaeuser, Midland Walwyn (Canadas last remaining independent broker) to Merrill Lynch, The Montreal Canadians to Gillette, Shoppers DrugMart to Kohlberg Kravis & Roberts, St Laurent Paperboard to Smurfit-Stone Container North Americas biggest Packaging group, Tim Hortens to Wendy's, Trentway Wager bus to Coach USA, Gulf Canada to Conoco(the largest corporate take over in Canadian oil and gas history).

I am getting writers cramp. As you can see I can go on for days. The nonsense is how you didn't seem to think that was a sell out and the parties in power, Tory and Liberal, who were both directly responsible for this high treason.

[koli]

well said. it's all true.

[Streaker]

[Thematic-Device]

Scape Scape:

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Why don't you give me some specifics regarding how the two major federal parties are in a race to sell off Canada?

That's total nonsense. And you know it.

Not as much nonsense as your spewing here...

To be honest rogers, fido, and telus, all suck (read: they charge you too much), canada could greatly benefit from cingular or verizon moving in, since as it is there is very little competition, same goes for your banks.

$1:

Why has the standard of living in Canada was 89% of the US level in 1989 (in GDP) down to 79% in 2000?

The US economy has typically grown slightly faster then canada for a long time now, that is long before NAFTA.

$1:

[url=http://www.ratical.org/co-globalize/NAFTA@7/ca.html]NAFTA AT SEVEN
Its impact on workers in all three nations[/url]

$1:

# Trade with the U.S. has expanded dramatically during these 12 years. Canda’s exports are now equivalent to 40% of its gross domestic product, up from 25% in 1989. (More than half of Canadian manufacturing output now flows south of the border, and Canadian producers account for less than half of domestic demand). This north-south trade boom has been mirrored by a relative decline in trade within Canada. Trade has also become more concentrated with the U.S.—from 74% to 85% of exports—and less concentrated with the rest of the world. Two-way investment flows have also increased greatly. Both Canadian foreign direct investment and portfolio flows to the U.S. grew much faster than did U.S. flows to Canada during this period.

Exports with the US increased, and Imports with the US increased, yeegads, thats a good thing since it means more income, and cheaper goods for both parties.

$1:

# Growth performance in the 1990s was worse than in any other decade of the last century except the 1930s. Average per capita income fell steadily in the first seven years of the decade and only regained 1989 levels by 1999. By comparison, per capita income in the U.S. grew 14% during this period (Sharpe 2000).

Still looking around for the actuall growth rates of canada.

$1:

# Canada has become a noticeably more unequal society in the free trade era. Real incomes declined for the large majority of Canadians in the 1990s; they increased only for the top fifth. Employment became more insecure and the social safety net frayed.

well that one is just untrue
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census0 ... medinc.cfm

Median incomes increased 0.8% after adjusting for inflation.

$1:

# While productivity has grown—rapidly in some sectors—wages have not, a trend mirroring the de-linking that has taken place in the U.S. But the overall productivity gap with the U.S. has not narrowed as free trade proponents predicted; rather, it has widened recently.

See above

$1:

# Successive waves of corporate restructuring—bankruptcies, mergers, takeovers, and downsizing—have been accompanied by public sector restructuring—downsizing, deregulation, privatization, and offloading of state responsibilities. Public sector spending and employment have declined sharply, and publicly owned enterprises in strategic sectors such as energy and transportation have been transferred en masse to the private sector.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Subjects/ ... lfs-en.htm

I'll try to find a larger range of data, however, I'm having difficulty filling the gap between 75 and 01

$1:

We lost in 7 years 276,000 jobs:

$1:

Between 1989 and 1997, 870,700 export jobs were created, but during the same period 1,147,100 jobs were destroyed by imports. Thus, Canada’s trade boom resulted in a net destruction of 276,000 jobs.

Unemployment was 7.5% in 1989, it is 7% now... seems like an improvement to me.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/studies/7 ... e-9011.pdf
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... .html#Econ

$1:

I am getting writers cramp. As you can see I can go on for days. The nonsense is how you didn't seem to think that was a sell out and the parties in power, Tory and Liberal, who were both directly responsible for this high treason.

Im sure you can keep going, but could you next time check your sources a little.

[Robair]

Thematic-Device Thematic-Device:

Not as much nonsense as your spewing here...

To be honest rogers, fido, and telus, all suck (read: they charge you too much), canada could greatly benefit from cingular or verizon moving in, since as it is there is very little competition, same goes for your banks.

When you have to cover a much larger area, with a much smaller population base, you are going to have to charge a little more. That's a difference in the market, not the companies.

Now, Thematic, go look up Canadas level of foriegn ownership. Then compare it to ANY other industrialized nation. If that number doesn't bother you, you are not a patriotic Canuck.