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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:18 am
 


Is Canada ready for this?

".....I don't think it's sunk in to the Canadian public how the world has changed.... There is also a chance that we will have an attack in Canada...."


From: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11418110/

Canada to boost troops in Afghanistan
Additional 1,300 soldiers headed to dangerous region as Americans return

By Doug Struck
Updated: 1:35 a.m. ET Feb. 18, 2006


TORONTO - When Glyn Berry, a Canadian diplomat, was killed by a suicide bomber last month in Afghanistan, many here saw it as a sign of more bloodshed to come.

Canada, which has stayed out of the Iraq war, is ramping up its forces this month to patrol the most dangerous area of Afghanistan and to assume command of 6,000 NATO troops as the United States turns over more of the fight to its allies.

The handoff coincides with a spike in Iraq-style roadside bombs, ambush attacks and suicide bombings in Afghanistan. Military and political leaders here worry the Canadian public, already sour on America and the Bush administration's "war on terror," is not psychologically ready for news of casualties.

And some predict that Canada's higher profile in Afghanistan may bring attacks home, as in London and Madrid.

"I don't think it's sunk in to the Canadian public how the world has changed. There is a high likelihood we will have significant losses of our troops," said John Watson, head of CARE-Canada, a relief agency that has operated in Afghanistan since 1961.

"There is also a chance that we will have an attack in Canada. Unlike the States or the United Kingdom, we haven't had to deal with that kind of incident" in more than 40 years, he said.

Tough talk from top brass
Canada's military brass has stepped up the blunt rhetoric in a campaign to prepare the public. Gen. Rick Hillier, chief of defense, has called the Taliban in Afghanistan "detestable murderers and scumbags," unusually crude language for Canadians.

"This is a dangerous mission. There is an enemy. We have had casualties," Hillier said by telephone Thursday. "But what we want to achieve there is worthwhile. Things that are worth doing are sometimes dangerous."

Some see this as a shift in the mission of the Canadian military. Since the Korean War, Canadian forces have been deployed almost exclusively for peacekeeping. Canada stayed out of Vietnam, played a support role in the Persian Gulf War, and is proud of its image as a neutral party.

"We're not really aggressive. People around the world know us as peacekeepers, not as people who go out and seek conflict," said Marcel Durette, 52, as he ate lunch in downtown Toronto. "Canada going after the Taliban? I find that hard to believe."

"I think there will be more of an outcry if people start seeing body bags and coffins," said Andy Cherniak, 41, a counselor eating at a nearby counter.

‘No longer a peacekeeping operation’
Joel J. Sokolsky, who is dean of arts and teaches at the Royal Military College in Kingston, Ontario, said he thinks there will be public support for the Canadian mission "as long as the government is clear about what it is.

"The government must make it clear from the beginning that this is no longer a peacekeeping operation, it's a combination of counterinsurgency and reconstruction," he said.

But there has been no significant parliamentary debate, and Afghanistan "still is off the edge of the radar screen" of the Canadian public, said Stephen Northfield, foreign editor of the Globe and Mail newspaper.

"I don't think there is alarm yet," he said. "The Canadian public hasn't fully calibrated the level of risk. The Canadian involvement hasn't been that deep yet. And the change in the situation on the ground has been reasonably recent."

The death of Berry, 59, a political officer working on reconstruction projects in Afghanistan, has helped bring home the danger. Berry was the first Canadian diplomat killed overseas in 40 years. Three soldiers with him were badly injured when a suicide bomber struck their military convoy Jan. 15 near the southern city of Kandahar. The Taliban asserted responsibility for the attack.

U.S. reducing troop level
Canada has posted forces in Afghanistan since February 2002. But the Canadian contingent is set to increase to 2,200 from 900 by the end of February, and the troops have moved from their base in the capital, Kabul, to Kandahar, a region with heavy Taliban influence and frequent attacks by insurgents.

In March, Fraser will lead NATO's southern contingent of 6,000 troops, primarily Canadian, British and Dutch. The United States, with 19,000 troops in the country, has said it will reduce its forces to 16,500 this year.

Kandahar and southern Afghanistan have become increasingly dangerous as insurgents deploy tactics used in Iraq, including suicide bombings. There have been at least 15 such attacks since November, according to the Reuters news agency. After a bombing killed four U.S. soldiers Monday, a Taliban commander boasted of more attacks to come, according to Reuters. The Pentagon says there have been 266 U.S. fatalities in Afghanistan.

"They are copying tactics from Iraq because of their ineffectual tactics over the last two or three years," said Hilliard, who served in Afghanistan from February to August 2004. "They are trying to counter some progress in standing up an Afghan army and an Afghan government."

While warning about the dangers, Hilliard also describes the mission in terms more comfortable to the Canadian public.

"Our entire aim is to help Afghans rebuild their families so, in turn, families can rebuild their communities," he said. "We are helping build institutions."

Public sold ‘three D’s’
Echoing that line, the commander on the ground, Fraser, talks of the "three D's" -- defense, development and diplomacy.

Watson, whose relief agency kept working under the Taliban but now has withdrawn from Kandahar because of the danger, thinks that is unrealistic in southern Afghanistan.

"Development and diplomacy will get people shot," he said. "The military should be under no illusions that their posting is going to be the most dangerous since the Korean War. It is primarily a war-fighting exercise. They are dealing with an insurgency in that part of the country that is getting worse by the day."

Hilliard notes that other Canadian peacekeeping missions -- which include the Balkans, Congo, Somalia, Rwanda and Ethiopia -- have been dangerous. More than 100 Canadian soldiers have died in such missions in a half decade, including eight in Afghanistan since 2002.

"Canadian Forces have faced dangers before," Hilliard said. "They are ready for the job."


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:33 am
 


I think overall because it is in Afghanistan and not Iraq that the average Canadian will support the troops. That being said, in 2002 when our troops got bombed by accident by an overzealous American pilot some people called for our immediate pullout (female NDP MP, I can't remember her name right now). Most Canadians polled agreed with staying, those of us in Kandahar thought very little of the NDP harpys rantings and were actually a little embarrassed for her!

Also the press does seem to have a short memory as most of them forgot that in 2002 we were not a peacekeeping force but were actively hunting the Taliban in the mountains of Afghanistan. The first mission was war-fighting, then we put troops into Kabul which was peace-keeping/peace-enforcement, and we seem to be back full circle in Kandahar hunting Taliban/al Queda with a little reconstruction efforts as well!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:43 am
 


usa usa:
I'm an American and speaking for all Americans I think Canadians are worthless. WHAT HAVE CANADIANS EVER DONE FOR THE WORLD? You cowards hide up in that freezing hell and wish we would annex you. You know more about our history than you do your own. No body respects you people because you are lazy, unimaginative, jealous cowards. Just face it your worthless!


You have proven you are the master at cut and paste, why not come up with some original material?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:59 am
 


Yawn. . . .


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:59 am
 


Can somebody ban that idiot!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:05 am
 


$1:
".....I don't think it's sunk in to the Canadian public how the world has changed.... There is also a chance that we will have an attack in Canada...."


We have been attacked by terrorists. Air India killed over 300 people and the staging ground was Canada. I'd say we lost this paticular round against terrorists.

Sectarian terrorists=1; RCMP/CSIS, Justice industry=0


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:39 am
 


How do you know that the rcmp and csis haven't had any successes?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:51 am
 


I don't, but can you honestly say that the forces of good won the Air India trial? Do you feel that justice was done?

Let's not dampen this down. That was terrorism, operating out of Canada.

..and more.
[web]http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=720a5823-cf0d-4211-9904-f009b2698364&k=49436[/web]


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:34 am
 


ridenrain ridenrain:
I don't, but can you honestly say that the forces of good won the Air India trial? Do you feel that justice was done?

Let's not dampen this down. That was terrorism, operating out of Canada.



Justice was done according to the evidence put before the court. You should be thankful that you live in a country where even in the most highly publicised crime and heinous mass murder in our history the courts demand the same burden of proof as they would of any other case.
Do I think Malik and Bagri were guilty of the Air India bombing? hell yeah... Do I think they should've been convicted based on the prosecution evidence? hell no


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:45 am
 


Nothing to see here, move along?

$1:
150 wiretaps were then erased. CSIS has always said they had no value. But the RCMP was furious.
In an internal 1996 report marked "Secret," Inspector Gary Bass, now assistant commissioner of the RCMP, said, "Numerous intercepts of high probative value between several of the co-conspirators leading up to the bombing were destroyed. There is a strong likelihood that had CSIS retained the tapes…that a successful prosecution against at least some of the principals in both bombings could have been undertaken. Had CSIS co-operated fully from June 23rd onward, this case would have been solved at that time."


http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/airin ... _csis.html


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:00 pm
 


We Americans had similar territorial problems between the CIA and the FBI, which from my point of view is scary and stupid. But, it is just the nature of bureaucracies and holders of government jobs.

In the long run I believe that Canada has plenty of security capability. Sometimes you have to get hurt before you make changes. Just hope Canada can be heads up sooner than later... America too.


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