[SaintLucifer]

Tricks Tricks:

You should have read your entire link Tritium....

$1:

Less than a week after the Arrow's first flight, Conservative John Diefenbaker becomes prime minister in a landslide electoral victory, and inherits the Arrow program from Liberal Prime Minister Louis St. Laurent. Diefenbaker distrusts Avro executives and is gravely concerned about the spiralling costs of the Arrow program. In September 1958 he announces that the government will not complete the full run of Arrow production, but will only authorize completion of planes currently in production.

Diefenbaker then announces that the entire Arrow program will be reviewed in six months. Avro president Crawford Gordon goes on the defensive, taking to the airwaves to reassure the public – and Arrow workers – that this does not mean the Arrow program is cancelled.

Spiralling costs did not sink the Arrow. The Americans did after they threatened us and our aerospace industry. Get it right child.

[tritium]

Tricks Tricks:

You should have read your entire link Tritium....

$1:

Less than a week after the Arrow's first flight, Conservative John Diefenbaker becomes prime minister in a landslide electoral victory, and inherits the Arrow program from Liberal Prime Minister Louis St. Laurent. Diefenbaker distrusts Avro executives and is gravely concerned about the spiralling costs of the Arrow program. In September 1958 he announces that the government will not complete the full run of Arrow production, but will only authorize completion of planes currently in production.

Diefenbaker then announces that the entire Arrow program will be reviewed in six months. Avro president Crawford Gordon goes on the defensive, taking to the airwaves to reassure the public – and Arrow workers – that this does not mean the Arrow program is cancelled.

There are many versions as to why the Arrow was scrapped. However, history and the fact that the military tore in their and destroyed the plane lead to speculation that the U.S. had applied pressure due to the fact that Russia had spy's inside Canada and our aerospace industry.

Also, the plane could take down a U2, the U.S. was extremely worried.

Tricks, I don't understand why you are still in Canada. It seems that you are infatuated with the United States and defend the U.S. vigorously.

Although I admit the same guilt. When I was 18 I thought the USA walked on water. I was not much of a Canadian. Then I married a U.S. citizen and moved to the U.S. for 10 years.

I traveled from coast to coast. Saw the country, live in LA, WA, TX, FL.

Lets just say, I am far more enlightened, thankful and Proud to be Canadian.

..

[Yank-in-NY]

You must be very dissapointed on top of proud, letting Americans push your country around as often as they do. Why don't you elect someone with some balls? Just curious.

[tritium]

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

You must be very dissapointed on top of proud, letting Americans push your country around as often as they do. Why don't you elect someone with some balls? Just curious.

Why do you think I have returned to Canada.

[Yank-in-NY]

tritium tritium:

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

You must be very dissapointed on top of proud, letting Americans push your country around as often as they do. Why don't you elect someone with some balls? Just curious.

Why do you think I have returned to Canada.

You're going to be a very amusing leader being banged by Garfield.

[tritium]

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

tritium tritium:

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

You must be very dissapointed on top of proud, letting Americans push your country around as often as they do. Why don't you elect someone with some balls? Just curious.

Why do you think I have returned to Canada.

You're going to be a very amusing leader being banged by Garfield.

Learn from History.

If Bush can get voted in as President of the United States

nuff said.

[Tricks]

tritium tritium:

Tricks, I don't understand why you are still in Canada. It seems that you are infatuated with the United States and defend the U.S. vigorously.

ROTFL I don't think the US is gods gift to us. I djust don't like seeing people putting down our biggest ally so that they can try to make Canada look good. You can make Canada look better without doing so.

On the avro, I have never seen a shred of proof that says the US government pushed them into it.

[tritium]

Tricks Tricks:

tritium tritium:

Tricks, I don't understand why you are still in Canada. It seems that you are infatuated with the United States and defend the U.S. vigorously.

ROTFL I don't think the US is gods gift to us. I djust don't like seeing people putting down our biggest ally so that they can try to make Canada look good. You can make Canada look better without doing so.

On the avro, I have never seen a shred of proof that says the US government pushed them into it.

"our biggest ally?"

What do Americans think of Canada?

Answer: They don't.

[Arrow]

sukhoi sukhoi:

I dont think Canada would ever need one. America would never attack Canada..

...again. Now what was that war plan the States has on file for the invasion of Canada?

sukhoi sukhoi:

“Geography has made us neighbors. History has made us friends. Economics has made us partners. And necessity has made us allies. Those whom nature hath so joined together, let no man put asunder.” - John F. Kennedy

Methinks JFK did dissemble.

'Geography has made us neighbours. History has made us separate. Economics will overcome that. And when we're finished screwing you, we'll brag and pass you around to a few friends.'

My cynical take

[roundthebend]

Ultimately loosing the avro program was a kick in the teeth for the future of aerospace in Canada...that much we know.

But we need to realize that this was more then just the loss of a single program...it was the beginning of the "Brain Drain" of Canadian expertise.

From that moment on how many Canadian scientist, doctors, etc left Canada for the greener fields of the US? How many great "Discoveries" made by American based programs where actually "discovered" or developed by highly skilled Canadians? It took how many years before the Canadian aerospace program was even mentioned again in the grand scheme of things with the "Canada Arm" on the space shuttle...

It often pisses me off...sorry...when history relegates Canadian contribution to the back of the bus. The facts remain...if Canada had not canceled the avro project, the US may have never walked on the moon...no I should not say that...

To reword it properly....If Deif the Chief had not canceled the avro program history more then likely would have written of the joint effort of Canada and the US walking on the moon.

I happened upon this forum while looking for more information about the "national anthem booing" this week between Edmonton and San José
and have stopped by lots of forums and blogs in my travels today...I actually took the time to register at this form because of the avro post I found.

Earlier in this post someone mentioned "I think it was "MissT" that Canada should be proud of the fact that we have been able to prove to the world that we can have power without the almighty nuke...and she is right...But we should also be proud of the unsung "Tech Heroes" that have been swallowed up but the US...As proud Canadian's we should take a moment to celebrate the unmentioned contributions of Canadians to all forms of technology regardless of where they reside.

Okay...enough of my soap box ranting...if you would like more information about Canada's contribution to NASA...here is a great link... http://collections.ic.gc.ca/heirloom_se ... 40-345.htm

You might also enjoy http://www.avroarrow.org/index1.htm

[Tricks]

tritium tritium:

Tricks Tricks:

tritium tritium:

Tricks, I don't understand why you are still in Canada. It seems that you are infatuated with the United States and defend the U.S. vigorously.

ROTFL I don't think the US is gods gift to us. I djust don't like seeing people putting down our biggest ally so that they can try to make Canada look good. You can make Canada look better without doing so.

On the avro, I have never seen a shred of proof that says the US government pushed them into it.

"our biggest ally?"

What do Americans think of Canada?

Answer: They don't.

What do Canadians think of America? Look at your self to get the answer.

[dgthe3]

There have been a few discussions about the arrow here, myself and and master debator had a lengthy discussion in one over a year ago now. I don't even remember the name of that thread now. But heres my general take on the matter: It simply doesn't make sense that it got canceled. The costs were high, but good tech always is and from what i have heard the arrow was designed to be mass produced (as far a jet fighters go at least), which increases the initial design costs but would decrease the manufacturing costs. Secondly, governments don't always tell the truth. This was especilly true at the height of the cold war.

I won't go any further right now but i will close with a question:

Isnt' this thread about nuclear weapons?

[Yank-in-NY]

dgthe3 dgthe3:

Isnt' this thread about nuclear weapons?

And? It could be about Willy Wonka and his chocolate factory, it will inevitably lead to how Canada has gotten invaded, screwed and controlled by the US.

[tritium]

Yank-in-NY Yank-in-NY:

dgthe3 dgthe3:

Isnt' this thread about nuclear weapons?

And? It could be about Willy Wonka and his chocolate factory, it will inevitably lead to how Canada has gotten invaded, screwed and controlled by the US.

Canada already has an anti-missile defense system is Sask.