[ridenrain]

Works for the Feds...

[Motorcycleboy]

$1:

Xerxes: Wow we 've got a real hardened cynic here.

Cynical? No, just realistic. After watching teachers unions in Ontario, Quebec, BC and pretty much everywhere else in the country strike so often it's become as common an experience to the average student as the High School Prom, I'm a bit sick of hearing their leaders whine about how the sky is falling.

$1:

Xerxes: The essential service legislation is not a removal of rights. What is a removal of rights was the settlement the government imposed last time this dispute came up. What the BC Libs did was essentially say "Here's your contract, now piss off."

Once again, tell me how teachers are hard done by? Last I heard, BC teachers were the best paid in Canada. They get 70k+ a year. Excellent pensions, summers, Christmas and weekends off. Medical, dental. What more do they want?

$1:

Xerxes: The gov't has to negotiate this time simply for the fact that 90% of the public sector union contracts expire next and how they deal with the teachers will set the bar for next year.

All the more reason to drive a hard bargain. Public sector workers make up only 18 per cent of the work force, yet they are responsible for almost half the hours lost to strikes annually in Canada. Yet, public sector workers enjoy better conditions on average than almost any other labour sector. They're whiners who should get a reality check.

$1:

Xerxes: You can shit on the unions for only so long. Just ask the Gov. of California.

Or ask former Ontario Premier Mike Harris. He took on the pampered teacher unions in the 90's. He broke them. His electoral punishment? Back- to- back majorities, something that hadn't been seen in Ontario for over 30 years prior to his government's 1999 win.

[PostManPat]

Well its day 3 of the Strike and i'm starting to feel guilty....guess iI should open my books
Under a semester system we're behind a week

[BartSimpson]

xerxes xerxes:

You can shit on the unions for only so long. Just ask the Gov. of California.

The Governor has raised $40 million to support his four initiatives and the unions have contributed $80 million of their member's funds to fighting them.

Since these figures came out last week the Governor's initiatives have all four edged up in the polls.

The special election propensity projections are so far looking at the majority of Democrat voters as not even participating in the election. In California when this happens the core conservatives alway win.

So even though a clear majority of the electorate may poll as opposing the initiatives they won't come out to vote against them.

The same thing happened when a majority of Californians polled as opposing the recall of then-Governor Gray Davis, but then on election day these people never showed up and the Republicans carried the day recalling Davis and electing Arnold.

One of the initiatives requires the unions to ask permission from their members before using their dues for political purposes that the members may oppose.

Union members this last weekend opposed the measure by a narrow margin according to The Sacramento Bee.

All four initiatives will pass.

[canucker]

Motorcycleboy Motorcycleboy:

Once again, tell me how teachers are hard done by? Last I heard, BC teachers were the best paid in Canada. They get 70k+ a year. Excellent pensions, summers, Christmas and weekends off. Medical, dental. What more do they want?

I don't think they get quite that much, but I could be wrong....

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

That said, it's pretty hard to argue that when you earn 70k + a year for 8 or 9 months work, with an excellent pension, medical, dental, etc that you're hard done by.

Well wherever you're living, your teachers salary is an exception. As a principal, my wife wasn't making that much. So to imply that all teachers are making 70k + a year is BS. Principals in larger city schools may make this, but they've us usually got Masters and Doctoral degrees. I'd like to see where you got this '70k + figure' from, or did you just assume it and throw it out as a random number? Benefits also vary from division to division, they aren't universal. When I taught, I only m ade 36 000 a year and we had no eye care and our dental coverage was 300 a year. I also worked with 25 students who all suffered from varying degrees of FAS & FLAS(Fucking Little Assholes Syndrome). I had drunks passing out in the schoolyard and drunks who would try to wander into the school or schoolyard to scream at teachers. Gee and why were the kids so fucked up?

[Motorcycleboy]

$1:

Shepardsdog Wrote: Well wherever you're living, your teachers salary is an exception.

I got this number from the BC Teachers Federation site. They put the top rate for a Vancouver school teacher at $67000 based on their 2001 contract. If the union would have actually worked out a deal instead of walking, I can gurantee that even a nominal increase would have worked out to more than $70 k.

The other demands made by the teachers have to do with more funding support for dealing with non-English speaking students etc. Well, I just can't think of an argument more tailor made to support my frequent rants against Canada's wide-open, third-world immigration policies. But I digress.

$1:

As a principal my wife wasn't making that much. So to imply that all teachers are making 70k + a year is BS.

Depends where you work, doesn't it? And it's all relative, isn't it? Senior Teachers in T.O. make more than 70 k. For 9 months work!

$1:

I also worked with 25 students who all suffered from varying degrees of FAS & FLAS(Fucking Little Assholes Syndrome). I had drunks passing out in the schoolyard and drunks who would try to wander into the school or schoolyard to scream at teachers. Gee and why were the kids so fucked up?

We've all got our crosses to bear. I was a beat cop in a previous life in Sydney Australia. One morning, as I walked down Darlinghurst Rd feeling sorry for myself while pulling junkies out of the gutter, I came across the dishwasher at Mcdonalds. I ended up striking up a conversation with him as busied himself picking up the syringes from the laneway behind that particular restaraunt.

It turned out he'd been an Engineering professor in his home country.Now he was stuck doing what I can honestly say was probably the worst job in the world.

Get over yourself. There's way harder things in life than anything you've done.

[Joe_Stalin]

Take the TV news coverage of students supporting the teachers with a dash of shish kabab.

They know better than to bad mouth the teachers who mark their exam papers.

[Motorcycleboy]

Joe_Stalin Joe_Stalin:

Take the TV news coverage of students supporting the teachers with a dash of shish kabab.

They know better than to bad mouth the teachers who mark their exam papers.

Yeah, students, by their very nature are young, impressionable and easily influenced. I think it's disgusting when the teachers manipulate them into barracking for their pet causes.

As if anyone gives a shit what a 15 year old's opinion on a complex labour negotiation is anyway!

If the teenagers have so much to offer, maybe the teacher's union should put a few them on their negotiating team!

[Richard]

What F#$king negotiation are you people reffering to??????????????
They have not had a NEGOTIATED contract since 1992.

Lily you crack me up girl where did I condemn you and we werent' talking about your shoes.

[twister]

They could have stayed as an professional association like accountants, Lawyers etc. Through those means they would have been treated as professionals. They wanted to and became a Union. Well with unions go things like collective bargaining, bargaining in good faith etc.. unfortunately in todays economic time so do the words imposed settlement. Thier contract is at an impasse.. The do not have a legal right to strike they are considered an essential service they Are doing an "ILLEGAL STRIKE"...

At no time is the government is saying here this your settlement for the rest of your teaching lives.. now "fuck off".. the legislation was intended to put teachers back to work for the year and at that end to have a "mediated" contract in place at the end of the school year. So students wouldn't be affected.

No they want it now.. this isn't so much about class size.. they are using the students as pawns to get a better settlement.. when the come back after they get a new deal are they going to add and extra 2 weeks.. not bloody likely. Enjoy you vacation. I think it time all the people running daycares that have teachers kids on thier roles should say.. uhm no sorry we have other working families who need the space.. you can take your kids with you to the picket line. Enjoy

The teachers want a 15% increase on thier salaries.. they want to be treated like docters and lawyers.... Same money.. Doctors work all day have weekends off and very rarely have time off only after thier chargable hours are used up. Accountants an lawyers bill thier clients if they don't work in thier field they don't get paid.
Teachers are well paid here in this province they get on average 2 PD days a month, every holiday off and from the End of June till september off. (which they are not paid for I am constantly reminded)

No public sector union in this economic time can demand a 15% increase.. blow that out your ear.. you didn't get it under the NDP.. (all your cronies when they were in government) oh and By the way great to see the NDP under Carole James wading into the issue and cozying up to big labour again and again and again.
you will get as everyone else has 0-0-2% over three years suck it up and get your asses back to work.

[Joe_Stalin]

I heard that a teacher without a contract is laid off at the start of summer holidays.

They can then apply for UI as theoretically they are looking for work but alas doggone it, the schools are closed.

[BartSimpson]

Do with the teachers what Reagan did with the air traffic controllers: he fired them.

Snide remark disclaimer. Don't read further if you're emotionally fragile when teachers and children are mentioned.


Okay?


So what happens if the strike goes on for some time and then when standardized tests are given to the kids their scores improve?

[ridenrain]

CKNW just reported that the BC courts have frozen the strike fund for picketing teachers. No fines but no strike pay for the teachers.
A smart move because now this will force teachers to cross the lines or loose the $50.00 per day.
Maybe those smart folks can get a job at Wall Mart?
Write on the board 100 times "would you like fries with that?".

[Motorcycleboy]

twister twister:

They could have stayed as an professional association like accountants, Lawyers etc. Through those means they would have been treated as professionals. They wanted to and became a Union. Well with unions go things like collective bargaining, bargaining in good faith etc.. unfortunately in todays economic time so do the words imposed settlement. Thier contract is at an impasse.. The do not have a legal right to strike they are considered an essential service they Are doing an "ILLEGAL STRIKE"...

At no time is the government is saying here this your settlement for the rest of your teaching lives.. now "fuck off".. the legislation was intended to put teachers back to work for the year and at that end to have a "mediated" contract in place at the end of the school year. So students wouldn't be affected.

No they want it now.. this isn't so much about class size.. they are using the students as pawns to get a better settlement.. when the come back after they get a new deal are they going to add and extra 2 weeks.. not bloody likely. Enjoy you vacation. I think it time all the people running daycares that have teachers kids on thier roles should say.. uhm no sorry we have other working families who need the space.. you can take your kids with you to the picket line. Enjoy

The teachers want a 15% increase on thier salaries.. they want to be treated like docters and lawyers.... Same money.. Doctors work all day have weekends off and very rarely have time off only after thier chargable hours are used up. Accountants an lawyers bill thier clients if they don't work in thier field they don't get paid.
Teachers are well paid here in this province they get on average 2 PD days a month, every holiday off and from the End of June till september off. (which they are not paid for I am constantly reminded)

No public sector union in this economic time can demand a 15% increase.. blow that out your ear.. you didn't get it under the NDP.. (all your cronies when they were in government) oh and By the way great to see the NDP under Carole James wading into the issue and cozying up to big labour again and again and again.
you will get as everyone else has 0-0-2% over three years suck it up and get your asses back to work.

Excellent post Twister. What more can one add to that?