[whelan costen]

Dr.Caleb....I am speechless! Hope that is not the DNA mutation anon has been refering to? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'>

[robert_fisher]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] [QUOTE BY= z_whalen] [QUOTE]In terms of Canadian sovereignty and some other issues, I think when Bush became President in the US it really became clear how much of a threat we were under and what could happen if nothing was done.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I think that's true for a lot of people. And if Bush getting elected didn't get them interested, 9/11 and the war on terror did the trick. I worry, though, that a lot of this interest will evaporate if Bush is not reelected. I have seen people who seem to have the idea that Bush is behind everything that is wrong in the world. So this is my question: if Bush loses this election, what is going to happen? Will people stop caring? I'm betting in a post-Bush era people will be even more apathetic than they are now, because they won't have a figurehead to blame all their problems on. For manipulators, apathy is power, so perhaps we could expect to see our government disregarding its citizens even more. Just guessing.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />Great point. The only difference between Bush and Kerry I can see is Keey wants universal acceptance of American domination, and BUsh doesn't care what the world thinks. If you do some internet searches, you can learn a lot about the "Skull and Bones society," of which BOTH of them are members. How's that for democracy? <br /> <br />Although Bush is crazy, for the reason you mentioned I hope Bush wins...he may run the U.S. into the ground, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing long-term for anyone.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />I couldn't agree more with both of you! Bush isn't the true 'evil' here. It's the mentality that I am fighting against. <br /> <br />I woke up this morning and realised for maybe the first time that this is all real. There ARE Americans that think a great nation has to "flex is military muscle," we ARE running out of oil, we ARE losing our Canadian identities, we ARE heading towards a brick wall! <br /> <br />It's a dirty feeling to want another term of Bush, but it almost seems for things to get better they must get much much worse. Maybe to wake up the other 90% of our population! <br /> <br />OFF TOPIC: <br />I really encourage everyone to see 'End of Suburbia.' It's a real putting it all in perspective/connect the dots type of film. <br />

[Crankster]

So,if Bush is not the man behind the "terror war",just what the hell is? <br /> Could I venture a guess as to corporate greed? <br /> I truly believe that most western people know and understand what the heck is going on,but,choose to stick thier heads in thew sand and ignore it because it is too "big and ugly" to fathom! <br /> You have people in power in both corporate structures and political structure,twisting and manipulating world wide issues to thier own freakin gain. <br /> How does this,or how did it happen?! By the populace not giving a DAMN thats why. <br /> Now we have a governement in both the US and Canada that is determined to shove whatever it wants down the throat of everyone! Includes kids as well!! <br /> WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE PEOPLE!!!!!

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Crankster] So,if Bush is not the man behind the "terror war",just what the hell is? <br /> Could I venture a guess as to corporate greed? <br /> I truly believe that most western people know and understand what the heck is going on,but,choose to stick thier heads in thew sand and ignore it because it is too "big and ugly" to fathom! <br /> You have people in power in both corporate structures and political structure,twisting and manipulating world wide issues to thier own freakin gain. <br /> How does this,or how did it happen?! By the populace not giving a DAMN thats why. <br /> Now we have a governement in both the US and Canada that is determined to shove whatever it wants down the throat of everyone! Includes kids as well!! <br /> WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE PEOPLE!!!!![/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />I don't know where this post came from. We're discussing reality, if you get to wound up you'll just burn yourself out. Canadians are still too comfortable. We haven't yet hit rock bottom. <br /> <br />There's nothing we can do to create a successful third party in the U.S., and in Canada it would also be nearly impossible without proportional representation to win with a new party. <br /> <br />Our discussion revolved around Bush being less of a risk to most of the world--except for the middle east. I still believe this, because the man is so trans- parent. At least he doesn't fool educated people. <br /> <br />If you have any bright ideas, feel free to share them. I think you're overrating the ability perceive themselves to have. Many people may get something is wrong, but we live in the age of individualism. They're not willing to put themselves out, and there is no organizational structure we can legally use to organize enough people to do more than blow hot air. <br /> <br />Sheeples can change things--jsut don't expect it to happen.

[Crankster]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] [QUOTE BY= Crankster] So,if Bush is not the man behind the "terror war",just what the hell is? <br /> Could I venture a guess as to corporate greed? <br /> I truly believe that most western people know and understand what the heck is going on,but,choose to stick thier heads in thew sand and ignore it because it is too "big and ugly" to fathom! <br /> You have people in power in both corporate structures and political structure,twisting and manipulating world wide issues to thier own freakin gain. <br /> How does this,or how did it happen?! By the populace not giving a DAMN thats why. <br /> Now we have a governement in both the US and Canada that is determined to shove whatever it wants down the throat of everyone! Includes kids as well!! <br /> WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE PEOPLE!!!!![/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />I don't know where this post came from. We're discussing reality, if you get to wound up you'll just burn yourself out. Canadians are still too comfortable. We haven't yet hit rock bottom. <br /> <br />There's nothing we can do to create a successful third party in the U.S., and in Canada it would also be nearly impossible without proportional representation to win with a new party. <br /> <br />Our discussion revolved around Bush being less of a risk to most of the world--except for the middle east. I still believe this, because the man is so trans- parent. At least he doesn't fool educated people. <br /> <br />If you have any bright ideas, feel free to share them. I think you're overrating the ability perceive themselves to have. Many people may get something is wrong, but we live in the age of individualism. They're not willing to put themselves out, and there is no organizational structure we can legally use to organize enough people to do more than blow hot air. <br /> <br />Sheeples can change things--jsut don't expect it to happen.[/QUOTE] <br /> Thats exactly where I'm at,you putz!! Everyone knows the reality,but,they are to busy doing whatever it takes to get by! Do you have time for activism?Do you have time to pull your arse out of your personnal fires and do anything to promote change for ALL?! <br /> I know I don't.Its that circle that the powers that be have forced us into.They have gotten us into staet of being,or stateof thinking that is totally contrary to where a population as technologicaly advanced as we are should never be! <br /> With our resources and tech,we should be enjoying a lot more out of life here in Canada,than just "getting by". My kids should enjoy what the future holds for them.When I talk to my kids about thier futures,thier answers scare the shit outta me.As the next generation,they see what the last has done to the world and really don't know what to do. <br /> You are probably thinking,'What the hell is this dude teaching and saying to his kids?!". Nothoing but the bare truth of where the world is at and what needs to be done to correct it.If we don't teach kids the "reality" or the "big picture",we nurture the infection already spreading.That infection being this concieved notion that our government is not for the people but for the country.The governmnt IS for the people and always should be.We have been led to believe that the country does not function without government.I say bullshit!

[Kory Yamashita]

Crankster, please refrain from name-calling. <br /> <br />And to you and Perturbed as well, all you need to do to see people actually out there trying to make a difference is visit a campus at lunchtime. You'll be bombarded with calls to action. <br /> <br />I'm active in a political party for the people. Many people are. I think that at some point you just have to decide that you've had enough of just TALKING about doing things here on Vive, and you go out and try to make something happen as well. Although, I might add that I wouldn't know how to go about it if not for this wonderful resource in Vive. <br /> <br />And Crankster, for your kids' sake, I hope they're not TOO young <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'> Reality can be a disturbing thing at times... <br /> <br />

[michou]

I started to care as a young uprooted Québec teenager, living in the US at the same time the Vietnam war was raging. Trying to understand WTF was going on, the search for answers began and has basically never stopped since. The more I read and asked questions, the more appalled I became to mankind’s folly. It was also during this span of 5 years, living amongst conservative Americans, that I was personally confronted with the fact of my cultural difference. I recall refusing to stand up and recite the U.S. pledge of allegiance to the flag (she’s different) and at 15, I was already opiniated as hell on about any subject of the day (there she goes again). <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/eek.gif' alt='Eek!'> <br />At the same time, rightly or wrongly, I then tagged Canadians (the english-speaking kind) as the northern American equivalent. It was only when I became involved and active with Québec’s sovereignty movement that I looked more seriously and intently at the « what makes Canada tick » side of it. What I found was a nation searching for a new definition of itself and this was a nice surprise. Evolving and creating one’s identity is much better than having one imposed on you. <br />

[Brianne]

Michou raises great points: First, there is so so much to do, so much information out there, so many different issues and organizations, and means of protest or action, its difficult for anyone to see a clear route from here to --- the end of our problems (?). We all do what we can, do what we feel is the right way of going about doing what we can, and we all hope that that's enough for right now. Tomorrow comes a lot sooner than you'd think, eh? <br /> <br />Also, I think taht a lot of the confusion behind the 'movement', a lot of the wasted efforts and the non-issues suddenly cropping up as <i>major</i> issues, is due to this redefinition of our identity as Canadians. We're all fighting something, but its difficult to see what it is that we want done. What is our end-point? Is it the abrogation of free trade agreements, a better environment, or economic system, or what? All these issues are connected, but we have a real problem presenting a vision to the people about how it connects, and why they should care. I can't remember the last time I heard a politician link one issue to another, if it didn't have something to do with jobs or taxes. <br /> <br />I think that this need to re-define our nation and our society is more urgent than it is believed. A new definition is needed desperately; obviously, we aren't simply a nice, small nation with few problems and good health care any more. We are so much more than that, if we ever were that. To be sure, we need to get on with this transformation that seems to be taking place so that we can take a good look at the new status quo, and see what still needs to change.

[Kory Yamashita]

Brianne, check out Suzuki Speaks, a CBC special (don't know when they're airing it next). David Suzuki does an amazing job of making those connections. He explains the folly of our current way of living and connects right from the micro-biological level all the way up to economies and limits to growth... he's quite the brilliant man!

[michou]

[QUOTE BY= gaulois] I came across some of the Gandhi thoughts on projecting oneself what we see the world as missing. [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Gandhi is also a favorite of mine and I've always enjoyed his candid humor. Here is an example of it. <br /> <br />Gandhi was once asked what he thought about western civilization. His response was: "I think it would be a good idea." <br />

[Guest]

After I read Michel Chossudovsky.

[gaulois]

Delenda Carthago: c'est un peu bref. Pourrais-tu expliquer ce qui t'amène sur ce site de la souveraineté canadienne -vs- la mondialisation de M. Chossudovsky? Quel est ce Carthage que tu souhaites détruire?

[Brianne]

Kory: He's definitely a great man... but is he the Greatest? *g* <br /> <br />Sometimes I wish Suzuki would just run for government. I feel like he's run the course of influence in a non-governmental capacity, and he isn't getting any younger (though I'm quite sure he'd win, regardless of which party he was). I always feel like a hypocrite when I say this, but there are limits to what people can achieve when they aren't willing to push and implement their ideas, because a lot of people feel that an aversion to political positions really equates to a refusal to take responsibility if those ideas don't work out. <br /> <br />I mean, everyone knows that Suzuki is brilliant, and we probably all believe what he says and what he thinks we should do, but if he isn't willing to get in there and earn the ability to implement his ideas, what more can he do? He's spread the awareness, the ideas, the information, and the way to improve our world. Its been effective, absolutely; however, those issues aren't in the paradigm that our governments work with. I don't necessarily think that Suzuki is the only one who can change that paradigm, but he is the most well-known and well-respected of the bunch, and already has a great deal of influence. He could really change things.

[Kory Yamashita]

Brianne, he's not as universally respected as you might believe. I had "David Suzuki for Greatest Canadian" as my msn name and a lot of people protested. Apparently his nudist stunt offended a lot of people (ruining the environment is ok, but taking your clothes off isn't!!). Anyways, I agree that he SHOULD run. I just don't think it would be quite as simple as that. On the other hand, I've heard his daughter is quite brilliant and eloquent and that she may have a future with the NDP!! <br /> <br />On a side note, have you met her, Brianne? She's fairly young, living on the Island, I think. I'm kind of surprised she wasn't at the YND convention.

[Brianne]

Kory: Naked? Eurg! Sorry, it might just be the idea of David Suzuki naked, not the general idea of nudity, that upset people. I mean, eurg! We watched his videos in kindergarten! Icky icky icky icky... but then, I'm rather Puritan in my sensibilities (you may have picked up on that at Convention. "No, I really really mean it! You can't smoke that here...") <br /> <br />I didn't know his daughter was YND. Her name wasn't on any list I recieved. That's too bad, actually. It would have been great to meet her (I was really disappointed that Allison James didn't come, either. It would have been nice to have met her, as well).