[rearguard]

Dancing, trying to reason with these criminals is a waste of time. They do their jobs knowing full well what it means, and they don't care about who gets hurt in the process.<br /> <br /> You may as well be writing e-mails to your cat, or if you don't have a cat, to that invalid address [email protected].<br /> <br /> These people don't fight fair, so don't expect reasonable treatment should you end up before the courts. The court system is run by the same thugs that run the various Departments of Compliance, they are all in it together, forming a large self serving bureaucracy.<br /> <br /> Since nothing is being done to address the concerns we have (not even acknowledged), we have to assume that nothing will change for the next census and that the situation will most likely get worse in terms of which companies will be used to process the cenus, what questions they'll be asking, and what they will be doing with the data.<br /> <br /> If they intend to follow through with their threats and thousands are taken to court, then we have to assume that more ruthless methods designed to coerce us more effectively into "compliance" will appear in time for the next census. <br /> <br /> If they follow through and attack the thousands who refused to "comply", it will in effect be a massive crack down on census dissent, probably not ever seen before anywhere. If such a thing happens, there will be a backlash of more noncompliance, and they will have to deal with a larger number of false and/or difficult to process replies, as well as delayed replies.<br /> <br /> Only through more effective coercion can they expect to function through the same (or growing) awareness which is causing the resistance. From their POV, the resistance is expected to get worse not better, so they must be thinking about better ways to convince the public into accepting blind obedience, while at the same time working out better ways of scaring people into answering all the question promptly and accurately.<br /> <br /> If they intend to stick with the "we are all powerfull and you will comply" methodology, the threats and coercion and protesting will keep on getting more intense.<br /> <br /> I imagine at this very moment the enforcers in the Justice Dept of Compliance are pondering what to do about the hundred thousand or so "tardy" citizens refered to them by Stats Can. Processing them all under traditional methods of following the law will be a very costly and time consuming process. Such a massive undertaking won't be easy to hide from the publics eye, thus exposing the true extent of the protest which to date is largely anyones guess. It may be that ignoring the situation may be far better than exposing it - at least for this census, but not the next one.<br /> <br /> What they probably are considering, is changing the law to make it quick and efficient to punish people for refusals, and in a way that has enough bite to coerce people into "complying" as soon as the census form arrives at their door step.<br /> <br /> The ball is in their court and all we can do is wait and see what their next move will be.<br /> <br />

[rearguard]

Someone has been busy at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_2006_Census">wikipedia making sure that the LM protest surrounding the 2006 Census entry was made invisible</a>. Check out the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Canada_2006_Census">discussion page</a> to see what was done, and by which user. Be sure to look at the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Canada_2006_Census/NPOV_April_2006">archived discussion</a> which further hides from view talk about the protest. Nice hachet job.<br /> <br />

[Dancing]

Hope springeth eternal, Rearguard!<br /> <br /> I appreciate your comments. My belief is that we have more power than we think. Maybe we are afraid of the power we have? In my experience, we are winning because we are working together.<br /> <br /> I started an email network before the time of interactive sites and blogs. We won our very first battle (an issue about water) in an intense co-ordination of people, information and action. It took 8 months.<br /> <br /> For 6 years now we have worked on various issues. Some battles are won in the short term, some in the longer. But through every one, we learn, we bring in more people, and we advance. There is massive growth in the interconnectedness, the formation of critical mass, which gives us the ability to change things.<br /> <br /> Today I will send the message about the census/Lockheed-Martin into the peace networks. Many or most of those people are unaware of Vive le Canada's (our) contribution to their efforts. The battle to stop collaboration by the Government of Canada with a company like Lockheed-Martin, using our tax money to further enrich LM, is significant. We are shoulder-to-shoulder with the people who attend peace rallies and vigils.<br /> <br /> We are shoulder-to-shoulder with people who are appalled by the destruction wreaked, who raise money to send to countries like Iraq, to help re-build. (small, small penance for the hatred created by the killing and devastation.)<br /> <br /> This Saturday past I became leader of the Green Party of Saskatchewan. I joined the Party in May ($10 Federal; $5 Provincial). They are grass roots people who, like myself, know that citizens have to step up to the plate. I've met great people - concerned about, and active in their communities. The issues I've worked on are pretty much the same as those of the Green Party.<br /> <br /> We can halt the corruption. There are many, many more of us than there are of them. It just takes working together - - seeing the links between us. <br /> <br /> When you cross paths with someone, be curious about them. Take the time to ask questions. When you get to know them, even just a little, you'll be surprised how, in some way, you are connected to them. Take the time to talk with them. Make the connection. It will raise their spirits and determination when they know that there are many others who support their efforts.<br /> <br /> This is a form of guerilla warfare. We fight with new weapons, weapons that don't kill. Our weapons are far superior to anything manufactured by Lockheed-Martin and deployed by Governments' Departments of War. Our primary weapon is information. Our soldiers are intelligent and knowledgable. Our minds have not been numbed by their drugs.<br /> <br /> Have fun!<br /> Dancing<br /> <br />

[rearguard]

"My belief is that we have more power than we think. Maybe we are afraid of the power we have?"<br /> <br /> We are very powerfull when we work together. No government can survive without at least a good deal of support from the people. By "support" I mostly mean "tolerance", since only if enough people tolerate a government can it hope to function. Even the worse tyrant can survive only while the people tolerate its existence - history shows this to be true, with revolution after revolution recorded with tyrants being shot dead, heads chopped off, hung in public, locked away in prison, or tossed out in exile.<br /> <br /> Do we have the will to fight? Yes, to a degree, but it's not yet bad enough here in Canada to pick up pitch forks and torches. The people in power know this, and are keenly aware of how far they can push the limits.<br /> <br /> Are they afraid of us? You bet they are. They try to convince us that there are terrorists "who hate us for our freedoms" while they do whatever they can to take it away from us. They are clearly afraid of our ability to think and act freely without being monitored because it places limits on their ability to take advantage of us, and it poses a threat to their power base.<br /> <br /> What is happening to Canada has nothing to do with terrorism. They've been attacking our freedoms decades before 9/11, it's a continuous and never ending war fought between the people and the establishment that tries to herd us around as if we are livestock.<br /> <br /> Are we organized enough? Not yet IMO, but we're getting there. The first step is awareness, which you and many others are continuously working towards.<br /> <br /> I find it interesting that at a time in our history when people are probably more aware than ever, governments around the world are pushing as hard as they can to install mass monitoring systems so they can track our every move. Will it matter in the end when millions all at once decide to say "No!"?<br />

[wasjod]

I have heard of nobody being taken to court and have had no more letters or visitors since August. I know of myself(and family), and 4 other families and 7 singles who protested by not filling anything out and none of us have heard a thing. Anyone know of anybody being taken to court and if you do do they need some money for legal fees? I'm thinking $40 to $100, if someone needs help and a couple dozen people give that amount out it could help. If our facist government is dragging anyone into court I want to do what I can to help.

[Roy_Whyte]

I too haven't heard hide nor hair from anyone at StatsCan. I suspect there are far too many people not complying with the census that they are paralyzed right now. They certainly can't take hundreds of thousands of Canadians to court. They've tried the threats and appeals via every avenue open to them except the courts to this point and yet, so many have failed to comply.<br /> <br /> Or it could just be the calm before the storm...

[rearguard]

Stats Can has backed itself into a corner. We took them up on their threats in numbers, and there's safety in those numbers.<br /> <br /> If StatsCan (or I should say the Justice Dept) tries to prosecute thousands of Canadians, the cost would be very high in terms of money and resources, and bad exposure. It would tie up the courts for years should everyone actually defend themselves against their accusers, and it would quickly become a political issue.<br /> <br /> It's easy to defend yourself: "Um, I actually did send in my forms on time, why do you say I did not?" "We never received your forms." "Really? That's too bad." "... and when we called you never sent them in either." "Really, when did you call and who did you speak with?" ... etc etc etc. They can't take a "household" to court, they can only take people to court, so they have to decide who in the house failed to comply ("Gee I never saw a form, nor did I ever get a phone call, you must have spoken with someone else in the house.").<br /> <br /> A massive legal battle would further expose to Canadians what was going on with the census, more so than anything that was done by the protest movement.<br /> <br /> Also, if they only pick on a few protesters to set an example and instill fear in our collective minds, then these people can convincingly argue that they're being picked on only because of their activism, rather than their refusals, otherwise thousands of Canadians would also be in court along side them.<br /> <br /> On the flip side, if StatsCan does nothing, then they will have let the cat out of the bag, and their threats will be shown to have no teeth. Without threats to fall back on, and with more people knowing what's going on, the next census will be an even bigger disaster if they intend to still be using LM's garbage.<br /> <br /> Can you say, caught between a rock and a hard place?<br /> <br /> One more thing, should legal action be taken, it'll no doubt take a fair amount of time before anything happens. I think I read somewhere that the gov has 2 years to take people to court over census violations.<br /> <br /> StatsCan will have little choice but to realize that they need voluntary compliance rather than coerced compliance to conduct such a massive survey, or they can go the way of the CRA and make good on their threats, but there's a significant cost in doing so. People can always provide incorrect information on the forms that's hard to detect, and they can also minimally comply in numbers which would slow down the data collection effort to a crawl.<br /> <br /> It's a wait and see game for now.<br /> <br />

[rearguard]

Just a heads up from a post made by Dancing. At least one direct threat of court action has arrived.<br /> <br /> [quote]<br /> Wednesday Oct 11. <br /> <br /> I signed for a registered letter brought by the postman. From Statictics Canada. It has the appearance of being personally signed by Ivan Felligi, Chief Statistician, responsioble for the Census.<br /> <br /> If you get a postman with a registered letter for you, you might not want to accept it.<br /> <br /> The letter says:<br /> - deadline to complete is Oct 27.<br /> - after which it will be turned over to the Dept of Justice with the recommendation that charges be laid.<br /> <br /> Ivan's email address is: [email protected]<br /> <br /> I will send Ivan an email before Oct 27, and post a copy of it here.<br /> <br /> Best wishes to you all,<br /> Sandra<br /> [/quote]<br /> <br /> Here's the link to the discussion thread where her post resides:<br /> <a href="http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20060929100649677">Census reply - finally</a><br /> <br /> They need your name, address, and proof of a direct refusal, so don't make it too easy for them.<br /> <br /> <br />