[wasjod]

Wow, I sit at my computer totally shocked. Early this afternoon, not one, but two census workers stopped by my house. I was in the shower at the time but below me is a basement suite. The renter of the basement suite let the 2 census workers in and they asked him if they could sit down (renter told me), they proceeded to wait 20 minutes in someone else's suite while I finished my shower. While I was in the shower I could hear banging on my door on four seperate occasions. Once I turned the shower off, more banging on my door and shouts of "We're from the census." I did not respond, I walked about my house and went about my day, this just stunned me. Two census workers spent appox 40 minutes at my door, excuse me? What's next? A warrent to make me fill out the census? I am just wondering if I have entered the twilight zone. They were not knocking like a normal person would, they used the pinky end of their hand in a fist, the guy below me said so, he found it rather amusing, I did not. As I said before, I am stunned, totally stunned. I got their shouts on video and my voice recorder and am going to put them up if my lawyer says it is okay, I called him, let him hear the recordings and said I want to file harrassment lawsuit, it is time for the people to bite back. Any cute decides to bang on my door for 40 minutes on a Sunday again and I swear you will hear how I killed someone on the evening news.

[wasjod]

Sorry if I went over the top in the last post, I am just very pissed off at the present moment. I do not respond well to intimidation, I like to stand up for myself and am glad I did not open the door this afternoon as I would have beaten the crap out of someone. I am between jobs, I rent and the place I live in is up for sale and I live in nuthead Cowtown so my patience for this census bullshit is at an all time low, I have enough stress in my life without having to deal with census wankers, therefore I will never open the door when these idiots come round, they can try and prosecute an address as they do not know my name or my phone number.

[Spud]

LOVE your attitude wasjod!I am in cowtown as well,and the dumb fucks pester all the time.DON'T answer the door or phone.My fear is that if I do open the door I will do something BAD.I fuckin hate these little shits.POWER to the people! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'>

[rearguard]

wasjod, that's unreal! You have every right to be upset like that! <br /> <br /> Ivan "you will comply" Fellegi must be offering a large cash bonus for each hard-to-get census form filled out. So far for me, nothing has happened other than several phone calls after I sent that young lady away from my door. It's been silent for a few days now.<br /> <br /> Recently, I read in our local paper that in BC over 59,000 people have yet to fill out their assigned census form. As usual, according to the article, we're all just being "tardy" and there's no mention of a protest. The article spreads on the "transfer payments" crap really thick, along with suggestions that these "tardy" people are costing tax payers huge sums of money for the extra collection workers. The last part of the article tosses around the usual threats of fines and possible jail time.<br /> <br /> One very interesting item however, is that the Stats Can mouth that was interviewed by the paper, let it slip out that <strong>in order to be prosecuted, you have to refuse in person</strong>. I pointed this out before, that a household cannot be fined or sent to prison - only people can (and appearently so can corporations - see the definition of "person" <a href="http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/I-21/246527.html">here</a>.)<br /> <br /> <strong>As long as you don't actually refuse to complete a census form, then they'll have a hard time prosecuting a house for refusal.</strong><br /> <br /> So, while I have no legal expertise on the matter, I figure that you should simply NOT speak to anyone from the census police, and if you get cornered by one, don't say that you won't fill it out. Tell them you will fill it out (later of course, and only on the paper form), or tell them that you already sent it in, or perhaps best of all, don't say anything to them at all or say that you are NOT a member of the household and none are available at this time.<br /> <br /> When I got called, I told the worker no one from the household was in, and I asked if I could take a message.<br /> <br /> If you tell the census police that you already sent your form in, then it'll be up to Stats Can to prove that you did NOT send it in, which of course will be a very difficult thing to do.<br /> <br /> Finally, if anyone feels they should "cave", I suggest that you fill out only the bare minimum of information. I would only indicate how many people are in the house, and what their ages are (birthdate by year only). Perhaps you can indicate the language you use. As far a I'm concerned, that's all the information that they need. I cannot imagine why the remaining information is so important that it mandates prison time for refusing reveal it.<br /> <br /> <i>Note: Edited to add new content.</i><br /> <br /> One more thing, the article I read said that Stats Can would stop actively collecting census forms at the end of August. <br />

[whelan costen]

Well they finally came to my house. I was more than a little surprised, it was 8:30 ish p.m. and a very nice woman introduced herself to me. I went outside to discuss the census. Apparently Stats can said they did not recieve my form. I declared truthfully that I had mailed it. When? 'Well on the day that I was suppose to',I stated. She had the form ready, pen in hand to fill out for me. I said no, I have already filled it out. I spent the next 20 minutes or so explaining to her the protest, the connection to Lockheed Martin, while she made notes about what I was saying. I said that our freedom was on the line, I explained the Patriot Act, the sell out of Canada, the fact that we had protested in the past and when we won, they simply changed the rules. I explained the importance of Statscan jobs, the right to our sovereign nation and why my form was filled out in such a way as to not be read by LM software. It was funny because she kept waiting for me to stop my rant so she could ask me the questions, but finally when I said, 'I will not assist in any way with the threat to our security, I will not provide you with information that can be fed into LM software and then used by a foreign government. I filled it out once, I mailed it and that is all I am doing.' At that point she knew I was serious.<br /> <br /> She said well maybe you missed a question. So I said, ask them which question I missed and I'll be happy to answer it, but I am not filling out the form a second time, I have complied with the law and will do no more. Of course she needed my name and phone number, so I provided it to her. After she left I wondered how she knew which house to come to? I guess the forms were delivered via a map or something because we have no house numbers. Alberta also has a fairly high rate of non-compliance. <br /> <br /> I must say she was very interested in the protest as I explained it, she didn't know who LM was or anything about their involvement, but she made notes about what I was saying. So we will see if they need that question answered or not.

[Ontario]

I've been parusing this site for about 2 months now and reading everyones posts, so I figured I'd join in.<br /> <br /> I too have decided not to submit my census 2006 forms.<br /> <br /> I actually didn't want to submit my census 2002 forms but ended up doing so after much prodding from the local census taker who kept calling and leaving envelopes at my door. I did manage to delay submitting the forms until the 3rd month after the due date, and on top of that I lied when answering every single question. <br /> <br /> Regardless, I promised myself I wouldn't fill them out this time around. To avoid the hassles of census phonecalls, just before the census started I changed my telephone answering machine message to say "You have reached 416-XXX-XXXX, Please leave a message".<br /> <br /> The day I got my 2006 Forms, I laid down on the couch, openned the envelope, read the material, tore it to shreds, and pitched it directly into the trash can.<br /> <br /> Sorry, I don't have any "neat" or "exciting" stories to tell like some that I have read here about Census "Storm-Troopers" knocking at my door asking for my completed forms. Since the May due-date, I've found one message on my answering machine from the local taker stating that they didn't receive my form, and about a week later, I found one of those "reminder" cards in my mail-box. The message was deleted, and the card was trashed.<br /> <br /> I believe living in a rented apartment has most certainly been benefitial to my quest not to fill one of these things out. August is almost at an end and all is quiet in my neighbourhood.<br /> <br /> I've been reading about everyones reasons for boycotting the 2006 Census. Reasons such as LM's involvement, and general invasion of privacy.<br /> <br /> Although I highly agree with the above stated, I'd like to take the time to list my own personal reasons for not wanting to participate in the Stats Canada Census 2006.<br /> <br /> 1. Immigration:<br /> <br /> The Canadian Government is allowing too many minority-enthic groups into this country. Ethnic groups that have brought with them a sense of "entitlement" where they believe Canadians "owe" them something. When they don't get it or don't want to work for it, or don't want to follow the rules like everyone else does, they scream "racism". The refugees allowed into the country bring crime records with them, along with AIDS (As mentioned at the 2006 Summit) and other incurable diseases. They go straight to welfare and collect their $3000 a month HIV drug cocktails off the taxpayers back without ever having contributed to the Canadian Economy in the first place. The "don't-ask-don't-tell" policy with regards to "illegal ALIENS" is the reason our social services are over-burdened, school classes are over-crowded, and the health-care system is suffering (I now pay $40 a month in the form of a health tax premium since 2005). Apprenticeship in trades is down. Why would anyone go to school to become one when house-builders can hire "Ali-Babba" for $10 an hour instead of paying the $25 an hour the job is really worth. Immigration in any form has in effect "diluted" wages in every sector across the board in every industry. The only winners are Government and Rich Corporations as their expenses and overhead are much lower than they used to be.<br /> <br /> 2. Taxation without Representation:<br /> <br /> Too much of my pay-cheque goes to services I don't see, aren't able to use, aren't directed at me, or worse yet, I'm expected to have to pay another "top-up" fee when I go to use it while some welfare fucker get's to use it for free while I'm paying his share (Represented by the extra top-up fee I pay at the door). Stats Canada says that in my province, each completed census represents $1400 in transfer fees. Well, I KNOW I won't see any of that $1400 being applied to me, so why should someone else get that in the form of ESL training, child-care benefits for single mothers, after school programs, more basketball courts so the "Gangbanging" motherfuckers can shoot each other, etc etc etc.......Nope, if that $1400 is to be spent on anything, I want it wasted on trying to find me and get me to fill out the census form <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/twisted.gif' alt='Twisted Evil'> <br /> <br /> 3. Family Courts and Women's Interest Groups:<br /> <br /> Let me start by saying that I am a single/never married male in my 30's and in a relationship with a woman. I have my own place, a car, debt free, and make good money. I have no children and because of what I am about to say.................may never have any. <br /> <br /> The Government is pandering to the womens interest groups. All sorts of contributions are made to these organizations every year in hundreds of millions of dollars. One of the biggest is the Women's march for Breast Cancer research. WHY ISN'T ANYTHING GOING TO PROSTATE CANCER RESEARCH FOR MEN????????<br /> <br /> There are 300 shelters in my province for woman suffers of domestic violence, however only 3 for men. Why is that? Are men not important???? Are you saying husbands are not being abused by their wives??? Is a man's life not important???? <br /> <br /> With regards to mens' health rights, does anyone here find it interesting that with all the new strides being made in medicine that there is NO MALE BIRTH CONTROL PILL ON THE MARKET?????????????<br /> <br /> Yep, men are the NEW second class citizens in Canada <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/evil.gif' alt='Evil'> <br /> <br /> The family court system is TOTALLY geared towards women. Men don't get a fair shake. In most cases, if child abuse in the house is instigated by the woman, chances are the courts will still award her primary custody as well as a nice hefty paycheck for child support and spousal support so that she can move her new "boyfriend" into the house while hubby moves into government housing (if he's lucky) and has the pleasure of eating Kraft Dinner every night until one day he commits suicide. <br /> <br /> Time and time again I see all the news programs with single mothers crying about not having enough money or family-geared programs to support them and their 7 kids <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/eek.gif' alt='Eek!'> !!!! Who the fuck do they think they are? Yep, women won't take any responsibility for their own actions. With them it's all me me me me!!! Suck it up butter-cup and stop whoring around with all the street-bums!<br /> <br /> In conclusion, my reasons for boycotting this census is the only way I can make clear my message to the Government of Canada that I'm pissed off with how things have been going over the past 15 years. I'm not going to sit by and take it anymore. I've been in the workforce far to long and see how the chips are being stacked against me. I'll gladly recite my concerns in a courtroom if that's what it comes down to<br /> by not filling out the forms. I'll be screwed by then anyways (what, with a criminal record for failure to comply with Stats-Can). I'll have passed the preverbial "line of no return". May as well go with it.<br /> <br /> Cheers<br /> <br />

[rearguard]

"Well, I KNOW I won't see any of that $1400 being applied to me"<br /> <br /> You got that one right!<br /> <br /> "I have no children and because of what I am about to say.................may never have any"<br /> <br /> Government stupidity and coercion should NEVER be a reason for not doing what you think is best for you, especially when it comes to having children or not. As we "decide" not to have children of our own, the government uses that as an excuse to raise the costs associated with having children even higher, while opening the immigration flood gates even wider to make up for the drop in population. I'm NOT against immigration, but I'm against stupidity, greed, and unjustified coercion.<br />

[wasjod]

Immigration? Should be no such thing, no borders should exist, no welfare, corporations should not have the right to charter, no taxes, politicians should not be paid a living wage, there, my way to solve all the problems of the world. You get your pay you should get every penny and then YOU decide what YOU want to pay into. If no government handouts existed then we would get only people who wanted to work over here. If you don't like the evil brown people then get rid of the handouts and your "lazy" immigrant problem is solved. Me, right now 20,000 mexicans in Calgary would sure make the cost of housing come down. It is not my right nor your right to make a set wage or to have a job, we must earn it. I had to move to the UK when I finished uni to get full-time work. I could have stayed in Canada and bitched and moaned like the dumb fuck redneck Albertan that I am but I decided I wanted money more. If you hate the government then wake up, electing another party does nothing to change things, we have had NDP, Conservative and Liberal federal governments, all hated by people, that is reality. Even electing CAP MP's would do squat. Do you honestly believe that your team will change things? Hahahahaha!! As far as the census goes does any party ask for its abolition? Does any party go on and on about what a waste of money it is or do they instead talk about how they would change it, how they would make it more relevant, how electing them would bring about revolutionary change, blah, blah, blah.<br /> Speaking of the census, I have a friend who has a deck in his back yard, a census worker actually went into the backyard and onto the deck, where he proceeded to knock on the door then sit down on a deck chair for 5 minutes. What is with this hanging around crap? Since when could they just walk into our backyards and sit down on our decks, excuse me? Bring on the end of August.

[disfasia]

I have just spent the last week looking for an obstetrician--yes, a doctor. Did I get one? NO! I am furious as hell that I can't get a doctor (I am seriously considering going to a veterinarian) and yet, this bloody government tells us the census helps us with services!!! Where!? I am a forty year old university professor who has spent 50+ hours on the phone looking for an obstetrician and I am considering having the child in a bus station. Exaggeration? A tad. Then, just ten minutes ago, I received a knock from a census worker, and I said, "Look, I left the United States to not give money to a terrorist organisation and I'll be damned if I am giving an industry of death from that country (which shares with the military by the way) my information. I am not doing the census." He repeated, "You are not doing it?" about to churn out the drawing and quartering I would have to undergo, and I just said "good day" and closed the door. His name was Abdelsalam. What is the Canadian government doing? And it is clear that Abdelsalam is just a guy who needed a job and is doing it. <br /> <br /> What I want to know, doesn't any anti-terrorism legislation in Canada count against this? I mean by helping out the US government and organisation that make arms of mass destruction, we would be acting against even the Geneva Conventions, n'est pas?<br /> <br /> Is there a lawyer who is boycotting the census?<br /> <br /> Peace,<br /> <br /> disfasia

[disfasia]

Here here, Double double. Ok, that sounds weird, but you know what I mean. I complete agree with you. The issue is that we are obligated to complete this bloody thing--though the LM issue is a tangential yet important reason IN ADDITION, not to do it. What I have noticed here in Montreal is that many people are frightened easily, and the threats of a fine, imprisonment and/or criminal record are simply disgusting. <br /> <br /> And nobody with a reasonable amount of intelligence buys the pretext that the census is important for building schools, roads, hospitals, etc. This is rubbish and is an excuse to do nothing. Were this true, I would not have to spend 50+ hours in the past week on the phone looking for a doctor. <br /> <br /> Historically, the flow of information in the 19th century necessitated such collections because people did not move around so much, so quickly and most importantly, there were no deeply-rooted bureaucratic structures which recorded such information and most importantly, there were no computers. Today, just by looking at income tax reports, hospital entry records, students enrolled in x district and internet service providers, staticians can tell a lot about a city, a community and their needs. <br /> <br /> Can we file a class action suit against the government? Is there no legal protection of our civil liberties?<br /> <br /> Peace,<br /> <br /> disfasia

[rearguard]

[QUOTE BY= disfasia]<br /> Can we file a class action suit against the government? Is there no legal protection of our civil liberties?<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Unfortunately, the answer is "No". The government can decree for whatever reason it chooses to ignore your supposedly guaranteed fundamental rights, and this ugly fact is clearly stated right in the first clause of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms</a>. See below for the governments explanation of why our guaranteed fundamental rights are not actually guaranteed (emphases added):<br /> <br /> <i>However, the Charter also recognizes that, in a democracy, <strong>rights and freedoms are not absolute</strong>. For instance, freedom of expression is guaranteed, but no one is free to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre, to slander someone or to spread hate propaganda. In Canada, <strong>Parliament or a provincial legislature can limit fundamental rights</strong>, but only if that government can establish that the limit is reasonable, is prescribed by law, and can be justified in a free and democratic society. This allows for the balancing of the interests of society against the interests of individuals to determine if limits on individual rights can be justified.</i> <a href="http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/dept/pub/just/CSJ_page7.html"> Source</a><br /> <br /> In the above, there's plenty of reassuring but utterly meaningless words. For example, what does <i>"can be justified in a free and democratic society"</i> mean, and who is the dictator that gets to erase a fundamental right to balance <i>"the interests of society against the interests of individuals"</i>? <br /> <br /> The Charter is in fact a misleading document, since it claims that we have guaranteed fundamental rights, yet in the first sentence <a href="http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/index.html#garantie">it states that our guaranteed rights are anything but guaranteed</a>.<br /> <br /> <i>1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.</i><br /> <br /> To see some scary examples showing the trampling of our illusory fundamental rights in action, look at these recent postings here at Vive:<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20060821142135801">What is "lawful access"?</a><br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20060821232802907">Who Must Report Suspicious Transactions?</a><br /> <br /> The trampling of our rights with respect to the census is a minor problem when compared to the above, and this is just a sample of what's been happening to our "free and democratic" society.<br />

[disfasia]

Thanks double double for that information. But to me the census is not smaller or greater as a problem--it is all quite problematic because if one contributes to a system economically, one must maintain the right to contest that system--and the right to contest must never be made illegal. Drafting men into the armed services, saying no to census, and even those who do not utilise any tax monies (ie. a hermit in the forest) should be free to forego taxes. <br /> <br /> There is, it would seem, no fair representation in this country then.

[Milton]

That is correct, there is no fair representation in this country. How could an elected representative represent 10,000 to 100,000 or more people? Can't be done. The system needs to be overhauled. We need government by rerferendum.

[rearguard]

[QUOTE BY= disfasia] to me the census is not smaller or greater as a problem[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I see your point, and I have to agree. The problem with the census is no more or less of the same basic problem we face everywhere else.<br /> <br /> BTW I'm "rearguard", not "double double", which is a forum designation assigned to my username based on perhaps the number of posts I've made or how long I've been a member - I'm not sure.<br />

[rearguard]

There's some interesting and entertaining updates at <a href="http://home.primus.ca/~donrogers/postcensus/index.htm">CountMeOut.ca</a>