[rearguard]

FYI: I found this Vancouver Sun report dated July 14.<br><br><br /> <a href="http://www.canada.com/globaltv/bc/news/story.html?id=09772817-c222-4c7a-8366-c96a2247e86d&k=57524">Census collection called a 'screw-up'<br /> Abysmal pay system, disorganization ex-enumerator's complaints</a><br /> <br><br><br /> You may notice that there's no mention of the on going protest, instead it's 100% due to 'apathy'. I submitted this article for Vives front page, hope it makes it.<br />

[Milton]

That explains the lack of follow ups on my refusal, Edmonton must have a dearth of census workers. Good post rearguard.

[yugnats]

its great to see canadians standing up for something they believe in!<br /> <br /> my wife and i have been getting the odd call from stats can and we received the forms in the mail. we informed the last stats can caller we were NOT filling out the census because of the lockheed/martin contract- the caller said they knew nothing of it and we would simply be fined if we didn't fill it out. i told him he has our correct address and i look forward to talking to the police- that was 3 weeks ago.<br /> <br /> 3 days ago a friend of mine said a stats can worker was at his workplace(canadian tire) and was harrasing him and other workers to fill out a census.<br /> <br /> today, a census worker went to my wifes place of work and tried intimidating her to fill it out. she said he got angry initially when she told him she wasn't filling it out and that right now she was busy putting stock away. after he got so mad my wife also mentioned to him "jeez, don't take it personal- i just dont want to fill it out." and the guy was saying things like: "Well, i do take it personally if you dont fill it out- i dont get paid if you dont and i have a family to support." now doesnt that sound crazy. needless to say i wasn't there when this happened and we are considering filing a harrasement charge. he said he would be back to speak to me to "get it straightened out"- i would LOVE for them to try and charge me!<br /> <br /> oh yeah, i'm in nova scotia

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= yugnats]<br /> 3 days ago a friend of mine said a stats can worker was at his workplace(canadian tire) and was harrasing him and other workers to fill out a census.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Ok, forgive me if I'm misinformed, but Government agencies aren't supposed to be able to share information between them, right? So Stats can should have no way to find out from Revenue or Taxation where you work. Why does stats can know where your friend works? If they know where he works, why do they need to know how much he makes? If they know where he works, they must know his name, so why ask again?<br /> <br /> The longer this census is taking the more I question the need for any of this information. Especially under the guise of 'government subsidies and transfer payments'.

[Angelo]

I feel as though I'm being hunted. I refuse to fill out the 2006 census for many reasons, though I never expected this type of consistent pressure. This type of behaviour on the part of the government and the hired reps only makes me more resolute. Today I refused to answer my door (again) and to my amazement the rep actually tried my door handle...<br /> <br /> I too was handed a long form (last month), with its extensive question list, after initially receiving a short form, and quite honestly found this type of personal probing on the part of the government in direct opposition to my sense of personal choice and freedom.<br /> <br /> Count my head would you oh government, you have taxation records, birth certificates, drivers licenses... that is well enough, must you have every detail of my life recorded and catalogued? What kind of 'democratic' nation hires private foreign armament companies to compile the personal information of its nationals? <br /> <br /> What is the real purpose of this census? And who benefits most from the information gathered? <br /> <br /> I will go to jail if need be, and my story will be told.<br /> <br /> Angelo - From Ontario

[rearguard]

So now they are getting really dirty, handing out the long form to place more pressure on those who have not yet filled in the short form. <br /> <br /> "Hey suckers. It's still not too late to fill in the short form."<br /> <br /> <a href="http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/index.html">Canadian charter of rights and freedoms</a><br /> <br /> 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:<br /> <br /> a) freedom of conscience and religion; <br /> b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication; <br /> c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and <br /> d) freedom of association. <br /> <br /> 8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.<br /> <br /> None of this appears to be true considering the actions of the government, and in fact the very first clause of the Charter allows the Charter to be nullified by law: <br /> <br /> 1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it <strong>subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.</strong><br /> <br /> I don't see anything in the Charter that requires an arbitrary limit, and due to unspecified limits there certainly is no 'guarantee of rights and freedoms' as is claimed, therefore the document itself is fraudulent since by its very nature, clause (1) contradicts itself.<br /> <br /> If the Charter were taken literally with a true 'gaurantee', I'd have the right to remain silent, and to not be subject to an unreasonable search, and I'd be able to voice my opposition to the census by refusing to cooperate.<br /> <br /> A mandatory census is not essential, and can be conducted through a truely voluntary random sampling, that's what basic statistics is all about. Stats Can confuses the issue by asking for "cooperation", however there's no cooperation when you are being coerced into complying through threats made against your livelihood and through constant harassment from Stats Can agents phoning and knocking on your door.<br /> <br /> What's going on here is simply wrong. Canada is supposed to be a free and democratic country, so why do I have to submit to the census, escpecially when I conscientiously disaggree with how it's being conducted? (e.g., use of a US based weapons manufacturer, threats against my personal freedom should I not comply, etc).<br />

[wasjod]

I came home today from work to find not one but two census forms between my doors. I had a short form and a long form between my doors with a hand written note,<br /> <br /> "Please fill out one of these forms please."<br /> <br /> What? I wrote a note back with the forms left on my doorstep,<br /> <br /> <br /> "No."<br /> <br /> If anyone gets a court order please let me know so I can phone Stats Can and tell them to do the same to me.

[rearguard]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb] The longer this census is taking the more I question the need for any of this information. Especially under the guise of 'government subsidies and transfer payments'.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Dr Caleb, I'm glad you brought this question up in my mind. For some reason I overlooked the in-your-face propaganda telling us about transfer payments. <br /> <br /> I have not considered transfer payments before, so I do not fully understand the need for it, or even how it works. However, I know that one way to control a group of people is to place them on welfare so that they become dependent on the welfare and unable to care for themselves without it.<br /> <br /> Since transfer payments imply that collected tax money is allocated to a province based on its population, and because the census is being used to gather up the exact population counts by province, then the statistical nature of the census is no more and it becomes an accounting process, thus justifying the mandatory requirement.<br /> <br /> Ah, there's so much art in the management and manipulation of peoples minds.<br /> <br /> The more 'protection' and 'welfare' we accept from a forever caring government, the more we enslave ourselves before it.

[yugnats]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb]<br /> <br /> Ok, forgive me if I'm misinformed, but Government agencies aren't supposed to be able to share information between them, right? So Stats can should have no way to find out from Revenue or Taxation where you work. Why does stats can know where your friend works? If they know where he works, why do they need to know how much he makes? If they know where he works, they must know his name, so why ask again?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> i asked him and apparently the StatsCan person asked his neighbor where he worked!

[Milton]

Welfare was a part of the social safety net, it was never welfare but it was better than nothing fare. It pumps money into communities where there aren't enough viable employment opportunities to go around.<br /> <br /> Transfer payments send tax money, via Ottawa, from the have provinces to the have less provinces. Fascists control the economy, so speeches about welfare enslaving people are really about transferring more costs to the middle and lower classes. It taxes the strength of the middle and lower classes. <br /> <br /> Corporate welfare, however, should be abolished. No more depreciation and depletion allowances. No more free lunches. No more limited liability. 100% accountability allthe time!

[Brother Jonathan]

[QUOTE by Dr Caleb] Government agencies aren’t supposed to be able to share information between them, right? So Stats Can should have no way to find out from Revenue or Taxation where you work.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> You may wish to read the <i><a href="http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/S-19/text.html">Statistics Act</a></i> for yourself, in particular § 24: Stats Can is explicitly allowed access to tax records.

[kouan]

So if the Stats Can office can access tax records, what is the point of the whole exercise ? From the tax roles they can determine income, address, health, dependents and depending on what is declared via T3 forms, how much savings exist. Further, they can look at general health via medical expenses.<br /> <br /> So again, what is the point of the census exercise ?

[Brother Jonathan]

[QUOTE by kouan] So if the Stats Can office can access tax records, what is the point of the whole exercise ?[/QUOTE]<br /> You may wish to read the <i><a href="http://lois.justice.gc.ca/fr/S-19/texte.html">Loi sur la statistique</a></i> yourself, in particular §§ 19 – 22: Stats Can is legally required to hold a census of population every five years, and is allowed to ask questions that aren’t on the tax forms.<br /> <br /> Another point of the census can be found in the <i>Loi constitutionnelle de 1982</i>; I’ll leave the discovery of what that could be as an exercise for curious readers.

[Peacenik62]

Here it is, August 7th, and have just completed my census form (spoiled with multiple answers and comments re Lockheed). Did not use black or blue pen as ordered. Wrote 'Decline to answer' in several places. The little census people have visited my house three times but only yesterday (Sunday!) was I at home.<br /> Having been around a long time, I've completed before but not this time.<br />

[rearguard]

[QUOTE BY= Brother Jonathan]Stats Can is legally required to hold a census of population every five years, and is allowed to ask questions that aren’t on the tax forms.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Stats Can can pretty much ask any question that you'll end up being "legally" coerced into answering. The Statistics Act casts a very broad and highly subjective limit on what questions may be asked, essentially there's no defined limit unless you risk prison time (if you refuse) and challenge Stats Can directly through the courts, and of course assuming the Supreme court agrees with your challenge - in other words, Stats Can can push the limits very high.<br />