[Curtman]

Dayseed Dayseed:

It's the same bullshit nonsense paranoid persecution complex that lets fools with keyboards spout

You are fixated.. Take a breath. If you are saying that nobody has the right to question the actions of Harper and Bill Blair because police are involved, then please... Fuck off.

[Dayseed]

Curtman Curtman:

Dayseed Dayseed:

It's the same bullshit nonsense paranoid persecution complex that lets fools with keyboards spout

You are fixated.. Take a breath. If you are saying that nobody has the right to question the actions of Harper and Bill Blair because police are involved, then please... Fuck off.

Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth, but you're not smart enough to do it.

However, I notice that you conveniently skipped the following to "fixate" on one comment you thought you could win.

Here's what you skipped:

irstly, spell Black Bloc correctly. It'd show that you know something about that which you speak.

Secondly, $1,000,000,000 does not go solely to bringing in the police at the G20. Perhaps a quarter of that did. Remember, that covered the G8 AND the G20. Don't go letting any of those facts hurt your pointy little head though.

Thirdly, the police have a greater mandate than rushing to interfere with the Black Bloc wherever it be found. Were the police to simply rush the anarchists at first blush, they may find themselves outnumbered or drawn away from their overall goal of maintaining security around the G20 Summit. Simply because you can't fathom tactics greater than what works for you and your World of Warcraft guild doesn't mean the police can't either.

Fourthly, Toronto Police went and filmed their interactions too. Have you bothered to look at their footage? No? Why bother then huh, it must be doctored...

Fifthly, had it ever occurred to you that the people on YouTube are....lying to you? Don't worry about it though, just watch Loose Change a few times more and you'll be back to believing anarchists.

Sixthly, try and get some consistency. Either the police were too heavy handed in beating up protesters or they were too lenient in letting the Black Bloc burn down Toronto.

By the way, is this your dad?

[andyt]

Dayseed Dayseed:

Sixthly, try and get some consistency. Either the police were too heavy handed in beating up protesters or they were too lenient in letting the Black Bloc burn down Toronto.

Fix these errors.

Very nice example of a false dilemma. The police were too heavy handed in beating up legit protesters, and they were too lenient in letting the Black Bloc "burn down Toronto?" (WTF?) Can your mind stretch itself to encompass he concept that both are possible?

Dayseed Dayseed:

Thirdly, the police have a greater mandate than rushing to interfere with the Black Bloc wherever it be found.

You mean like rushing to interfere with peaceful demonstrators?


Finally, every estimate I've heard pegged security costs at about 1 billion, not 1/4 billion. Maybe we'll never know the true total, but these things usually don't go under budget.

[Dayseed]

andyt andyt:

Dayseed Dayseed:

Very nice example of a false dilemma. The police were too heavy handed in beating up legit protesters, and they were too lenient in letting the Black Bloc "burn down Toronto?" (WTF?) Can your mind stretch itself to encompass he concept that both are possible?

Sure both are possible, but I'm critiquing Curtman's arguments, not police tactics.

$1:

You mean like rushing to interfere with peaceful demonstrators?

You're going to have to show me specific examples of rushing to interfere with peaceful demonstrators. How about the girls singing to the riot cops "You're sexy, you're cute, take off your riot suit?" Were they interfered with? The 25,000 that marched around, were they interfered with? Perhaps you'd want to specify.

$1:

Finally, every estimate I've heard pegged security costs at about 1 billion, not 1/4 billion. Maybe we'll never know the true total, but these things usually don't go under budget.

Okay, you missed the point quite a bit. The total cost for hosting the summit was 1.1 billion, of which 900 million went to security. This is across two sites, the G8 AND the G20. They're separate events and the same cops, for the most part, weren't used at both. And not all of that money went to renting and housing cops in Toronto; the security fence was erected, security guards were hired and trained in both venues. The trailer park created for the police to sleep in the G8 apparently was more expensive than the cost of the hotels in the G20; not that either one was cheap. So, given all that, I'd assume that $250,000,000 (no small sum either) was used to rent and house cops for the G20.

Therefore, it's simply bad math to assume that because the total bill was 1,000,000,000, all of it went to one thing. It's like assuming the $40,000 for your car was ALL wrapped up in the cost of the transmission and then going around bragging about a $40K engine.

[Curtman]

Dayseed Dayseed:

Here's what you skipped:

Yeah, I passed on your rant about Warcraft and spelling errors.

[EyeBrock]

I loved the warcraft bit. I can see you in action now curty-poos.

[hurley_108]

Y'all like YouTube videos?

[Dayseed]

Curtman Curtman:

Dayseed Dayseed:

Here's what you skipped:

Yeah, I passed on your rant about Warcraft and spelling errors.

That's two. There were four. Shall I include the ones you missed again?

Here they are:

Secondly, $1,000,000,000 does not go solely to bringing in the police at the G20. Perhaps a quarter of that did. Remember, that covered the G8 AND the G20. Don't go letting any of those facts hurt your pointy little head though.

Thirdly, the police have a greater mandate than rushing to interfere with the Black Bloc wherever it be found. Were the police to simply rush the anarchists at first blush, they may find themselves outnumbered or drawn away from their overall goal of maintaining security around the G20 Summit. Simply because you can't fathom tactics greater than what works for you and your World of Warcraft guild doesn't mean the police can't either.

Fourthly, Toronto Police went and filmed their interactions too. Have you bothered to look at their footage? No? Why bother then huh, it must be doctored...

Fifthly, had it ever occurred to you that the people on YouTube are....lying to you? Don't worry about it though, just watch Loose Change a few times more and you'll be back to believing anarchists.

Sixthly, try and get some consistency. Either the police were too heavy handed in beating up protesters or they were too lenient in letting the Black Bloc burn down Toronto.

The police tactics one remains because the only part you objected to was you embarrassing your World of Warcraft guild.

And why are you embarrassed about your dad's actions at the Eaton Centre? Why weren't you there to help him? Is it because you needed a phone to call him?

You're getting pwned here Curty, you need to bring your A-game or just go home and cry like a whipped suck.

[andyt]

Dayseed Dayseed:

andyt andyt:

Dayseed Dayseed:

Very nice example of a false dilemma. The police were too heavy handed in beating up legit protesters, and they were too lenient in letting the Black Bloc "burn down Toronto?" (WTF?) Can your mind stretch itself to encompass he concept that both are possible?

Sure both are possible, but I'm critiquing Curtman's arguments, not police tactics.

$1:

You mean like rushing to interfere with peaceful demonstrators?

You're going to have to show me specific examples of rushing to interfere with peaceful demonstrators. How about the girls singing to the riot cops "You're sexy, you're cute, take off your riot suit?" Were they interfered with? The 25,000 that marched around, were they interfered with? Perhaps you'd want to specify.

And Curtman, validly, IMO, is critiquing the police.


As for rushing peaceful demonstrators, what about these:

another angle:

What about these ones:

[Zipperfish]

That national anthem was horribly out of tune. AS a musician, I would have attacked those people too rather than listen to that.

[andyt]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

That national anthem was horribly out of tune. AS a musician, I would have attacked those people too rather than listen to that.

Well sure, but how about a sing off then, instead of using clubs.

[Benn]

andyt andyt:

And Curtman, validly, IMO, is critiquing the police.


As for rushing peaceful demonstrators, what about these:

another angle:


What about these ones:

Eyebrock actually already exposed "the rest of the story" on those vary videos like on page 2.

[Curtman]

andyt andyt:

And Curtman, validly, IMO, is critiquing the police.

Not exactly. I think the police were given an impossible mission. They're the fall guys, and any attempt to put the blame on the politicians ends with these guys calling us anarchists. It's the strangest conversation I've ever had on this forum..

[Benn]

Dayseed Dayseed:

By the way, is this your dad?

Likely, while Curtman was out on the street waiting for him in the car.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

No blame aportioned at all on the anarchists and those fine citizens who screamed at us and spat at us. They are blameless. They don't rate accountability in your world.

They just destroyed stuff and we tried to stop them yet all you can do is blame the police.

Well, Mr Conflator, I mean Carter, there you go again - the spitters and screamers didn't destroy stuff. They might not be playing well with others, but it's not a reason to charge at them them with clubs - you do have face shields, right. And are you seriously claming that during the worst of the black bloc damage, the police were present in any sort of numbers?