[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed]<br /> "When did you ever see a Mexican blow up the World Trade Center? Who do you think built the World Trade Center?" said David Gonzalez, 22, <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Mohawk Indians from Ontairo and Quebec. That's who I think built it. Probabally some Mexicans too, but I know the Mohawks are famed high steel workers.<br />

[Reverend Blair]

Very true, Doc. The Mohawks had a hand in most of the major cities in the east. It would be nice if more people knew about that. <br /> <br /> The US doesn't really work without illegal immigrants though. They are a huge part of the economy and they do the jobs nobody else wants to do. <br /> <br /> That's become a major part of the Canadian economy too. <br /> <br /> Somebody needs to find a real solution to this...like recognising that globalisation must come with the ability of people to move as freely as goods.

[Marcarc]

Recently there was a documentary on caribbeans and mexicans who also come to canada during harvest season to pick crops. Also, canada has had a long history of bringing in 'domestics' who, like the others, do the work no one else would do, and have ZERO rights.

[michou]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed]...some Mexians and Mestizos are even claiming they "built America".<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> All Imperial and Colonial powers throughout history have had to face and deal with their conquests. People migrations, either voluntary or forced (as with slavery) put the conquerors before their conquests, changing both beyond recognition. America is an economic empire and the myth of the American dream pulls in economic rejects towards its center from the periphery of its conquests. <br /> <br /> Mexicans may not have built America but they sure provided lots of land, stolen by the Americans. California, Texas and Arizona are just a few areas of 'Mexican' origin.<br /> <br /> America is now into building walls to keep people out. To the north and to the south, we will see them rise within the next decade. After that, I expect the walls will serve another purpose altogether, keeping people in. <br /> <br /> <br />

[Rural]

Is it just coincidence that Harper is just now cracking down on 100s of illegal immigrants in Canada, some of whom have been here for years, hold a steady job, pay taxes and are productive citizens. At the same time 1000s of CRIMINAL illegals who were long ago told to leave slip through the net and little is being done to find them. I gess its just easer to look good by ejecting those that are NOT hiding, keep the bad and reject the good, sounds normal!

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE]Mohawk Indians from Ontairo and Quebec. That's who I think built it. Probabally some Mexicans too, but I know the Mohawks are famed high steel workers.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> The majority of workers who built American were European. Mohawks may be famous for their bravery working at great heights but who engineered the building??? America would not be the superpower today were it a Mohawk nation so come on.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Rural] Is it just coincidence that Harper is just now cracking down on 100s of illegal immigrants in Canada, some of whom have been here for years, hold a steady job, pay taxes and are productive citizens. At the same time 1000s of CRIMINAL illegals who were long ago told to leave slip through the net and little is being done to find them. I gess its just easer to look good by ejecting those that are NOT hiding, keep the bad and reject the good, sounds normal![/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> It is true that many of the Portugese illegals Harper just deported were productive construction workers, while many legal immigrants and refugees are unemployed, underemployed or criminals. This said, Harper cannot easily change our immigration policy to allow in the good and the good to stay without risking losing the next election...

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE]The US doesn't really work without illegal immigrants though. They are a huge part of the economy and they do the jobs nobody else wants to do. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Who did the jobs before they came? That is absolute nonsense. Established Americans simply want to be paid a living wage. I guess your humanitarian nature only applies to minorities and the perceived downtrodden. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]That's become a major part of the Canadian economy too. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Doesn't make it a good thing.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Somebody needs to find a real solution to this...like recognising that globalisation must come with the ability of people to move as freely as goods. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Were Canadians or Americans ever consulted as to whether we wanted foreigners to be able to ignore our laws and stay here? How can we expect our other laws to be respected if we don't enforce our immigration laws?<br /> <br /> A soveriegn state must control its borders so you are a phoney if you claim to support Canadian sovereignty on Vive but want freedom of movement for everyone. Our culture will disappear and will be taken by foriegners.<br /> <br /> It doesn't matter if they come with a gun or a suitcase--all western nations arecomplicitly being invaded by foreigners.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Recently there was a documentary on caribbeans and mexicans who also come to canada during harvest season to pick crops. Also, canada has had a long history of bringing in 'domestics' who, like the others, do the work no one else would do, and have ZERO rights. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Yes. In fact, thanks to globalization the Mexicans in Leamington, Ontario are getting their own consulate or something. They stay like 9 months a year.<br /> <br /> I know you are big on rights but many come illegally so I have little sympathy. <br /> <br /> <br /> Also, stop telling us Canadians won't do the work--not all Canadians are lazy snobs. There are many hardworking down-to-earth Canadians who will do work. Just not for such low wages as our cost of living has skyrocketed while Mexicans can get by with much less.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE]<br /> All Imperial and Colonial powers throughout history have had to face and deal with their conquests.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Assuming they haven't already killed them off completely.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE] People migrations, either voluntary or forced (as with slavery) put the conquerors before their conquests, changing both beyond recognition. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> This is common historically yes, but remember that U.S. states like Texas were almost completely white so this invasion was allowed by the U.S. government. The U.S. army is in Iraq not protecting the borders but a wall could have been built cheaply a long time ago. It is even legal to shot Mexicans crossing the border in Texas.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]America is an economic empire and the myth of the American dream pulls in economic rejects towards its center from the periphery of its conquests[/QUOTE].<br /> <br /> More like just desperate stiffs willing to do work for much less. I don't think Mexicans expect the American dream--it is the educated Asian immigrants who expect the American (and Canadians) dreams. <br /> <br /> America I would honestly say is more of a military empire now than economic--I would say China is the economic empire. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Mexicans may not have built America but they sure provided lots of land, stolen by the Americans. California, Texas and Arizona are just a few areas of 'Mexican' origin.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Yes and remember in the 1930s, America deported over 2 MILLION Mexicans when it was much harder to co-ordinate with dirt roads and so forth. It would be quite easy today to deport many times that were there the will to identify them as foriegners--Bush would rather grant them citizenship and asylum. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]America is now into building walls to keep people out. To the north and to the south, we will see them rise within the next decade. After that, I expect the walls will serve another purpose altogether, keeping people in. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> For the cost of the war in Iraq for one month, the U.S. could build a wall the length of their border.<br /> <br /> We'll see what happend but it appears "diversity" may wreck the U.S.A. first if they don't resist it.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= michou] [QUOTE BY= Perturbed]...some Mexians and Mestizos are even claiming they "built America".<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> All Imperial and Colonial powers throughout history have had to face and deal with their conquests. People migrations, either voluntary or forced (as with slavery) put the conquerors before their conquests, changing both beyond recognition. America is an economic empire and the myth of the American dream pulls in economic rejects towards its center from the periphery of its conquests. <br /> <br /> Mexicans may not have built America but they sure provided lots of land, stolen by the Americans. California, Texas and Arizona are just a few areas of 'Mexican' origin.<br /> <br /> America is now into building walls to keep people out. To the north and to the south, we will see them rise within the next decade. After that, I expect the walls will serve another purpose altogether, keeping people in. <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I should add that if only a few million Americans out of 300 million gave a samn, they could easily prevent themselves from being swamped. <br /> <br /> You make a great point about cultures being changed beyond recognition but 2 things I need to add:<br /> <br /> 1 - Canada is not an imperial power yet allows in more non-traditional immgrants than America, (as does the province of Quebec) rapidly changing the local culture and demographic mix--so all white nations face oblivion regardless of imperial status or not,<br /> <br /> 2 - After the British conquered the French in Canada, they were able to negotiate quite well at times, including allowing the French at least on paper to keep their culture--the French are still here.

[michou]

Americans want decent wages and illegal immigrants are just trying to survive. If anyone benefits from the hiring of illegal immigrants in the U.S. it is not those being employed but those who are driving down wages and keeping everyone in a surviving mode. That's capitalism at work for you. <br /> <br /> You really don't get it do you Perturbed. We in 'western' countries are the economical empires and America is presently its center. Many are poor around the world so that we in western nations can be rich and have access to all the resources we can afford. Many are poor so just a few can be rich and the poor emigrate BECAUSE they are poor. This is a situation caused by a system bent on the exploitation of resources instead of one based on fair trade practices. Look at the news and you will see the same problem of disadvantaged people trying to migrate in order to survive, with Africans trying to reach Europe by any means and South Americans doing the same on our continent. <br /> <br /> Building walls, changing immigration laws or shooting those trying to escape poverty will not resolve anything and will certainly not stop the hopeless from trying again and again. <br /> There are too many like you Perturbed, locked into their little North American minds, saying : "It's mine. It's ALL mine and you can't have any of it. " <br /> Next time you put sugar in your coffee, think about all those who were ripped off so that someone like you could gratify his little needs and pay a "decent" price for it, without forgetting the middleman and the corps making a bundle of profit from it all. <br /> <br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE]Americans want decent wages and illegal immigrants are just trying to survive. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> That is roughly what I said above, but western nations cannot possibly save the 5 billion poor without ruining themselves. Come on michou, they are simply too overpopulated.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<br /> If anyone benefits from the hiring of illegal immigrants in the U.S. it is not those being employed but those who are driving down wages and keeping everyone in a surviving mode. That's capitalism at work for you. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> No it is BOTH who benefit. The western business class and the Mexican working class. (obviously much less so) Most western people are not rich. I alluded to the capitalist nature of illegal immigration above, it was already said. Nobody stated there were no cracks or unnecessary greed the way capitalism is practiced in America.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]You really don't get it do you Perturbed. We in 'western' countries are the economical empires and America is presently its center[/QUOTE].<br /> <br /> This is relatively new. In the past different western empires did not trade very much with each other. They were mercantilist. Trade was an act of warfare practically.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Many are poor around the world so that we in western nations can be rich and have access to all the resources we can afford. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Oh come on. That's such BS. People around the world would be poor regardless because most people in the world are not terribly talented and live in nations that are overpopulated, culturally backwards and economically stagnant. Us being poorer would not change that at all. This period of prosperity in the west is very recent and will end one day. Historically people in the west were mostly very poor. Even now many are poor so you are generalizing again. <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Many are poor so just a few can be rich and the poor emigrate BECAUSE they are poor.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Many are not poor just so a few can be rich. A few people happen to find a way to be rich--there is no conspiracy against the poor. There are certainly examples of scheming and greed, but that is life. That is the world. Some are more competitive and aggressive than others.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<br /> This is a situation caused by a system bent on the exploitation of resources instead of one based on fair trade practices. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> "Fair" for who? Why should powerful nations work hard just to surrender their influence to lesser nations who treat their own people way worse than we do?<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Look at the news and you will see the same problem of disadvantaged people trying to migrate in order to survive, with Africans trying to reach Europe by any means and South Americans doing the same on our continent. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> Yes there are many boat people trying to reach an already overcrowded Europe. There is no conpiracy against the non-white world. Europeans are simply so much better at creating prosperous, livable societies that non-whites are desperate to get in at all costs. Even eastern Europeans are often like this because of their economic and political problems. This is why western nations must enforce and CLOSE their borders to all but the most suitable of refugees and immigrants. We can afford to be selective and the U.S. And Canada can bring our troops home and defend our borders from the desperate. Too many people from failed nations will make us failed nations.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Building walls, changing immigration laws or shooting those trying to escape poverty will not resolve anything and will certainly not stop the hopeless from trying again and again. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Actually you are dead wrong. Canada was quite homogeneous when it had a different immigration policy. That was changed deliberately for severak reasons. Defending borders is very doable. The hopeless should be dealt with with severe force if they fail to get the message. Building part of a wall has already made a huge difference.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]There are too many like you Perturbed, locked into their little North American minds, saying : "It's mine. It's ALL mine and you can't have any of it. "[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Excuse me? We have been giving aid to these pathetic excuses for nations for decades without the consent of the working Canadians who foot the bill so the 3rd world rich and send more the Swiss bank accounts. They simply use it to increase their birth rate and flood us at an even greater rate.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Next time you put sugar in your coffee, think about all those who were ripped off so that someone like you could gratify his little needs and pay a "decent" price for it, without forgetting the middleman and the corps making a bundle of profit from it all. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Sugar is cheap because there is s surplus and it is available from many sources. I feel zero remorse for being in a superior nation that is falling down the tubes thanks to lunatics in our government who think like you--almost like one of the crazed French revolutionaries who were so focused on "equality" they forgot that meant they would never dominate the world again. <br /> <br /> Nexy time I put sugar in a drink--I'll watch the sob stories on CBC of whiners in failed nations begging to come to Canada and laugh at them, just for you michou!! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'> I love French Canadian babes.<br /> <br /> Put on the coffeemaker! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/lol.gif' alt='Laughing Out Loud'> Just stop blaming Canada and American for the fact half of Mexico doesn't have running water. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <br /> <br />

[Perturbed]

www.vdare.com/letters/tl_032806.htm<br /> <br /> Today’s Letter: A LA Firefighter Says Demonstrators Mean To Dominate<br /> From: Kevin Rudd<br /> <br /> Re: Juan Mann’s Column: Do Reconquistas Already Run Federal Immigration Bureaucracy?<br /> <br /> I was on duty just a few blocks from City Hall for the Saturday and Monday immigration reform demonstrations in Los Angeles. <br /> <br /> The marchers were well behaved. When we deal with celebrating basketball fans, one percent of Saturday's crowd would generate at least ten times the activity from law enforcement. <br /> <br /> While peaceful, though, one thing was perfectly clear. The vast majority of demonstrators were not marching with a hope to become Americans. <br /> <br /> Mexican and a few Central American flags clearly outnumbered the Red, White and Blue —even though organizers had told them to march with American flags. The purpose of the march was clearly meant to be a threat rather than an appeal. <br /> <br /> When the students walked out of school on Monday, my fire engine was met with a crowd of about 300 walking through the 2nd Street tunnel. Mexican flags outnumbered American flags 10 to 1. Many marchers were chanting "Viva Mexico." <br /> <br /> This symbolism should not be underestimated. Anyone with half a brain realizes the effect of attempting to influence U.S. law while marching with a foreign flag. <br /> <br /> For the media and our politicians to ignore this is reprehensible. What would outrage them? Maybe if they started paying them in pesos they might notice. <br /> <br /> While none of this surprised me—I substitute-taught for the Los Angeles Unified School District for four years—I hope it clears up the issue for some who still live in an immigration dream world. <br /> <br /> Foreign nationals have been filling our cities and are becoming bolder by the day. Things are relatively peaceful because they're getting what they want. When the numbers start to turn in their favor, the demands will increase or the blood will flow. <br />

[Perturbed]

This will tell you something about how much we should pity the poor, desperate of this pathetic, lazy, incompetent and corrupt country:<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0330/p09s02-coop.html">here</a><br /> <br /> from the March 30, 2006 edition <br /> <br /> Mexico prefers to export its poor, not uplift them<br /> <br /> At this week's summit, failed reforms under Fox should be the issue, not US actions.<br /> <br /> By George W. Grayson <br /> <br /> WILLIAMSBURG, VA. – At the parleys this week with his US and Canadian counterparts in Cancún, Mexican President Vicente Fox will press for more opportunities for his countrymen north of the Rio Grande. Specifically, he will argue for additional visas for Mexicans to enter the United States and Canada, the expansion of guest-worker schemes, and the "regularization" of illegal immigrants who reside throughout the continent. In a recent interview with CNN, the Mexican chief executive excoriated as "undemocratic" the extension of a wall on the US-Mexico border and called for the "orderly, safe, and legal" northbound flow of Mexicans, many of whom come from his home state of Guanajuato. <br /> Mexican legislators share Mr. Fox's goals. Silvia Hernández Enriquez, head of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations for North America, recently emphasized that the solution to the "structural phenomenon" of unlawful migration lies not with "walls or militarization" but with "understanding, cooperation, and joint responsibility."<br /> <br /> Such rhetoric would be more convincing if Mexican officials were making a good faith effort to uplift the 50 percent of their 106 million people who live in poverty. To his credit, Fox's "Opportunities" initiative has improved slightly the plight of the poorest of the poor. Still, neither he nor Mexico's lawmakers have advanced measures that would spur sustained growth, improve the quality of the workforce, curb unemployment, and obviate the flight of Mexicans abroad.<br /> <br /> Indeed, Mexico's leaders have turned hypocrisy from an art form into an exact science as they shirk their obligations to fellow citizens, while decrying efforts by the US senators and representatives to crack down on illegal immigration at the border and the workplace.<br /> <br /> What are some examples of this failure of responsibility?<br /> <br /> • When oil revenues are excluded, Mexico raises the equivalent of only 9 percent of its gross domestic product in taxes - a figure roughly equivalent to that of Haiti and far below the level of major Latin American nations. Not only is Mexico's collection rate ridiculously low, its fiscal regime is riddled with loopholes and exemptions, giving rise to widespread evasion. Congress has rebuffed efforts to reform the system.<br /> <br /> • Insufficient revenues mean that Mexico spends relatively little on two key elements of social mobility: Education commands just 5.3 percent of its GDP and healthcare only 6.10 percent, according to the World Bank's last comparative study.<br /> <br /> • A venal, "come-back-tomorrow" bureaucracy explains the 58 days it takes to open a business in Mexico compared with three days in Canada, five days in the US, nine days in Jamaica, and 27 days in Chile. Mexico's private sector estimates that 34 percent of the firms in the country made "extra official" payments to functionaries and legislators in 2004. These bribes totaled $11.2 billion and equaled 12 percent of GDP.<br /> <br /> • Transparency International, a nongovernmental organization, placed Mexico in a tie with Ghana, Panama, Peru, and Turkey for 65th among 158 countries surveyed for corruption.<br /> <br /> • Economic competition is constrained by the presence of inefficient, overstaffed state oil and electricity monopolies, as well as a small number of private corporations - closely linked to government big shots - that control telecommunications, television, food processing, transportation, construction, and cement. Politicians who talk about, much less propose, trust-busting measures are as rare as a snowfall in the Sonoran Desert.<br /> <br /> Geography, self-interests, and humanitarian concerns require North America's neighbors to cooperate on myriad issues, not the least of which is immigration. However, Mexico's power brokers have failed to make the difficult decisions necessary to use their nation's bountiful wealth to benefit the masses. Washington and Ottawa have every right to insist that Mexico's pampered elite act responsibly, rather than expecting US and Canadian taxpayers to shoulder burdens Mexico should assume.<br /> <br /> • George W. Grayson, who teaches government at the College of William & Mary, is the author of "Mesías Mexicano," forthcoming, a book about Mexican presidential front-runner Andrés Manuel López Obrador.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />