[z_whalen]

They may wanna think twice. Last I heard our "enlightened" population was branding them all fascists and warmongers.

[Stymiest]

[QUOTE BY= z_whalen] They may wanna think twice. Last I heard our "enlightened" population was branding them all fascists and warmongers.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />lol the big bad south is out to get us all

[lesouris]

The BBC has just reported that Immigration Canada's website has been visited by about 25 000 Americans since the election results came in (far over the usual amount). Paul Martin joked about such an exodus by saying, "We will except immigrants from everywhere... I do not see the need to give them refugee status." The BBC drew parallels with the Vietnam draft dodgers.

[Ed King]

Apparently the wait to get in is about six months. That would mean that we could take 150,000 of Bush's opponents off his hands in time for his birthday in July. Wouldn't that make a great present from Canada to the President of the United States? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'>

[michou]

Paul Martin may be laughing now but Canada could sitting on the edge of a major political crisis with this upcoming American influx of conscienscous refugees. <br />This is not just another story of the day that will be forgotten next week or that will soon blow over. <br /> <br />Contrary to popular belief, Americans are not all fascists and warmongers. <br />And contrary to lessouris's estimate, there are more than 1,000 liberal and progressists looking for an escape route from what Bush and his national security nuts have in store for them. <br /> <br />Will Canadians push them back and take refuge behind immigration laws for doing it or will they offer help by demanding changes to accomodate those American liberals seeking a better place to express their ideal society ? <br /> <br />How open of a society is Canada really ? Time and events will tell us soon enough.

[lesouris]

My main concern over this issue is that we really have no idea if these "refugees" will increase or decrease Canadian sovereignty. Will these new residents maintain strong ties with the US, or will they assimilate into Canadian society. Will they be bitter towards the American government, or will they want more Canadian ties with it? <br /> <br />Like many people, I really think Bush can't be trusted on the issue of reinstating the draft, and if he does, we can expect even more refugees. How will that affect Canada? <br /> <br />The only thing I'm absolutely certain about is that this new wave of American idealists (no matter how small), will give the Canadian left a needed shot in the arm.

[gaulois]

There will be rats and hypocrits leaving the boat and come here to extend their empire. These will definitely not help our Canadian Sovereingty. There will be disfranchised people that have just given up changing things from within the US. And there will be the ones that will "integrate". I can see a two solitudes problem shaping up. Our politicians may have to take a stance on these people.

[michou]

Rats and hypocrits ? Because they're liberals and free thinkers ? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/eek.gif' alt='Eek!'> <br /> <br />Before I make any further judgment on it, could you expand on this opinion of yours gaulois ?

[Brianne]

I'm more concerned about America than Canada if thousands of liberals flock to Canada. These people are obviously strong liberals, strong opponents of Bush, and if they all decide, "Well, that's that!" and leave the U.S., a really strong shift could happen. The liberals in the states (ha!) are needed to be a strong voice for alternatives, and if they aren't there, there will be no strong opposition. <br /> <br />Beyond that, Kerry was considered the absolute most liberal senator in the US. And he lost. Was this the last stand of liberal views, and if so, does it matter, really if all these people come to Canada? Is it going to make any difference? Not only that, but Kerry, as the most liberal, would still be a conservative in Canada; could an exodus of his supporters create a shift to the right in Canada?

[lesouris]

Okay, did anyone think four years ago that we'd ever actually be having this conversation? I think its so weird how much has changed. I mean, remember when the big thing was the "Brain Drain"? Well at least George Dubya's solved that problem for us.

[Kory Yamashita]

lesouris, the "Brain Drain" was a media concoction. They looked at the numbers leaving Canada for the states and panicked. They forgot to look at the numbers entering Canada from other countries. Example: doctors from South Africa. <br /> <br />And really, when a country's values are diverging by geographical region, isn't that a foreshadowing of the erosion of national unity? In ten years, we might be looking at some blue-coloured states asking to join Canada. <br /> <br />With an impending economic "readjustment", peak oil, or a rapid climatic shift, we could see things start to change a lot faster. We might lose Quebec. We might lose Alberta. We might gain Washington, Oregon, California, New Mexico, New York, etc. I'd be more worried about preparing ourselves for a lot more polarized debate South of the border and the subsequent power struggles, including the possibility of the eventual division of the "United" States.

[gaulois]

[QUOTE BY= michou] Rats and hypocrits ? Because they're liberals and free thinkers ? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/eek.gif' alt='Eek!'> <br /> <br />Before I make any further judgment on it, could you expand on this opinion of yours gaulois ? [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />No they will not be only Libs and Free Thinkers. Neocons will try to sneak through this if the boat is sinking. These are the truly dangerous people. Libs and Free Thinkers do not tend to be loaded with money and can't afford our property prices.

[z_whalen]

Ha I don't think there will be an influx of "free-thinkers." They wouldn't have enough to complain about here. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> But all kidding aside, I'm not sure this will have a positive impact on our society. I hate to generalize, but these are people who no longer believe in democracy, and lest we forget, Canada is a democracy. Now whether or not their dissatisfaction is justified is another discussion, but it's seems like these people have gotten the idea that if democracy doesn't work their way, they can always claim everyone else cheated. Just my opinion on the matter. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'>

[Kory Yamashita]

z_whalen, it's entirely possible that they are completely justified in abandoning "democracy" in the US. If the system's rigged (IF), then it's not democracy that they're abandoning; it's a manipulative autocratic dictatorship masquerading as a democracy that they're abandoning. <br /> <br />Now, I'm not saying that's necessarily the case, but from the reports that I'VE read, the US election was dubious at best. And if those "free-thinkers" read the same articles that I read then maybe they'd be justified in leaving. Besides, they have a lot more at stake here than we do. And heck, maybe they just don't want to live in a country run by Bush. Maybe they, for some inexplicable reason, think that Canada won't go down when the American debt bubble bursts. <br /> <br />I don't really have a strong opinion on this, I just generally lean towards accommodating people and doing so with a healthy degree of optimism.

[z_whalen]

Yah sure, I say let them come if they want. But there is definitely no reason to be giving them special status among immigrants. I think we should be more accomadating to immigrants who actually live under dictatorships, not ones who only imagine they do.