[Marcarc]

I don't think it's a question of 'trust' but expediency. As any viewer of the US should be able to see, they will be doing the missile defense system with or without us. We are already in the doghouse with our largest trading partner, much as I dislike Martin I'd assume he's doing what anybody would when facing a crazy person-agree. <br /> No doubt he's also thinking that the missile defence system would take years to implement and like star wars, may never actually come to fruition. We already know that precision weapons aren't nearly as precise as we thought, so their ambitions may be exceeding their grasp.

[Dr Caleb]

Let them do BMD without us. The second Nuclear Arms race <a href='http://www.canada.com/news/world/story.html?id=3379cc95-de1e-4221-9863-5d667ed4d213'>begins.</a><p>

[robert_fisher]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Their ambitions may be exceeding their grasp.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Exactly. <br /> <br />To bad that the peak of US history will be Clinton! <br /> <br />I don't understand why the people of the world allow their leaders to play Russian Roulette with their lives, why don't they stand up for themselves? <br /> <br />Probably because, like me: <br />They are waiting for the angry mob with pitch forks and torches to come and <b>pick them up</b>, instead of <b>leading</b> the real battle for our safety. <br /> <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= KevinGagnon]So what is it.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />You answered your own question: <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= KevinGagnon]Martin only said what he knew people wanted to hear. [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />It just depends on what type of <i>people</i> he is talking to! <a href="http://www.fbcamherst.org/images/Group%20People.JPG">You and I</a>, or <a href="http://odin.dep.no/archive/smkbilder/01/05/Regje035.jpg">them and theirs.</a> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />

[Marcarc]

I don't want anyone to conclude that I agree with Martin. I think there should be a referendum on it, so Martin would have an out. As it is, knowing Martin, I suspect we'll be doing more kowtowing than we're comfortable with. Of course, Canada has always played along with most of the american weapon development in the past, there's no reason to think now our politicians will suddenly start listening to us lowly canadian folk.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] I don't want anyone to conclude that I agree with Martin. I think there should be a referendum on it, so Martin would have an out. As it is, knowing Martin, I suspect we'll be doing more kowtowing than we're comfortable with. Of course, Canada has always played along with most of the american weapon development in the past, there's no reason to think now our politicians will suddenly start listening to us lowly canadian folk.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />This new arms race is more evidence that topics such as separatism and "western alienation" are really quite petty.

[Stymiest]

[QUOTE BY= robert_fisher] [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Their ambitions may be exceeding their grasp.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Exactly. <br /> <br />To bad that the peak of US history will be Clinton! <br /> <br />I don't understand why the people of the world allow their leaders to play Russian Roulette with their lives, why don't they stand up for themselves? <br /> <br />Probably because, like me: <br />They are waiting for the angry mob with pitch forks and torches to come and <b>pick them up</b>, instead of <b>leading</b> the real battle for our safety. <br /> <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= KevinGagnon]So what is it.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />You answered your own question: <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= KevinGagnon]Martin only said what he knew people wanted to hear. [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />It just depends on what type of <i>people</i> he is talking to! <a href="http://www.fbcamherst.org/images/Group%20People.JPG">You and I</a>, or <a href="http://odin.dep.no/archive/smkbilder/01/05/Regje035.jpg">them and theirs.</a> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />The United States are not even at their full power potential. Ever since the end of world war II they have been an Empire in Denial but now they are beginning to come to senses withn their power and I see a heavier US foreign policy for the foreseeable future.

[KevinGagnon]

[QUOTE]To bad that the peak of US history will be Clinton![/QUOTE]

I could have swore that I just read that same quote in Mel Hurtig's book "Rushing to Armageddon".

Kevin

[Marcarc]

Just wanted to disagree with that last post. In fact, the US was far more 'heavy handed' right after WWII. The US is having to wage this war far more differently than the korean war, when american protests were nonexistent, and the vietnam war, when protests took a decade. After WWII the US was responsible for murdering union organizers, politicians and activists first directly, then with direct intervention in Korea, then vietnam had to be curtailed (mostly because the business sector turned against it-not because of protests). <br /> In the seventies and eighties the US counted on its trained thugs from south american countries and providing arms and only rarely got directly involved when necessary. <br /> Keep in mind the Reagan speeches of the eighties. Remember how the US was going to be invaded by Nicaraguan hordes and so they had to wage war against those terrorists? Everything in the playbook now comes from those same characters from the eighties. <br /> Now though, as has been said, they're a well armed wounded animal. 9/11 showed the muslim world that the US was not so invincible, and that just one well timed attack can reduce the government to practical chaos. Already there are many commentators that have said that the idealism of america has been extinguished, in effect that the US has already lost this war because it no longer exists, only a military dictatorship remains. <br /> Also, we see that things are not working out so well in afghanistan or Iraq, we're already starting to hear about a draft and even high ranking generals are talking about being 'stretched too thin'. It's one thing to be the best equipped, but like Sun Tzu said in the art of war, one must have the moral upper hand. Combine this with the fact that they have virtually lost all allies among the people of the world and only those in fear remain loyal. So, things are not so grim as we would think. Even the american people are clearly divided, and with electoral fraud apparant, the warmongers are going to find a substancial defense among the nations of the world. <br />

[robert_fisher]

[QUOTE BY= Stymiest <br />The United States are not even at their full power potential. Ever since the end of world war II they have been an Empire in Denial but now they are beginning to come to senses withn their power and I see a heavier US foreign policy for the foreseeable future.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />So Stymiest once again our word definitions are mixed up. Power does not mean: <br /> <br />-A failing economy <br />-An untrusting world body <br />-51% of the vote <br />-Very few natural resources left <br />-No control over their own soldiers <br />-A debt of $7,452,652,424,625.36 <br />-Countries starting to trade with other currency (EURO) <br />-No Health Care for the people <br />-Little Education for the people <br />-A never ending war in the Middle East <br /> <br />I think, my friend, that you will find that the US is on the downward spiral. <br /> <br />And as for <br /> <br />[QUOTE]To bad that the peak of US history will be Clinton! [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />It was from the Mel Hurtig of the South AKA...Noam Chomsky. During Clintons Admin (for all his shortcummings) he was a good leader, he brought the number of nukes down in the US. For that he should be admired. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />

[Stymiest]

[QUOTE BY= robert_fisher] [QUOTE BY= Stymiest <br />The United States are not even at their full power potential. Ever since the end of world war II they have been an Empire in Denial but now they are beginning to come to senses withn their power and I see a heavier US foreign policy for the foreseeable future.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />So Stymiest once again our word definitions are mixed up. Power does not mean: <br /> <br />-A failing economy <br />-An untrusting world body <br />-51% of the vote <br />-Very few natural resources left <br />-No control over their own soldiers <br />-A debt of $7,452,652,424,625.36 <br />-Countries starting to trade with other currency (EURO) <br />-No Health Care for the people <br />-Little Education for the people <br />-A never ending war in the Middle East[/quote] <br /> <br />I think, my friend, that you will find that the US is on the downward spiral. <br /> <br />And as for <br /> <br />[QUOTE]To bad that the peak of US history will be Clinton! [/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />I can agree with you on some of this but most of these are overblown. Sure they have to pay for healthcare and schooling but the fact is the average US citizen lives better lvies then we do. The US is a capitalist society and they believe in a system that you can get ahead in. Just check how many people get transplants there compared to here per capita and you'll see what I am saying??? <br /> <br />The DOW Jones Industrial just closed above 10,000 today I would ahrdly call that failing and about the debt sure they have a huge debt but it doesn't seem to be affecting them to much. <br /> <br />The NO control over their soldiers is the one that amde me laugh the most!!!! LOL sure US soldiers have done some evil things but every groups has their bad apples. Trying to pin something like that on a whole group is just wrong Mr. Fisher and I think if you read into our military you will find the same things occur. <br /> <br />Using natural resources as a way of saying their empire is dying is possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The British Isles flourished as an empire for 400 years and look how many resoruces they have. <br /> <br />51% of the vote wow omg thats democracy live with it pussy. That just happens to be the largest margin of victory since 1988 so he must be doing something right <br /> <br />Oh and on the War get over it moron it is getting solved. Things don't happen overnight just calm your rocker and let it play out lol <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />

[arc628]

[QUOTE BY= Stymiest] <br />I can agree with you on some of this but most of these are overblown. Sure they have to pay for healthcare and schooling but the fact is the average US citizen lives better lvies then we do. The US is a capitalist society and they believe in a system that you can get ahead in. Just check how many people get transplants there compared to here per capita and you'll see what I am saying??? <br /> <br />The DOW Jones Industrial just closed above 10,000 today I would ahrdly call that failing and about the debt sure they have a huge debt but it doesn't seem to be affecting them to much. <br /> <br />The NO control over their soldiers is the one that amde me laugh the most!!!! LOL sure US soldiers have done some evil things but every groups has their bad apples. Trying to pin something like that on a whole group is just wrong Mr. Fisher and I think if you read into our military you will find the same things occur. <br /> <br />Using natural resources as a way of saying their empire is dying is possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The British Isles flourished as an empire for 400 years and look how many resoruces they have. <br /> <br />51% of the vote wow omg thats democracy live with it pussy. That just happens to be the largest margin of victory since 1988 so he must be doing something right <br /> <br />Oh and on the War get over it moron it is getting solved. Things don't happen overnight just calm your rocker and let it play out lol <br />[/QUOTE] <br />The average US citizen lives a better quality life than we do? Where the hell did you get that stat? The standard of living in the states is well below ours. And that other gem about "the largest margin of victory since 1988", actually the opposite is true. It was the smallest margin of victory for a sitting president since 1828! <br /><P><a href="http://mediamatters.org/items/200411150007">Mediamatters.org</a></P> <br />Now I now why you resort to calling people pussies and other childish name calling. It's because you have no idea what you are talking about. Try using google to verify the facts you pull out of your rear-end. <br />

[Marcarc]

The 'average' canadian leads a pretty good life. You are quite right that the US surpassed Canada in the United Nations study of the best countries to live in. However, we then moved up in the rankings again. There is a high level of bias in that study though. <br /> As far as economic strength though, most economic indicators have been slipping, and living standards in the US have been dropping since the 70's. <br /> I'd disagree with the 'out of control' soldiers, and don't agree that there are 'a few bad apples'. There is considerable video footage out there if you look and the deep racism is clear on behalf of the americans. Canadians showed the same in Somalia and anybody who thinks Canadians can't be as racist as americans is deluding themselves. <br /> If you've ever spent time in the military you would know that NOTHING you do is done without knowledge of superiors, unless they purposely don't want to know. This is an illegal war of oppression, this means that ALL american soldiers are guilty of that charge, just as german soldiers were charged at Nuremburg. The argument of 'just following orders' is not sufficient. Anybody who thinks the behaviour in the prisons there wasn't known by superiors doesn't know what military life is like. <br /> The ONLY reason the IMF hasn't taken over the american economy is that the world currency is based on the american dollar since bretton woods. More and more countries are bailing on this in favour of the euro. There is no doubt that, like Rome, Britain, Germany, etc., the americans can impose their dominance militarily. However, history has shown that when an empire has to impose its will by force everywhere, this is usually the final stage of their dominance. <br />

[Kory Yamashita]

The US is an empire of oil. It started to thrive with the invention of the automobile. And since then everything has been transformed to reflect this. Public transportation was privatised and sold to GM, who neglected the infrastructure, forcing more people to buy cars. Now the entire country is hopelessly dependent on oil for every basic need. <br /> <br />So what happens when peak oil hits? Look at what happened in the 70's when US peak oil hit. The US had to scramble to secure oil from other sources. Well what happens when the GLOBAL peak oil arrives (by best estimates, about 4 years ago)?? <br /> <br />The reason nature evolves a diversity of species is that more than one will serve a specific purpose. That way if one species goes extinct, another can take its place. Now apply this to oil. The US has failed to diversify its energy sources. It has built an empire on one single source of wealth. And that wealth is in finite supply and is shrinking VERY quickly. I'd say imperial US is counting its days...

[Stymiest]

[QUOTE BY= Kory Yamashita] The US is an empire of oil. It started to thrive with the invention of the automobile. And since then everything has been transformed to reflect this. Public transportation was privatised and sold to GM, who neglected the infrastructure, forcing more people to buy cars. Now the entire country is hopelessly dependent on oil for every basic need. <br /> <br />So what happens when peak oil hits? Look at what happened in the 70's when US peak oil hit. The US had to scramble to secure oil from other sources. Well what happens when the GLOBAL peak oil arrives (by best estimates, about 4 years ago)?? <br /> <br />The reason nature evolves a diversity of species is that more than one will serve a specific purpose. That way if one species goes extinct, another can take its place. Now apply this to oil. The US has failed to diversify its energy sources. It has built an empire on one single source of wealth. And that wealth is in finite supply and is shrinking VERY quickly. I'd say imperial US is counting its days...[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Sorry Kory but I don't buy the whole evil oil empire theory like most on this site. When Oil hits its peak a company will do what most companies do diversify.... That is what the US will do aswell.

[Kory Yamashita]

[QUOTE BY= Stymiest] [QUOTE BY= Kory Yamashita] The US is an empire of oil. It started to thrive with the invention of the automobile. And since then everything has been transformed to reflect this. Public transportation was privatised and sold to GM, who neglected the infrastructure, forcing more people to buy cars. Now the entire country is hopelessly dependent on oil for every basic need. <br /> <br />So what happens when peak oil hits? Look at what happened in the 70's when US peak oil hit. The US had to scramble to secure oil from other sources. Well what happens when the GLOBAL peak oil arrives (by best estimates, about 4 years ago)?? <br /> <br />The reason nature evolves a diversity of species is that more than one will serve a specific purpose. That way if one species goes extinct, another can take its place. Now apply this to oil. The US has failed to diversify its energy sources. It has built an empire on one single source of wealth. And that wealth is in finite supply and is shrinking VERY quickly. I'd say imperial US is counting its days...[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Sorry Kory but I don't buy the whole evil oil empire theory like most on this site. When Oil hits its peak a company will do what most companies do diversify.... That is what the US will do aswell. [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Don't buy the evil oil empire theory? Didn't you notice the US invasion of Iraq? <br /> <br />And when oil hits its peak, we already know the US has done nothing to diversify. Peak oil, by best estimates, occurred in the year 2000. Since then oil production has been decreasing annually. And rather than diversifying their energy sources and investing in mobile energy technology, such as hydrogen fuel cells, the US has been invading countries to secure the remaining oil for itself. Not only is the US addicted to oil, as I described above, they are also in denial about their addiction, just as they are in denial about peak oil. <br /> <br />If someone doesn't invest heavily in alternative energies VERY soon, we are going to see an economic recession like never before. I'm not saying the US is doomed; I'm saying that if they keep acting in the same arrogant way they have been lately, they won't look to diversify until it's too late. <br /> <br />Personally I don't think we should wait for Americans to come to their senses. We should build hydrogen fuel cell cars here in Canada. Hitler did it with the Volkswagon. Why not do the same thing here, but with hydrogen fuel cells and other alternative energy?