[N Say]

<a href="http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/02/22/mckenna-missile050222.html">here</a>'s what cbc has to say about it also. i hope it's all accurate.<br /> <br /> the yahoo thing said that 2/3 of canadians are opposed to the program; roughly the same number of people are against nafta, if ipsos-reid is anything to go by. there's lots of potential there too!

[KevinGagnon]

<br /> I hope to see this. I also need to see this to believe it. If Martin takes a firm stand on gay marriage, decriminalization of marijuana, and BMD. All I can say is that he is attracting my vote, making me personally believe in his leadership.<br /> <br /> If he can go against the U.S on all these issues, maybe Martin is the guy to actually reconsider changing NAFTA. I know this is probably far-fetched, but its worth having some hope I guess.<br /> <br /> My coworker was telling me today, that he seen on the news the Liberal's are seeking political help (backing) from Britain to decriminalize marijuana. I just can't seem to find where this news came from.<br /> <br /> Kevin

[Marcarc]

Come now, let's get real. I mean honestly, I'm a sucker as much as the next guy, I've been taken in some bad deals, but even I'm not gullible enough to think all those things about Paul Martin. Plain and simple the only reasons for this are his minority government. So as I said elsewhere, if they have another election, make sure you vote for the same person as last time.<br /> <br /> Harper can't be faulted for saying something stupid and having the eastern press jump all over it. Go and read the daily transcripts of our House of Commons sometime, you'll see gibberish far worse than that. Canadians seem to be as gullible as americans when it comes to words-McKenna already explained that they don't even know what the americans want from us in terms of BMD, they already have use of our airspace and most military manouvers in NORAD and NATO have us working closely together. <br /> <br /> Combine that with the pretty much accepted multi billion dollar increase in militarization when our cities, schools, environment and healthcare are crumbling and just about everything the US has asked for Canada bends over backward to give. But as long as Paul 'just says no' it seems some canadians will buy into it. No disrespect intended though, really, in canada's political environment I can understand a need to believe in mirages.

[KevinGagnon]

<br /> Good point Marcarc. I guess we do owe this to the minority government.<br /> <br /> Kevin

[lesouris]

[QUOTE BY= KevinGagnon] <br /> I hope to see this. I also need to see this to believe it. If Martin takes a firm stand on gay marriage, decriminalization of marijuana, and BMD. All I can say is that he is attracting my vote, making me personally believe in his leadership.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> If only it was Martin and not Chretien who took the Liberal Party's stance on SSM and Marijuana (probably just to create a positive legacy), I might be inclined to hope too. Martin doesn't make decisions. Some people call him Mr. Dithers, I just call him a jerk.<br /> <br /> I mean, Martin is like a shy accountant; he's good with numbers but when it comes to issues where people are yelling at him from both sides to do something, he makes any excuse to get out of that situation.

[fleur-de-lys]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national ... 50224.html<br /> <br /> <br /> I'm glad Martin said no to this, even if I still don't like him. The new Russian Topol missile resists to this shield. Anyway, it's very easy to mislead the shield, you just have to throw a lot of empty ( without explosives ) missiles at the same time of few true ones. <br /> <br /> * I wrote this post very fast and my english is not good so they probably have a lot of mistakes on it, please correct me if you want. Thanks

[Dino]

I agree with fleur-de-lys this is a good decision and I also can't stand Paul Martin. Jack Layton is right when he says if the Liberals had a majority we would be in it.<br /> <br /> I hope that Paul Martin loses the next election and please ,please let's hope Canada wakes up and votes NDP because it they don't and the liberals get a majority how many want to bet that Paul Martin will reverse his decision.

[Armageddon]

[QUOTE BY= dino] I agree with fleur-de-lys this is a good decision and I also can't stand Paul Martin. Jack Layton is right when he says if the Liberals had a majority we would be in it.<br /> <br /> I hope that Paul Martin loses the next election and please ,please let's hope Canada wakes up and votes NDP because it they don't and the liberals get a majority how many want to bet that Paul Martin will reverse his decision.[/QUOTE]<br /> I don't think the NDP will ever be in power. They're just too much into spending, no matter how good their programs look. All people can do is try to vote for Liberals who won't go for this whole "follow the leader (US)" crap. It's not hard, and even some of us could go and try for Parliament.

[Dino]

[QUOTE BY= Armageddon] <br /> I don't think the NDP will ever be in power. They're just too much into spending, no matter how good their programs look. All people can do is try to vote for Liberals who won't go for this whole "follow the leader (US)" crap. It's not hard, and even some of us could go and try for Parliament.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I disagree. Are progressive voters across Canada suppose to give up and let the Liberals destroy this country for there own personal gain? The only political party that cares about this country is the NDP. There's no hope with the Liberals who are giving coporations tax breaks while we have 1.1 million children living in poverty, 240,000 homeless people, insane student debt, the worst environment in the indutrialized world....(worse the george bush's america).The top 100 people in Canada have a combined wealth on 130 billion dollars and Paul Martin doesn't seem to think there's anything wrong with that.<br /> <br /> I believe the NDP can come to power. All the Quebec parties the Liberals, PQ and ADQ all believe there is a really big fiscal imbalance between Quebec and Ottawa let's just hope that Quebecers realize the only way things in this country will change is if they put there votes towards the NDP and help elect the NDP party in power.<br /> <br /> Last June 28 the final result was Liberals 37%, Conservatives 30% ,NDP 16% and Bloc 12.4%. Imagine if Quebec voters who vote Bloc (12.4% of the Canadian population) Liberal and green voters in Quebec are about 8% of the Canadians population put there votes towards the NDP it would be 16%+20.4%=36.4%. Now the NDP would be in the lead and what do you think would happen to the Liberal vote in english Canada? It would come crashing down and the NDP would be in power. <br /> <br /> Does this sound like crazy logic?<br /> <br /> Not to me. If Quebecers want more money coming towards Quebec they have to actually vote NDP. Because voting Bloc simply helps keep the Liberals in power to run this country so far to the right.

[Armageddon]

Yes, it would be all fine and dandy if Quebec voted for the NDP, but let's face it, they vote for the Liberals and the Bloc. Is there even ONE seat from Quebec occupied by a ND?<br /> I wouldn't mind voting for the NDP (if I was old enough), but from all I hear, they seem to be into making a whole bunch of programs, like that National Daycare Program (make it go along faster), which I don't think is necessary. And where to get the money for these programs? Why, from more taxes, which I wouldn't agree with. People should be able to own a majority of their income, not hand it over to the government.<br /> Again, with that wanting Quebec to vote NDP, how would you propose to do it? You have to have some BRILLIANT plan to do it, because they're set on being separatists.<br /> And I seriously doubt we're one of the heaviest polluters of the industrialized world. The US I think will hold that record for a long time to come, when you see cities like LA, Detroit, Houston (it seriously smelt like sewage there), New York and Chicago. We all get most of our pollution from them anyways.

[Dino]

Canada is the worst polluter compared to european countries,australia,japan and the united states.<br /> <br /> Were to get more money for social programs?We receive 60 billion a year from America from our oil. With a right wing liberal government in power it goes to there friends and corporations. If the NDP were in power it would actually benefit the people.<br /> <br /> I believe in socialism there for I believe people should be taxed and government take care of social programs.We need to start having socialist policies in Canada because the best countries in the world (sweden,norway) have socialist policies and take alook at there lives compared to ours here. <br /> <br /> We could learn from Norway they use there oil profits to benefit the people while our government uses it to make there friends richer.<br /> <br /> If the Liberals get back with a majority this country will join missile defence and our money will go to George Bush's pet project.

[fleur-de-lys]

Not even one seat is occupied by a Neo-democrat from Quebec. It's sad because it's a great party and a nice chief but just let me explain you why they unfortunately didn't have success in Quebec.<br /> <br /> The point of view of the party is exactly the same as the BQ, except for the sovereignty of Quebec. They are both for gay marriage, against the anti-missile shield, for Kyoto... The left-wingers in Quebec are in vast majority for the sovereignty because they know that the english-canadians are, in general, much more on the right than the people of Quebec. <br /> <br /> <br /> Jack Layton can hardly speak french, it's very disappointing because he lived many years in Quebec. Even Stephen Harper is much more at ease to speak french.

[Armageddon]

[QUOTE BY= dino] Canada is the worst polluter compared to european countries,australia,japan and the united states.[/quote]<br /> Unless you back that up, I'm going to doubt it. Maybe with Europe and Japan, but the US, no way. From all the graphs I've ever seen, acid rain and other such pollution occurs mainly in northeast USA, with lots coming up to Toronto. When you look at other places in Canada as well, such as Calgary, Edomonton, Vancouver, and practically all of western Canada, or even in the Maritimes, nice fresh air.<br /> <br /> [quote]Were to get more money for social programs?We receive 60 billion a year from America from our oil. With a right wing liberal government in power it goes to there friends and corporations. If the NDP were in power it would actually benefit the people.[/quote]<br /> Can I please see some sources for this? <br /> <br /> [quote]I believe in socialism there for I believe people should be taxed and government take care of social programs.We need to start having socialist policies in Canada because the best countries in the world (sweden,norway) have socialist policies and take alook at there lives compared to ours here.[/quote]<br /> I don't mind socialist policies or even the countries in them, but I think government should only be in the three fields of education, health care, and military. That National Daycare program I think is totally unecessary, and I know the NDP wanted that up and running faster. Other sectors like auto insurance, can be regulated, such as the solution here in Alberta, where if you're not fined or cause an accident every year, you pay less insurance, but if you do such and such, you pay higher (way higher). See, I think government should be making sure companies don't screw people over for just their money, but I don't think governments should necessarily take over their jobs and such. <br /> <br /> [quote]We could learn from Norway they use there oil profits to benefit the people while our government uses it to make there friends richer.[/quote]<br /> What is going to happen though when a majority of their citizens go into retirement? The fewer, younger will have to pay for their social programs, and most programs then become burdens.

[Armageddon]

[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] Not even one seat is occupied by a Neo-democrat from Quebec. It's sad because it's a great party and a nice chief but just let me explain you why they unfortunately didn't have success in Quebec.<br /> <br /> The point of view of the party is exactly the same as the BQ, except for the sovereignty of Quebec. They are both for gay marriage, against the anti-missile shield, for Kyoto... The left-wingers in Quebec are in vast majority for the sovereignty because they know that the english-canadians are, in general, much more on the right than the people of Quebec. <br /> <br /> <br /> Jack Layton can hardly speak french, it's very disappointing because he lived many years in Quebec. Even Stephen Harper is much more at ease to speak french.[/QUOTE]<br /> See, if the NDP can't "connect" with the Bloc, who are only focused on separatism, they can't unite with the NDP as you want them to Dino.

[FootPrints]

So in other words, Martin said no because he couldn't trust Harpers team to back him and the NDP obviously against it. So it had NOTHING to do with how Canadians felt about it. It's all about the Party, when is there going to be a party for the People? <br /> I heard the Conservatives say they will go along with the budget because they know "Canadians" don't want an election. Maybe it's because they KNOW it would end up the same anyway.<br /> It just frustrates me...<br /> My next vote will be NDP all the way.<br />