[The Saint]

[QUOTE BY= peacedove]In 2004-2005, the city put in place a belt in order to contain sprawl.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> There are areas north of Toronto designated as green belts that are under constant attack by housing developers. These houses in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) are increasingly being bought by "new Canadians." Further threatening Ontario's green belts is the fact that 70% of campaign funds to Vaughn city councilors is by land developers (as reported in the Toronto Star last week I believe). Vaughn is located just north of Toronto just across Steeles avenue and home to some of the richest farm land in Canada and soon to be home to parking lots, strip malls, and tract after tract of new housing. The Ontario Environment Commissioner came out against unfettered population growth in and around Toronto as adversely affecting the quality of life for southern Ontarians. He cited high immigration levels to the area as the main source of population growth to southern Ontario region. Therefore high immigration levels are a threat to southern Ontario's farmlands and greenspaces.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= peacedove]Second has to do with immigration. Many people blame immigration for sprawl. Hamilton is doing something different. They are using inner city housing to provide housing for immigrants. There are many vacant homes and apartments in the inner city waiting to be purchased by families. The same is true for my hometown of Winnipeg. Hamilton is the key for smart growth in the future.<br /> <br /> Harjit Gill<br /> Winnipeg<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> And when that inner city housing fills up then what? You are advocating a band-aid solution when the real problem is high immigration levels but your band-aid solutions are usually considered and implemented when the solution is lowering Canada's immigration intake.<br /> <br /> I see what you are doing and you are wrong. Canada accepts too many immigrants and the loss of valuable green spaces is just one of the costs Canadians do not realize they are paying until it will be too late. I say stop it now. It is time, in fact overdue, to decrease Canada's immigrant intake. The numbers should be around 60-80,000 primarily made up of skilled immigrants with severe restrictions on family reunification.<br /> <br /> Canada's natural beauty is what many Canadians identify with and what the world thinks of when they think of Canada and we should not sacrifice it just so that superfluous immigration lawyers can have careers let alone to satisfy the materialist dreams of the third world’s elite.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= The Saint] [QUOTE BY= peacedove]In 2004-2005, the city put in place a belt in order to contain sprawl.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> There are areas north of Toronto designated as green belts that are under constant attack by housing developers. These houses in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) are increasingly being bought by "new Canadians." Further threatening Ontario's green belts is the fact that 70% of campaign funds to Vaughn city councilors is by land developers (as reported in the Toronto Star last week I believe). Vaughn is located just north of Toronto just across Steeles avenue and home to some of the richest farm land in Canada and soon to be home to parking lots, strip malls, and tract after tract of new housing. The Ontario Environment Commissioner came out against unfettered population growth in and around Toronto as adversely affecting the quality of life for southern Ontarians. He cited high immigration levels to the area as the main source of population growth to southern Ontario region. Therefore high immigration levels are a threat to southern Ontario's farmlands and greenspaces.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= peacedove]Second has to do with immigration. Many people blame immigration for sprawl. Hamilton is doing something different. They are using inner city housing to provide housing for immigrants. There are many vacant homes and apartments in the inner city waiting to be purchased by families. The same is true for my hometown of Winnipeg. Hamilton is the key for smart growth in the future.<br /> <br /> Harjit Gill<br /> Winnipeg<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> And when that inner city housing fills up then what? You are advocating a band-aid solution when the real problem is high immigration levels but your band-aid solutions are usually considered and implemented when the solution is lowering Canada's immigration intake.<br /> <br /> I see what you are doing and you are wrong. Canada accepts too many immigrants and the loss of valuable green spaces is just one of the costs Canadians do not realize they are paying until it will be too late. I say stop it now. It is time, in fact overdue, to decrease Canada's immigrant intake. The numbers should be around 60-80,000 primarily made up of skilled immigrants with severe restrictions on family reunification.<br /> <br /> Canada's natural beauty is what many Canadians identify with and what the world thinks of when they think of Canada and we should not sacrifice it just so that superfluous immigration lawyers can have careers let alone to satisfy the materialist dreams of the third world’s elite.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> Agreed on all counts but I would even say NO more immigrants for several years at least. Also, if we could make it more desirable and affordable for Canadians to have kids by promoting the family, why accept any immigrants at all? Canadians have said in polls that they often disagree with immigration in principle.<br /> <br /> I agree skilled professionals should be the people we look for IF we need them, but they shouldn't leap frog to the top of society due to equality programs. We should also take some unskilled workers if we need them for a huge construction project like another Trans-Canada highway, but only if we can't find them here first.

[The Saint]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] Agreed on all counts but I would even say NO more immigrants for several years at least. Also, if we could make it more desirable and affordable for Canadians to have kids by promoting the family, why accept any immigrants at all? Canadians have said in polls that they often disagree with immigration in principle.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Canada has traditionally relied on natural growth as a source of population replacement and population growth and less so on immigration. The fact that Canada has turned to importing people to handle this is a disgrace to this nation but even so the arguement that Canada needs mass immigration because it has an aging population does not hold much water. StatsCan has shown that immigrant woman have the same number of births as Canadian women. Ontario, destiniation for many immigrants, has a birth rate of 1.47 and this is lower than the national average of 1.5. This shows that Canada's low birth rate is a socio-economic one that immigration cannot solve unless the socio-economic issue is addressed first. And if it is addressed and the results are positive then mass immigration would not be necessary anyway.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Perturbed]I agree skilled professionals should be the people we look for IF we need them, but they shouldn't leap frog to the top of society due to equality programs. We should also take some unskilled workers if we need them for a huge construction project like another Trans-Canada highway, but only if we can't find them here first.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I agree. Most immigrants who come here do not have a job waiting for them and while here soon realize that there is no job for them at all. They were bamboozled by immigration lawyers and consultants and dishonest politicians. That's why many of them are driving taxi cabs or delivering pizza and not because their skills are not recognized. In the meantime they import family members, many of working age who do not need language skills or job skills to get in via the family class, as they work, wait, and hope for the "better life" that often never comes. The sad thing is that many of them lived the "better life" back in their respective countries, upper caste Hindus for example; only to come here and live in poverty but frankly I think sometimes they deserve it. For the sake of their dignity and careers it is compassionate to tell them to stay home and do not come to Canada. And those who are here I say go back while you still have a chance to salvage the good life you lived "back home." Funny thing is I am considered the racist xenophobe for saying this. I guess some people think it’s more compassionate to pillage the developing world of its desperately needed skilled labour and subject them to poverty here.<br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= The Saint] [QUOTE BY= Perturbed] Agreed on all counts but I would even say NO more immigrants for several years at least. Also, if we could make it more desirable and affordable for Canadians to have kids by promoting the family, why accept any immigrants at all? Canadians have said in polls that they often disagree with immigration in principle.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Canada has traditionally relied on natural growth as a source of population replacement and population growth and less so on immigration. The fact that Canada has turned to importing people to handle this is a disgrace to this nation but even so the arguement that Canada needs mass immigration because it has an aging population does not hold much water. StatsCan has shown that immigrant woman have the same number of births as Canadian women. Ontario, destiniation for many immigrants, has a birth rate of 1.47 and this is lower than the national average of 1.5. This shows that Canada's low birth rate is a socio-economic one that immigration cannot solve unless the socio-economic issue is addressed first. And if it is addressed and the results are positive then mass immigration would not be necessary anyway.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Perturbed]I agree skilled professionals should be the people we look for IF we need them, but they shouldn't leap frog to the top of society due to equality programs. We should also take some unskilled workers if we need them for a huge construction project like another Trans-Canada highway, but only if we can't find them here first.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I agree. Most immigrants who come here do not have a job waiting for them and while here soon realize that there is no job for them at all. They were bamboozled by immigration lawyers and consultants and dishonest politicians. That's why many of them are driving taxi cabs or delivering pizza and not because their skills are not recognized. In the meantime they import family members, many of working age who do not need language skills or job skills to get in via the family class, as they work, wait, and hope for the "better life" that often never comes. The sad thing is that many of them lived the "better life" back in their respective countries, upper caste Hindus for example; only to come here and live in poverty but frankly I think sometimes they deserve it. For the sake of their dignity and careers it is compassionate to tell them to stay home and do not come to Canada. And those who are here I say go back while you still have a chance to salvage the good life you lived "back home." Funny thing is I am considered the racist xenophobe for saying this. I guess some people think it’s more compassionate to pillage the developing world of its desperately needed skilled labour and subject them to poverty here.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> I agree with what you write. That said, I think socio-economic reasons are only one group of reasons that people don't have kids. Our jobs have been outsourced and workers have been in-sourced but there are still well over of dozen reasons--probably hundreds.<br /> <br /> The degeneracy of the Post W.W. II generation and the social revolution--some imposed from elite-controlled politicians. Birth control, abortion rights, gay rights, feminism, equality, + the fact that birth rates had been falling even longer due to prosperity and urbanization among other reasons.<br /> <br /> There are also people who could afford kids but prefer the pleasure-principle and a second car and vacation to having a bigger family. <br /> <br /> There are even people who believe in the "one-world" nonsense and think we "owe it to the world" to not make too many of ourselves. Nasty colonialism and nationalism. Can'r have that. We also must save the environment so the trees have it good after we're all gone. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'>