[4Canada]

"I believe that they “allow” ownership of these operations in rural Canada only so that they may be classed as “farming” with the corresponding relaxed taxation and environmental controls."<br /> <br /> I agree with you on this Rural. I ran into a very unpleasant situation in my rural area a few years ago. Steep, crown land above my home was about to be logged and because there were about 8 homes in danger of future rock/landslides and our water supply possibly drying up we protested furiously. When we did a title search to see who had bought the crown land we found that Slocan Forest Products had mortgaged it for a local logger and voila! You need work, we need logs lets make a deal! I was horrified to find that this is very normal practice. The most horrifying thing about these kinds of transactions is that the forest is never replanted. In my opinion, every tree taken from private land and sold to a Forest Producer is one less tree that can be taken from our crown lands. Slocan has since left the area but is still having our local wood hawled to their mills miles away from where the locals have lost their livihood. <br /> <br /> These are two separate issues I know but the "practices" sound very similar to me. Large corporations using the locals for their own benefit. There was nothing we did that could stop it. <br /> <br /> Revolution against corporate control is the only answer. They have our politicians by the curlies so they are not going to do what's right for Canada while they stand there mouthing "I can't do anything to help you, can't you see I have to help myself first?"<br /> <br /> I do not agree with industrial sized farming of anything be it animal or vegetable. The land is the loser every time. Food production must be done in a way that is not corporate friendly. The minute the bottom line becomes a factor the production declines and the altruistic farmer becomes a fatality.

[Brother Jonathan]

<b>Rural</b>: Here in Vermont a few coöperatives have done reasonably well; the <a href="http://www.stalbanscooperative.com/">St. Albans Coöperative Creamery</a> has provided milk and cream to Ben and Jerry's for many years, and the <a href="http://www.cabotcheese.com/">Cabot Creamery Coöperative</a> is well known here for its cheeses. (However, Cabot is part of Agri-Mark, a larger New England coöp, and Ben and Jerry's is now owned by Unilever, an Anglo-Dutch multinational corporation.)<br /> <br /> <b>4Canada</b>: What sort of revolution against corporate control do you have in mind?<br />

[4Canada]

Brother Johnathan,<br /> <br /> Good question. Mass action seems to be something most people on this site do not get involved in. One Dave Ruston keeps asking for a country-wide strike and you know that is something that would work if people would participate. Just shut business down for as long as it takes for us to demand govenment change the laws that have given corporations the same legal rights as the public. Infact, work stopage and sitins may be our only weapons against corporations that we have.

[whelan costen]

Rural great first post, but your link doesn't work and I would like to read more; I agree with your take and if ILO's and CFO's were coded as industry as they should be, they could be regulated, with proper protection for workers, land, air and water! They are treated as farm and even many farmers see them as such, they are definitely not, I live downhill and downwind from a beef feedlot and believe me, it is industry. I have read recently that the gasses created, which when mixed with water, such as a light rain, dew in the morning etc. turn into a more potent gas, sorry can't remember the numbers, but it is as toxic or worse than Sour gas....but nobody is concerned...well I am and the few who know are,but certainly not our regulating bodies.<br /> <br /> 4Canada you are right, but before we can take any action the masses have to get educated...otherwise you'll have a few taking action and the rest saying, 'what are they bitching about?' <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/frown.gif' alt='Frown'>

[Rural]

Sorry about the link, still finding my way around and must have done somthing wrong. Just put- "factory farm" canada -into google for 1000s of sites the first few will be all you need, if you leave off the canada you will see that the problem south of the border is just as bad or worse. The particular quotes were from<br /> http://www.environmentaldefence.ca/protecting/factoryfarms.htm<br /> Today some farmers HAVE taken mass action (a small mass maybee) and in driving their tractors into Queens Park will no doubt piss a lot of Toronto commuters off, I dont know if this is the way to go but Im sure it will at least get some attention. Somehow we must vote with our pocketbook and see that the true farmer get more for his product at the farm gate whilst at the same time reducing the proffits of the big guys. Have no idea how to do this!<br />

[Marcarc]

This was good information but I'd have to disagree with the mode of action. Of course, I always take part in strikes, whether I think them useful or not, however, from an ideological standpoint this action has many problems.<br /> <br /> 1. There seem to be three 'problems' that are seeking redress. Logging, water supply, selling of crown land, corporate 'ownership' (though more like leasing in this case).<br /> 2. Striking will not affect the change you are looking for simply because owners are not going to participate because it is their control being threatened, which means it would be 'difficult' for workers to strike because they will have no protection.<br /> 3. A cross country strike is a logistical nightmare, even a local organization is not easy.<br /> 4. If you don't have numbers, then it is hard to get media coverage to let anybody know about what you are doing.<br /> 5. If you can't decide on a single issue then I can almost guarantee no media coverage.<br /> <br /> The 'agenda' seemed to be against corporatization in general, so as I've said before, it's not efficient to re-invent the wheel as there are dozens of organizations already fighting those battles. I've got a link in here somewhere that lists many of them but they're easy to find.<br /> <br /> This website won't help in most of these matters unless you post and find people who will take action to help (I'm not convinced of that). However, these arguments seem to attest to the need for 'systemic' change, so, again, I encourage you to check out the thread and the links for direct democracy. The days when people thought environmentalists were the 'special interest' groups are long over. Though it's anecdotal, the only people that would support such a logging operation would be the few people who would get work from it, hardly the majority.<br /> <br /> I would suggest anybody looking or living with rural or semi-rural properties be proactive. If there is a large chunk of land owned by government or industry or a single owner then start an organization, raise funding, BUY the place! Otherwise, quite frankly, you're screwed. Go to the library and watch "Ah..the money, the money, the money", it's an excellent documentary on Salt Springs in British Columbia. Here there was virtually nothing the people could do except break the law to stop the logging. <br /> <br /> If there are any success stories out there I'd love to hear them, because from media you certainly get the idea that you can't fight corporate hall, which is no doubt the point. There are successful proactive stories though, and perhaps we should have links. If people though are looking for action, I suggest either joining, or starting a local organization, it will surprise you how many exist in your area.<br /> <br /> One final pitch for direct democracy-all those decisions that have been mentioned have been POLITICAL decisions, which means somebody is accountable. If you really want to scare the bejesus out of corporate canada and the politicians they own then run as an independant with direct democracy as a platform. Trudeau once mentioned that being next to the US was like sleeping next to an elephant, however, that's been a nap the country was always willing to take, no matter how dangerous. The one place they absolutely fear-is next to the people-what kind of animal does that make us<img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'>

[Brother Jonathan]

<b>4Canada</b>: Everyone has at least one weapon against corporations - boycotting. Like Rural said, vote with your pocketbook. Our money to corporations is like blood to vampires; they can't survive long without regular infusions.<br /> <br /> <b>whelan costen</b>: My sympathies for your proximity to the feedlot. From your description, I'd guess that the cattle are grain-fed rather than grass-fed?<br /> <br /> <b>Rural</b>: For the folks in urban and suburban areas, take your custom to farmers' markets when in season, and seek out coöperative markets the rest of the time. One reduces the big guys' profits by not buying the big guys' products.<br /> <br /> <b>Marcarc</b>: The people aren't an animal - the people are a volcano. Whether that volcano is dormant or active, only time will tell.

[4Canada]

Hi all.<br /> <br /> Just wanted to give a heads up to anyone interested. Vision Network is having two one hour documentaries coming up in the next couple of weeks that suit our concerns here. One is on March 16 at 10pm EST and is titled "Deconstructing Supper". It has been around for awhile now but if you haven't seen it it is really worthwhile. I would have loved to have travelled around the world with this chef on his discoveries into GMO and seed preservation.<br /> <br /> The other is on March 23 at 10pm EST and is titled: "A Passionate Voice for the Farmer: The story of Nettie Wiebe. This is a premier preformance. Links to Vision. http://www.visiontv.ca/Programs/documen ... ocial.html<br /> <br /> Hopefully that works?