[Marcarc]

Most polls show Canadians rather like the 'socialist bs', which is what is rapidly being run from in Canada. That poverty is linked to violence is hardly a radical idea, in fact its pretty well established. If you've ever been to Scarborough then you know that full well. It was canadians who spent the early part of last century bringing those socialist reforms that changed Canada from a country of robber barons to one where canadians actually received some benefit. We are now quickly on the way back to the age of robber barons.<br /> <br /> Take a look at any well to do neighbourhood, the crime rates are typically extremely low. So it isn't surprising when 'society' gives you no benefit, you feel no loyalty to it. Why would you? Why should poor kids in Toronto give a rat's ass about what white middle class sofa jockeys say? <br /> <br /> There were numerous studies done which showed the crime rate increased when Toronto banned squeegee kids from making a living, in such a society violence should very well be EXPECTED. <br /> <br /> So just go back and read some papers from the late seventies when unions flourished, jobs weren't scarce and paid well, there was a more equal sharing of wealth, and homelessness, poverty and crime were hardly ever heard of.

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] ...That poverty is linked to violence is hardly a radical idea, in fact its pretty well established. If you've ever been to Scarborough then you know that full well. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Not that I'm 'representing' the masses, but I grew up in one of those 'hell's kitchen' neighbourhoods and I am now living in relative comfort/security *away* from that crap.<br /> <br /> What did I do? Did I take up being a gangster? A drug dealer? A pimp? Car thief?<br /> <br /> Nope.<br /> <br /> My life was pretty boring, I saved my money, WENT TO SCHOOL and GOT A JOB.<br /> <br /> Anybody regardless of race/gender/ethnicity/social background can get a job in this country. People who choose to be complete losers did so OUT OF THEIR OWN CHOICE.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Why should poor kids in Toronto give a rat's ass about what white middle class sofa jockeys say? [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Are you then trying to excuse what happened on Dec 26th? That the killers of that girl were also 'victims' in their own right?<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] There were numerous studies done which showed the crime rate increased when Toronto banned squeegee kids from making a living, in such a society violence should very well be EXPECTED. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> ???<br /> <br /> What's YOUR POINT??? (And I like how you *never* cite your sources...you just pull this out of your ass).<br /> <br /> Are you saying that because Toronto got rid of Squeegee kids that Toronto is now to BLAME for the rising violence?<br /> <br /> Why not go to rape victim shelters and tell these women, that maybe if they weren't 'stuck up bitches' that the might not of gotten raped?<br /> <br /> You've got some issues to deal with buddy, and I don't in particular like how you flippantly BLAME THE VICTIMS for the CRIME.<br /> <br /> Squeegee kids going to crime did so because they are LAZY and they CHOSE to do so. I have no sympathy for those jackasses, they CHOSE to live that life.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] So just go back and read some papers from the late seventies when unions flourished, jobs weren't scarce and paid well, there was a more equal sharing of wealth, and homelessness, poverty and crime were hardly ever heard of. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> The 70's? That basically was the beginning of the END for unions as we knew it. When Reagan fired all those air traffic controllers...Regan basically said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Unions simply can't jeapordize the public safety over their own grievances with their bosses.<br /> <br /> The transit strike that happened in New York was:<br /> <br /> 1) ILLEGAL (BIG difference between an illegal and legal strike).<br /> <br /> 2) Brutally hurt the city and did nothing to gain sympathy for the Transit workers. All what it did was make the city consider 'other options'<br /> <br /> 3) Was a good warning to all the other cities that they'd better start looking for other options rather than relying on the Unions to help run a city.<br /> <br /> When a service as critical to an economy as the Transit system is unavailable...then it's time to reconsider Unions and what good they are for. <br /> <br /> People seriously don't give a crap over the 'grievances' Unions have, they only want those buses to work, and when these buses are not running, and the Mayor has made it clear that the Union is striking ILLEGALLY.<br /> <br /> Looks like public opinion will take a hard-shift to the right in this case.<br /> <br />

[badsector]

Being poor is a lousy excuse for committing a crime. Most poor people don't commit crimes. They get on the bus and go to work every day and even raise their kids up to be honest hard working adults. Poverty excuse defeated, moving on...

[Marcarc]

The main reason of looking at any crime is to see why it happened to prevent it from happening again. We still don't know the specifics so this is all conjecture. If you WANT, you can say 'these people are godless scum and should be thrown in jail', however, that doesn't STOP it. Crime, any kind of crime, and in particular this kind of crime happens for a reason. And there's a reason why all the faces in the paper who were killed during the last year weren't white. If it WASN"T race related, then there'd be a mix. If you don't admit that, you are basically saying that black people are more genetically prone to violence than white people. And that's hardly the case.<br /> <br /> Canada is notoriously racist, just ask anybody not white. Of course white people always say they are not racist, just reading most of these posts shows how untrue that is. <br /> <br /> Gang violence is extremely complex, the question is how to deal with it. It isn't surprising that it's happening now when all the supports for low income earners have been cut. As mentioned in the paper, this was all predicted over a decade ago. If you don't think this is the case then why wouldn't the violence be in wealthy neighbourhoods? You're actually saying that growing up in poverty has absolutely no relation to gang membership? Or crime? As for the studies, just type in 'squeegee kids', 'toronto' and 'study' and you'll find the studies referred to. <br /> <br /> Who says that 'all poor people commit crimes'? Nobody. That doesn't mean they are unrelated. Most crimes are simply designed to affect the poor, just look at vagrancy, loitering and panhandling laws. Notice how nobody claims that it's freedom of speech to walk up to a guy and ask for spare change? Particularly when you have an entirely poor neighbourhood. Nobody is saying that people don't make choices, the point is, how do you make it so that violence isn't a choice? Well, coincidentally we can go back and look at the situation in the early nineties when poverty wasn't nearly so devastating as now. Guns were around, but the violence wasn't. <br /> <br /> Right now you can look at a violent area and say 'well, let's just round them all up and put them all in jail'. Or you can look at the rampant poverty and hopelessness of the area and change that. One has been proven to work, the other one works, but is the mark of every genocidal violent dictatorship we've seen. <br /> <br /> You'll notice how Harper doesn't even mention guns, because he knows if you crack down on guns you lose your conservative base. Martins idea of magically finding all the handguns around is just delusional. It's like hearing them talk about getting rid of pot. However, the one thing you can do, which SHOULD have been done long ago is to look at the causes of gang membership, the first of which is poverty, the second is race relations. Most people, including us, shouldn't even be talking solutinons, because how many of us have even BEEN to this part of Toronto or know anybody in it?

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Canada is notoriously racist, just ask anybody not white. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Alright, I'm not white/caucasian. So I'll ask myself.<br /> <br /> Hey Rabblewatch, is Canada "Notoriously Racist"? <br /> <br /> My Answer: No.<br /> <br /> How's that for size?<br /> <br /> Growing up, I experienced my share of 'racism', and guess what: I DIDN'T CARE!!!!!! <br /> <br /> I just finished school, went to College, graduated and then GOT A JOB. Soon I began working with people who simply want to work with me, and the whole idea of 'race' was a complete and utter farce. I've worked with all types, and we never bothered bringing the idea of race into the workplace or social setting.<br /> <br /> And even if someone was 'racist'? GOOD FOR THEM! I AM HAPPY FOR THEM!<br /> <br /> By all means, if someone hates black or whites: BRAVO! They want to join the Neo-Nazi Skinheads and march in the streets for 'White-Power'? GREAT! The KKK wants to sell me a box of 'white crackers' snacks? <br /> <br /> I'LL BUY TWO OF THEM!<br /> <br /> I seriously DON'T CARE, because THAT IS THEIR OPINION. Same for someone's politics, whether they vote Liberal or Conservative: GOOD FOR THEM. All what I am happy about is that they are participating in the Democratic process.<br /> <br /> The sooner someone drops the whole ridiculous concept of 'fighting racism' especially in a NATION AS WEALTHY AND PROSPEROUS AS CANADA, the sooner idiots will have a harder time using 'race' as a bully pulpit.<br /> <br /> TORONTO'S GUN VIOLENCE HAS ***NOTHING*** TO DO WITH RACE, IT'S ALL ABOUT LAZY SCUMBAGS RESORTING TO VIOLENCE. COPS SHOULD STOMP THEIR GUTS OUT AND JUDGES SHOULD LOCK 'EM UP FOR LIFE!<br /> <br /> CASE CLOSED!

[Jesse]

[QUOTE BY= Rabblewatch]<br /> TORONTO'S GUN VIOLENCE HAS ***NOTHING*** TO DO WITH RACE, IT'S ALL ABOUT LAZY SCUMBAGS RESORTING TO VIOLENCE. COPS SHOULD STOMP THEIR GUTS OUT AND JUDGES SHOULD LOCK 'EM UP FOR LIFE!<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Rabblewatch, you are dangerously close to hate speech by saying that some group should have their guts stomped. I appreciate that you are excited, but tone it down. Thanks.

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= jesse] [QUOTE BY= Rabblewatch]<br /> TORONTO'S GUN VIOLENCE HAS ***NOTHING*** TO DO WITH RACE, IT'S ALL ABOUT LAZY SCUMBAGS RESORTING TO VIOLENCE. COPS SHOULD STOMP THEIR GUTS OUT AND JUDGES SHOULD LOCK 'EM UP FOR LIFE!<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Rabblewatch, you are dangerously close to hate speech by saying that some group should have their guts stomped. I appreciate that you are excited, but tone it down. Thanks.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Please prove to me that this is 'hate speech'. What race in particular am I 'hate'ing?<br /> <br /> Like it how you're trying to make this into a race issues, when I've emphatically stated that playing the Race Card is the scumbag's last refuge in this country.<br /> <br /> Thanks.<br /> <br /> *asshole*<br /> <br />

[Marcarc]

In case you haven't seen it, virtually ALL the faces of murder victims in Toronto are BLACK. Which is a race. Almost all those charged with the crimes have been black, therefore if you are talking about these specific criminals, you are talking about a race. Proportionally speaking, if it had nothing to do with race, then NONE of the people involved would be black, they would be almost all white with a couple of asian canadians and african canadians. When they are ALL of a small minority in a small geographical area, then clearly its about race.<br /> <br /> However, I'd submit to the moderator that even if not directed at a race the above comment was still a threat of violence, albeit extorting another group to do their violence for them, which definitely has no place in a debate. Such people can rant and rave about their constitutional rights to spout violence all they want-all while the moderator deletes them-an unfortunate but necessary consequence of being a 'moderator'. No other forum would allow violence to be advocated, and it shouldn't be allowed here. The result is that more civilized people get disgusted and leave, and the entire forum becomes nothing but extremists spouting violence.

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] In case you haven't seen it, virtually ALL the faces of murder victims in Toronto are BLACK. Which is a race. Almost all those charged with the crimes have been black, therefore if you are talking about these specific criminals, you are talking about a race. Proportionally speaking, if it had nothing to do with race, then NONE of the people involved would be black, they would be almost all white with a couple of asian canadians and african canadians. When they are ALL of a small minority in a small geographical area, then clearly its about race.<br /> <br /> However, I'd submit to the moderator that even if not directed at a race the above comment was still a threat of violence, albeit extorting another group to do their violence for them, which definitely has no place in a debate. Such people can rant and rave about their constitutional rights to spout violence all they want-all while the moderator deletes them-an unfortunate but necessary consequence of being a 'moderator'. No other forum would allow violence to be advocated, and it shouldn't be allowed here. The result is that more civilized people get disgusted and leave, and the entire forum becomes nothing but extremists spouting violence.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Two things<br /> <br /> 1) Call it what you want, but I never said "Our cops should get them darkies"<br /> <br /> 2) I'm all for the police taking whatver actions necessary to do their jobs. I'm not advocating vigilatism.<br /> <br /> Basically, you're just a libelous asshole.<br /> <br /> But that's okay, because as if this website has any merit except to push Oppressive Socialism?<br /> <br />

[Brent Swain]

There is a country right next door to us called THE US where they do things your way. They have the highest percentage of their population of any country in the world in prison.The total lack of crime there proves your theory? In Canada we put the welfare of the community as a whole ahead of that of individuals. In your beloved US 40% of the population will spend part of their life in prison, and have a criminal record.So what are you doing in this country. Why don't you emmigrate to the US and enjoy the safe, crime free country that has resulted , according to your theories.<br /> By the way, they have a shortage of cannon fodder for their attempts to force others to do things their way in Iraq. If you believe so strongly in their way of doing things , why don't you sign up as a mercenary there ,of which they hire many.<br /> What happened to Milguard, Marshall, Neepouse, Morin, Sofano and many others can happen to any one of us or our families.Relying too much on the professional liars of the legal industry to solve social problems is a threat to all of us.<br /> Brent Swain

[Guest]

<br /> Gotta love it, playing the whole 'Canada should be more like Europe than U.S.' routine.<br /> <br /> Alright, so if that's what you really want, then why not also have the DOUBLE-DIGIT unemployment that Europe has?<br /> <br /> Canada *thanks to the U.S.* has been having 6 percent unemployment for awhile now.<br /> <br /> That's because when the U.S. says 'Jump' Canada says 'how high'<br /> <br /> Case closed.<br /> <br /> I love Canada, however I'm not gonna bend over and allow socialism to wreck/destroy this nation. <br /> <br /> Tell me if you disagree with this: The best cure for anyone's problems is a JOB. The better the job, the less B.S. they have to take from anyone.<br /> <br /> That's what people should be aspiring for: WORK HARD AND GET A GOOD JOB.<br /> <br /> Government WELFARE HANDOUTS, ain't gonna cut it.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Brent Swain] There is a country right next door to us called THE US where they do things your way. They have the highest percentage of their population of any country in the world in prison.The total lack of crime there proves your theory? In Canada we put the welfare of the community as a whole ahead of that of individuals. In your beloved US 40% of the population will spend part of their life in prison, and have a criminal record.So what are you doing in this country. Why don't you emmigrate to the US and enjoy the safe, crime free country that has resulted , according to your theories.<br /> By the way, they have a shortage of cannon fodder for their attempts to force others to do things their way in Iraq. If you believe so strongly in their way of doing things , why don't you sign up as a mercenary there ,of which they hire many.<br /> What happened to Milguard, Marshall, Neepouse, Morin, Sofano and many others can happen to any one of us or our families.Relying too much on the professional liars of the legal industry to solve social problems is a threat to all of us.<br /> Brent Swain[/QUOTE]

[Marcarc]

Actually, the reason that Canada's unemployment rate has fallen is because hardly anybody qualifies for unemployment anymore. In order to be quantified as 'unemployed' a person has to be collecting unemployment AND actively looking for work, meaning that if you are taking training you also don't count. All you have to do is go to statistics canada and read the census figures on the 'participation rate' to tell you how many people are actively involved in the economy and subtract the population over 65 (assuming they are retired).<br /> <br /> I quite agree about the jobs issue, couldn't agree more. Here's a thought, how about stop underwriting technology in resource industry so that these companies actually hire more people instead of replacing them with machines. <br /> <br /> How about tying corporate and business taxes into how many people a company actually employs. <br /> <br /> However, the post above is wrong about Europe, after all, Ireland has a lower unemployment rate than most US states, and the scandinavian countries, which are far more 'socialist' than we are essentially have zero unemployment. They're entire economy is geared toward creating jobs.<br /> <br /> However, in the states there are jobs, just not good ones. Most jobs pay only enough to barely scrape by with no benefits, no security, and no opportunity. Compared with Scandinavia there are obviously two very different choices.

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Actually, the reason that Canada's unemployment rate has fallen is because hardly anybody qualifies for unemployment anymore. In order to be quantified as 'unemployed' a person has to be collecting unemployment AND actively looking for work, meaning that if you are taking training you also don't count. All you have to do is go to statistics canada and read the census figures on the 'participation rate' to tell you how many people are actively involved in the economy and subtract the population over 65 (assuming they are retired).[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Blah, blah, blah.<br /> <br /> Canada and America is single digit, Europe (overall) is double-digit.<br /> <br /> Case closed.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] I quite agree about the jobs issue, couldn't agree more. Here's a thought, how about stop underwriting technology in resource industry so that these companies actually hire more people instead of replacing them with machines. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Nope.<br /> <br /> If a machine can replace five people, and save a ton of cash for the company: DO IT.<br /> <br /> The days of having someone push a button for 30+ years are OVER. <br /> <br /> If you don't constantly learn/stay up to date and hyper-specialize in your field: YOU'RE TOAST.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc]How about tying corporate and business taxes into how many people a company actually employs. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> You can try, but the way Capitalism works is always that of the bottom line. Any varsity level accountant can always find ways of exploiting any new type of 'tax-for work' legislation. You can make the most pro-jobs type of tax-incentives, and corporations will only find ways to exploit it.<br /> <br /> The key here, is to simply have the government get off the backs of corporations and allow REAL COMPETITION to FORCE corporations to do their best...because if they don't, they're toast.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] However, the post above is wrong about Europe, after all, Ireland has a lower unemployment rate than most US states, and the scandinavian countries, which are far more 'socialist' than we are essentially have zero unemployment. They're entire economy is geared toward creating jobs.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Call it for whatever you want, proportionally, the overall unemployment rate is double-digit in Europe. While North America and Asia is gearing up for the 21st century...Europe in the meantime is slowly but surely drowning in it's own socialist policies.<br /> <br /> Face it, Socialism by default is not designed for aggressive capitalism. How can Europe possibly compete against Asia? They can't.<br /> <br /> All what Europe is going to do, is enact protectionist policies which history has proven that THIS ONLY KILLS EVERYTHING.<br /> <br /> Want to wreck/ruin something? Enable protectionism. <br /> <br /> The only way Europe can survive, is they desperately need a strong dose of Capitalism.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] However, in the states there are jobs, just not good ones. Most jobs pay only enough to barely scrape by with no benefits, no security, and no opportunity. Compared with Scandinavia there are obviously two very different choices.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Hm, maybe you should tell the countless ILLEGAL MEXICAN ALIENS that in droves try and sneak their way to the U.S.<br /> <br /> Why not tell them to sneak into Scandinavia?<br /> <br />

[Marcarc]

Uh, how about because you have to CROSS AN OCEAN to get there. That's your personal opinion, there are no figures to back it up, and making base claims like comparing Europe to America really accomplishes nothing. <br /> <br /> If Ireland has full employment, what use is there in saying 'overall Europe'. That's meaningless. As for the capitalist stuff, well, NO country has ever had capitalism, go read the source-The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith. Of course we know your wrong because there are thousands of medium sized businesses across the continent that function specifically to maximize employment, not technology. The fact that even ONE exists disproves your point that they are 'toast'. <br /> <br /> It's utter nonsense to say that protections don't help an economy, lumber companies in the states did VERY WELL by the duties on canadian lumber.<br /> <br /> However, in New Brunswick the ONLY sector of the industry which still 'muddles by' same as always is the private woodlot owners. In fact, they are continuing to employ far more people than in the past, while two large companies have just sold their mills and headed for the hills. The government just announced yet another multi hundred million 'gift' to the industry, which will do like always and line Irving's pockets. THat's HARDLY capitalism. The most capitalist bunch there are the private woodlot owners, and they receive nothing but headaches from the government while the 'big 5' resource companies get multiple benefits.<br /> <br /> In Canada it is pointless to argue about employment across a national level, certainly crazy to make economic judgements based on it. In southern ontario jobs are 'relatively' easy to come by, but just try in Gander Newfoundland, or Margaree Valley, Cape Breton. Even comparing northern and southern Ontario makes no sense, the employment figures are radically different. The same is true in the states where figures differ tremendously throughout a state. In North Carolina the east is growing like crazy, the west is dead. In Maine the north is a desert when it comes to industry, its all in the south, and the employment figures show that. Actually, even in a city it is problematic as we've seen-entire neighbourhoods, which would amount to cities anywhere else, have entirely different employment areas than say, Mississauga. Of course Canada has NO employment strategies, as I said, if you check statistics, the actual participation rate in the economy is falling, which is far more reliable than unemployment, a figure which has been bureaucratically controlled for over a decade.<br /> <br /> <br /> In Europe, as I said, Norway has full employment, so its pointless to say 'Europe'. If you want to stretch your argument out, why not simply compare entire hemispheres? I believe Antartica has FULL employment-nobody there is on the dole!<br /> <br /> So defending a vague undefined ideology is really just another way of saying 'this is MY view and this theory backs it up'. That's all rubbish of course, its your view and your entitled to it, but there's no point trying to insult others who actually look at the facts, not theories.

[Brent Swain]

You speak of bending over. You seem to suggest we all bend over foreward for the bully on the block and drop our drawers to improve our economic position. I won't deny your suggestion that prostitution pays. However , unlike you we don't all want to sacrifice our freedom to make our own decisions and become prostitutes .<br /> Ireland's economy is booming because they made a very socialist decision to provide post secondary education free.<br /> Brent