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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:39 pm
 


Kevin, some words of wisdom I received from my oldest brother this week: </p> "The Liberals campaign from the left and govern from the right." </p> It's election season again. They also promised us a nationalized child care service back when they were first elected... in 92 or whenever it was. Remember that little red book full of great sounding promises? Remember how it disappeared shortly after the campaign? </p> Besides, the party is run by the ruling elite. Sure, some MP or MLA might think that public healthcare is great. And sure, they might actually make promises about it. But that doesn't mean they'll do it. Just look at Gordon Campbell (and yes I do realize he doesn't necessarily represent other Liberal governments, but Paul Martin DID call him a "breath of fresh air" or some such nonsense) and how he acted with regards to BC Rail, the closing of hospitals and schools.



Kory Yamashita

"What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:37 pm
 


Kevin, I wrote to the Alberta Liberal party about the healthcare issue, I told them it was too bad they are Liberals, as the name is going to kill them in Alberta...the response I received was that the provincial Liberals are NOT attached to the feds, it is only the name...not sure how separate they are but they know it is unpopular to go along with Klein and co. as they attempt to dismantle health care as we know it...



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:40 am
 


Ralph Klein is not attempting to kill health care, he's attempting to try new methods to improve it... Shame on him for having ideas, I suppose. In the same way, eveybody thinks that Harper's such an idiot because he suggested that Canada follow the Belgian model... I don't personally support such a step, but at least Harper's mind is active, as is Klein's. But nooo, Ottawa won't let us try anything new... <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> And may I also point out that, according to a very recent survey, Americans are more satisfied than Canadians are with their respective health-care systems. <br /> <br />It's very true that the Liberal name will kill the party altogether in this province... But who cares, I support Klein anyways. His best shot at winning this election is his promise to defend our province's interests in Ottawa, and he has certainly done so thus far.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:15 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= Jared] And may I also point out that, according to a very recent survey, Americans are more satisfied than Canadians are with their respective health-care systems.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Yeah, because we expect working, universal health care. They expect the poor to die of gangrene when they break their ankle stepping off a curb. <br /> <br />



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"What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:38 pm
 


Government shouldn't be doing anything 'new' without a manadate. Most political parties don't campaign on the basis of doing anything 'new'. Of course, some choose to do so after winning however, in doing so they are acting without a real mandate. <br /> <br />Most of Ralph's ideas are like Harper's retreads of concepts that didn't work before to the satisfaction of most, hence Canada's current medical system. Today's conservatives rely on the fact that many voters are ignorant of the past.



"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:12 pm
 


I always felt that Liberals in Alberta can actually be Liberals, because they have Ralphie in government (and good luck getting him out, really), and there isn't a lot of point to present a platform that is being championed by the guy who has been in charge for so long, already. By saying that they disagree with Klein, and would never challenge the Health Act, their only attacking Klein, not offering any concrete idea of what they'll do. They don't have too, really, since they won't win the election. I don't know that their true 'Liberals' (I'm not sure what a true Liberal is, actually, since I'm only twenty-one, and the political genre seems to have died), but their job this election is to see what works with the Albertan people, so that they can work towards the next election, which Klein won't (please, God) be running in. After this next term, the Albertan people will hopefully see reason and come back to earth. <br /> <br />On a side note, didn't Klein say he was going to unveil his challenge to the Canada Health Act just after the federal election? DId he ever?; because now I hear he says it isn't an issue to discuss during an election... what a fraud.



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:52 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= Kory Yamashita] [QUOTE BY= Jared] And may I also point out that, according to a very recent survey, Americans are more satisfied than Canadians are with their respective health-care systems.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Yeah, because we expect working, universal health care. They expect the poor to die of gangrene when they break their ankle stepping off a curb. <br /> <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />In 2001 the UN ranked Canada 30 for Health Care services in the world, and the US 36. Don't get so high and mighty that the present system is the "end all and the be all." <br /> <br />Denamark has an excellent 2 tier and no body seems to want to respond to my posts that it may have some aspects we want to entertain! <br /> <br />Noo....


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:56 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= whelan costen] ...not sure how separate they are but they know it is unpopular to go along with Klein and co. as they attempt to dismantle health care as we know it...[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Klein is very unpopular...only 99% of the legislative seats! Thats' why your a shoe in as MPP in the next election right? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <br /> <br />Maybe the population is looking for solutions to Health Care instead of just pumping more of their money into it? That WOULD be the Conservative way....find a solution....not a band aid!!! <br /> <br />


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:58 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= KevinGagnon] <br />I just heard on CBC radio as I was driving home that the Liberal's are fighting the neo-con's <br /> <br />Kevin[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I've noticed a lot of you neofools use the word neocon. <br /> <br />I am a Conservative, and I've never heard your rhetoric before. What is a neocon? Where did you come up with it? How come it's only used on NDP sites such as vive? <br /> <br />I promise I will tell you what neofool is if you tell me what neocon is!! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'>


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:11 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= civiltech] [QUOTE BY= KevinGagnon] <br />I just heard on CBC radio as I was driving home that the Liberal's are fighting the neo-con's <br /> <br />Kevin[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I've noticed a lot of you neofools use the word neocon. <br /> <br />I am a Conservative, and I've never heard your rhetoric before. What is a neocon? Where did you come up with it? How come it's only used on NDP sites such as vive? <br /> <br />I promise I will tell you what neofool is if you tell me what neocon is!! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> [/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />still waiting! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> <br />


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:30 pm
 


I believe we should not adapt the healthcare systems of the USA or Denmark but of England, France, and Sweden. Have a public-private healthcare system. An idea would be to pay a small fee for diagnostic imaging and scanning to help fund more staff and equipment. Then get the treatment free. Also, pay a small fee for doctor visits to help fund more services/equipment needed at clinics and medical centers.



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:04 am
 


civiltech, the link below discusses the term 'neocon'. <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110002840">What the Heck Is a 'Neocon'?</a> <br /> <br />As indicated by the author, there are a number of differing views as to the term's meaning. <br /> <br />Most posters on Vive use 'neocon' in a pejorative sense to describe a certain type of 'conservatism', described by the conservative author of the article as: <br /> <br />[QUOTE]paleoconservatism, a poisonous brew that was last popular when Father Charles Coughlin, not Rush Limbaugh, was the leading conservative broadcaster in America[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I don't believe most posters intend the term 'neocon' to include conservatism in terms of it's historic Canadian (read pre-Mulroney) meaning. <br /> <br />People sometimes use a term, whether this be neocon, socialist, etc., a bit more loosely than perhaps should be the case without devoting much thought to what's actually being said. <br /> <br />Your first Vive posts were thought provoking. Recently you seem to have fallen into the habit of insulting anyone who isn't completely on board with your thinking, without actually describing the content and basis of that thought. As you seem like a pretty bright person, returning to a more constructive form of dialogue might be more productive for us all. <br /> <br />To improve my own knowledge, I'd be grateful if you could outline the 'real' (as opposed to party webpage) values represented by conservatism in Canada today. How do these compare to the values espoused by the conservatism of Diefenbaker and his predecessors? <br /> <br />Thanks. <br /> <br /> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'>



"When we are in the middle of the paradigm, it is hard to imagine any other paradigm" (Adam Smith).


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:48 am
 


I don't really use the term much myself, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.<BR><BR>The word conservative typically means to keep things the way they are(or were), to be opposed to radical change. The modern archetype for this kind of conservatism is Her Majesty the Queen, although she doesn't often offer her political views. Maybe a better Canadian example is John Hamm...<BR><BR>Anyway, I think a neo-con typically means someone who wants radical change of the right-wing variety. For example, Mike Harris' Red Tape Reduction Act(I think that's what it was called) and the omnibus legislation of 1995 was a radical departure from the previous regulatory environment and, in my opinion, was made into law in haste without understanding its consequences. In effect, Mike Harris made most of his changes in the first two months of his 7 year premiership and Ontario is still feeling the impact of that 1995 legislation. I'm not saying that all those changes were wrong, but, according to Harris' own ministers, they were done with little cabinet discussion and analysis. <BR><BR>In most cases, I think it means aggresively and ideologically reducing the size of government and cutting taxes, caution and consequences be damned! As a self-declared Chrétien-style Liberal and centrist, I am not opposed to tax reductions and cutting government spending per se; lord knows, Chrétien's government cut tens of thousands of jobs and introduced the biggest tax cut in Canadian history. I just think these things should be done if it is the best thing to do for the country at that time, not because it is your ideology. Therefore, I don't think Bush should be cutting taxes when his government has a current account deficit of $500 billion dollars. I'm no economist, but that doesn't seem very responsible to me.<BR><BR>In essence, I think neo-con means to be rigidly, ideologically right-wing with no use for pragmatism. That's just my definition as I've come to understand it over the last few years. I don't know if that helps...


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:27 am
 


I believe the term "neofool" describes you and your posts in this thread civiltech. <p>If you want to yammer about Alberta and how conservatives have solved problems perhaps you would also like to mention that the only governments we have ever had here were Social Credit, and when they were caught with their hands in too many cookie jars they changed their name to Conservative. The debt in Alberta resulted from the conservatives not paying Alberta's bills, instead they amassed a rainy day fund with the money which should have paid the bills. Then they decimated the social safety net, the educational system, the health care system, the provincial and municipal infrastructure systems and privatized all the money making government companies that they could. <p>Now they are promoting P3's even though there is no evidence that they save a penny. I have written to the province asking for cost benefit analysis studies showing that P3's are cost savers, all I get for replies is drivel about how they know they are more cost effective. With royalty payment increases, due to peak oil and a collapsing US dollar, Klein could not avoid paying off the debt and yet his party has no proposals for developing renewable resource infrastructure systems, instead they race to give the money away to their buddies. <p>If the media hadn't been bought and paid for by MNC's years ago, perhaps they would have reported what was going on to the people of Alberta, most of whom derive their opinions from what they hear and read in the local TV, Radio and Newspapers, which are owned and operated on a tight editorial leash by the corporate elite. <br /><p>So you see civiltech, I do understand where you get your opinions from. However, if you are going to continue posting with such a snotty attitude you might consider changing your tag to "sniveltech". <br />


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:53 pm
 


<br />***Post by civiltech deleted*** <br /> <br />Civiltech, no one here has a problem with you presenting your views, or tearing apart the views of others, regardless of what your or their political leanings are. However, for the sake of civilised discussion, we don't tolerate hate-based posts. This includes insults directed at others on the board. <br /> <br />There is a FAQ (http://www.vivelecanada.ca/staticpages/index.php/FAQ) that you can refer to in order to get an idea of what is and is not appropriate on this website. You may find it more beneficial to actually argue without resorting to vast generalisations or name calling. Everyone on this website has a different opinion and we would generally like to think that those opinions are based on some type of worthwhile belief or ideology. That said, your posts of late have been little more than petty insults rather than constructive discussion. <br /> <br />Under "Why is the site moderated?" in the FAQ: <br />[QUOTE] <br />3) To prevent the posting of racist, hate-based, discriminatory, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate content. <br />4) To ensure a high level of quality content. <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />And the following, also from the FAQ: <br />[QUOTE] <br />My comment got deleted. Why? <br />It's very rare for a comment to be deleted. However, we are providing a forum for safe, constructive debate and the exchange of ideas; if your comment got deleted, one of our moderators felt it was unacceptable (see above). Racist remarks will not be tolerated. Keep in mind that a thoughtful and well-written comment is received better than "OMG teh USA suxxx!!!!!1". You might want to post your comments again, but provide links to support your ideas. <br />[/QUOTE]



Kory Yamashita

"What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." - Oliver Wendell Holmes


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