[whelan costen]

First I think that provincial issues, do in the end affect all people in Canada. We see it happening over and over where one province does something, it seemingly works so others follow. I like to hear about concerns in other provinces. <br /> <br />The pan-handler thing is touchy, one, why is there a need for people to beg, that should be addressed before the legislation. IMO I personally don't like to be approached by strangers in this way, I find it intimating as I don't know for sure what they want, and also, it often feels threatening. Squeezie kids, same thing, I think they could set up in certain areas and then if someone wants the service they can drive through. It is dangerous having people jumping out between lights, distracting for drivers and again, having someone approach your vehicle in todays world, could be very scary. <br /> <br />I guess a person who is secure, physically capable etc, wouldn't find these things threatening, but for many women, disabled or elderly, or a person with small children, these situations can be a serious threat. <br /> <br />So I see two problems here, one is why is there a need, which should be addressed first, then impose the penalties if necessary. A beggar sitting on the street waiting for a donation is not the same as someone getting in your face, or following you as you walk harassing you for money. When my kids used to grab my leg and beg in a store, I made them stop, it's annoying and never gained them the goods! They learned there were other ways to get what they wanted. There must also be alternatives for these people, if they don't know what they are, or if there aren't any, then something should be done to solve the problem, not just the symptom. Just my opinion.

[polygong]

Agreed, such legislation is nothing more than trying to sweep the homeless problems under the carpet. <br /> <br />With the homeless, there are so many different stories it is impossible to come up with a sweeping "moral" for it all. We've had a large increase in panhandlers in Toronto over the past 10 years, most of the increase due to cuts to the mental health system by Mike Harris, coupled with the downloading of responsibilites to the cities without giving them access to the extra needed revenue of any kind. <br /> <br />I also agree that there is nothing wrong with discuss regional issues, whelan is right to say that provinces, regions and cities can learn much from one another.

[Milton]

I don't favor laws against begging/ pan-handling, it is a short step from that to laws against complaining. If we don't provide for everyone in our society why would we go to the trouble of making their attempts to acquire ration coupons, ( money), illegal. <br /><p>I can understand Catherine feeling threatened in some situations but that is the price we pay for not paying the beggars not to beg. Some people are not going to work, so what, lets pay them not to work. We give all sorts of handouts to big business for nothing in return, how about some quid pro quo.

[whelan costen]

You know Milton you might be on to something there. There is a certain pride in working which most people learn at a young age, but there are some people who either never learn or really aren't capable due to various reasons; not just because they're lazy. I actually don't believe most people chose to be lazy, they either have a health problem or a social problem, nevertheless they have a problem, and there really should be someway of helping people who just aren't achievers. I am not saying take away the motivation for work, I am saying we should be able to meet the needs of those who simply can't; we should also be looking at the problems causing the begging need. Affordable housing, low minimum wage, alcohol and drug abuse, mental illness not being properly treated etc. <br /> <br />Years ago, many people lived in boarding houses where they had 3 meals a day and a room provided, people who couldn't handle the responsibility of daily chores could live a fairly good life in this setting. Usually there were house rules, bathing rules and times to come and go, and for some people this helped them to live in society and be productive at a job, because they didn't have all the pressures to deal with, perhaps it's time to return to this type of setting. As an option not a mandatory solution. <br /> <br />I have an uncle who has down's syndrome and after he was too old to attend a school setting, he started working at a workshop designed with his abilities in mind, he felt very proud of his job and worked there till about 55 years old. This is just an idea that works. It wasn't always that way, for many years people with this type of handicap were institutionalized and never seen. I am not saying beggars are necessarily handicapped, I do believe that by looking at the cause, or need and helping to fill that void, we would benefit society and the individual.

[Milton]

Yes, deal with the problem, not the symptoms. Sounds like the right way to go. Give people the time and physical necessities so that they can heal themselves to what ever extent possible.

[Guest]

The anti panhandling legislation does exactly what its intended to do. <br />Increase crime statistics, to facilitate the increased funding to police agencies. <br />These people whom have been deprived of social benifits, were expected to steal to eat. <br />Some had the audacity to squigy and pan handle which did not increase crime stats, so they made squigy and panhandling illegal. <br />Now the stats get the bodies that they intended. <br /> <br />Dennis Baker <br />

[Kory Yamashita]

I'm peripherally aware of some of the issues surrounding the 'safe streets act'.<br /> <br /> The first surge in street population occurred when Ralph Klein gave out one-way bus tickets for homeless people to move to Vancouver. Others across Canada acted similarly, as Vancouver has the mildest climate of major Canadian cities. Vancouver is, in a way, bearing the brunt of social security neglect.<br /> <br /> When Larry Campbell (no relation to Gordo) was elected Mayor of Vancouver, he brought forth a plan to address the drug problem in Vancouver. It was called the "Four Pillars Approach," I believe, and it was based on much research and similar plans implemented in Europe. One of the four pillars was police enforcement of drug TRAFFICKING laws (dealers, not users). Another was safe injection sites (I forget the last two). <br /> <br /> The police jumped the gun and cracked down on the Main & Hastings open drug market before the plan was implemented, going after users and dealers alike. This undercut the other three pillars and seriously harmed police credibility in the eyes of drug users.<br /> <br /> Now, the connection between drug users and panhandlers isn't that direct. But a lot of people assume that panhandlers are looking for handouts to buy drugs. Thus, the scattering of the drug trade from a controllable locale throughout the city caused a much increased visibility in the drug trade. And, consequently, much more public animosity towards panhandlers.<br /> <br /> To make matters worse, the Campbell government took a barely functioning mental health system and basically dismantled it. I've heard stats that indicate that about half the homeless population in Vancouver suffers from mental illnesses. <br /> <br /> As for the anti-panhandling act ("safe streets act") itself, the Vancouver Police Department recently announced that it didn't know how to enforce the law. (What are you going to do? Take a homeless guy who sleeps in an alley and give him a cell with a roof and a meal for the night? Issue him a ticket?)<br /> <br /> While the Canwest papers proclaim BC's economic turnaround, Campbell has been deliberately attacking the most vulnerable people in British Columbia. Not to mention that the only increased economic activities I've noticed are the sale of BC Hydro, BC Ferries, BC Rail, and the spread of big box stores. Oh and the public-subsidized Olympics that will primarily benefit the Jim Pattisons. Plus the 'turnaround' in economy can be attributed primarily to increased commodity prices (ie: the oilfields in the North-East of the province) and increased federal transfer payments.<br /> <br /> Campbell is selling this province off to his wealthy friends, piece by piece. And the price we pay? Mentally ill beggars being systematically oppressed for trying to earn a meal the only way they can.

[Guest]

anything to take the media away from the criminal acts of beaurocrates and politicians and corruption of the courts and police.<br /> stick to easy meat!<br /> <br /> Dennis Baker