[michou]

self censored

[Perturbed]

I appreciate the sarcasm, but the facts are on my side. You are clearly not interested in reading what I mentioned earlier, as I never implied any hatred at all. Constructive criticism is not hatred, it's criticism. That being said, I won't let a bunch of friendly, smiling fools tell me that they are going to pull the rug out from under our country, and reject the society that most people in Canada want, as opposed to the fairy tale land separatists live in. Quebec signed up to be part of a country, a country that most Quebeckers want to be a part of. <br /> <br />Separatists could learn a lot from a man who lived a century ago, by the name of Henri Bourassa. A wonderful person, who rightfully acknowledged before we were born, that the biggest threat to Canada was not Great Britain, the world power at the time, but the AMERICANS. Henri Bourassa was, it should be noted, a man who considered himself to be a Canadian nationalist. <br /> <br />As for the myriad arguments that expose separatism for the fraud that it is--I will be happy to do so, but it's getting late to do that today. <br /> <br /> <br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] <br />I have started this "no hard feelings" thread for Perturbed and anyone else who would like to let off steam against separatists. <br /> <br />I for one am extremely curious to hear the basis in fact you will have to provide apart from the classic "I hate you because you want to break up Canada". <br /> <br />We don't want to breakup Canada, we want to build a country. If this is difficult to understand then how did you feel about Canada gaining independence from the United Kingdom?[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />A country can't be built that doesn't exist. Start building Canada, the coutnry you live in and the country you owe your standard of living to, or stop pretending you're a nation-builder. <br /> <br />As for Canada gaining independence from Britain, we did so because a majority of people in Canada (including the people of Quebec wanted this, at least eventually, and Britain had no interest in controlling us anymore. How is this comparable to an attempted separatist land grab? Most Canadians do not want or benefit from a separate Quebec, so it is in no way similar to the British issue. Britain was an over-stretched empire. Canada is a stable country, despite the separatists' best attempt to divide it.

[michou]

self censored

[michou]

self censored

[samuel]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed]I have to call you on your hypocrisy[/QUOTE] <br />You don't know me, I would qualify the above statement as gratuitious hatred. As mentionned earlier though, no hard feelings. <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= Perturbed]Quebec signed up to be part of a country[/QUOTE] <br />Are you saying Canada has never opted out of or modified anything it signed? Are we stuck with NAFTA the way it's drafted until your descendents are extinct? <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= Perturbed]Britain had no interest in controlling us anymore.[/QUOTE] <br />Sorry, we don't want to wait until you feel you no longer need us to move on. <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= Perturbed]Separatism is treason.[/QUOTE] <br />If you are against our desire for independence, you are clearly against democracy. Your desire for Canada including Québec is another issue I would rather not forward a theory about. <br /> <br />

[whelan costen]

No surprise but I agree with Perturbed, and I do think that all Canadians do have a stake in Canada, so Michou when you ask that who are you question? You must know the answer, we are like you we are Canadians and we do have an interest in keeping our country together. It isn't about forcing someone to do something, and the word treason is more appropriate than separatist, as Perturbed mentioned. When the sole purpose of a people is to usurp the country they live in to claim land, and resourses for themselves that is treason. Websters definition of 'Treason: the offense of attemtpting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which one owes allegiance...' <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />Of course I do not think it is a matter of 'hating the separatists' as the title suggests, but rather a matter of dislike the actions, feel threatened by those actions which will destroy our great country. <br /> <br />But of course I do expect you will tell me that I don't know what I am talking about, my judgement is off, and who am I anyway, which is fine.

[samuel]

[QUOTE BY= whelan costen]Websters definition of 'Treason: the offense of attemtpting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which one owes allegiance.[/QUOTE] <br />Oh my gosh, I'm dreaming? Wow that's an outrageous statement whelan, overthrow? <br /> <br />Let's just pretend you didn't read all of that definition, what exactly do you feel Québec owes Canada? I highly suggest you visit http://www.gouv.qc.ca before answering and take a good look at what we've built.

[michou]

self censored

[michou]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] [QUOTE BY= whelan costen] <br /> I highly suggest you visit http://www.gouv.qc.ca before answering and take a good look at what we've built.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />You are wasting your time Samuel. Some here on this board are not looking for answers. <br />They've already decided what is good for Canada and everybody else had better dance to their own beat and those who don't will be branded as traitors and put in jail or just hanged (simpler, less costly to taxpayers and definite). <br /> <br />"You are with us or against us" (Seems I heard that somewhere) <br /> <br />So whelan, how long before Canada gets its own Guantanamo Bay ?

[michou]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] [QUOTE BY= whelan costen] <br /> I highly suggest you visit http://www.gouv.qc.ca before answering and take a good look at what we've built.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />You are wasting your time Samuel. Some here on this board are not looking for answers. <br />They've already decided what is good for Canada and everybody else had better dance to their own beat and those who don't will be branded as traitors and put in jail or just hanged (simpler, less costly to taxpayers and definite). <br /> <br />"You are with us or against us" (Seems I heard that somewhere) <br /> <br />So whelan, how long before Canada gets its own Guantanamo Bay ?

[Calumny]

One person's treasonous dog is another's revolutionary hero. <br /> <br />I'm still waiting for the facts and numbers from either side to support their positions, e.g., demonstrating how either Quebec or Canada will become economic backwater if Quebec were to leave or vice versa. <br /> <br />I took the economic standpoint because in the end that's what's going to matter to most people. If for example, Quebec went down the tubes, becoming a sort of northern Kentucky with its population being used for cheap labour by the States, I'd be willing to bet that there wouldn't be a lot of people that are going to be thinking 'that's okay, at least we preserved our culture'. I'm not saying this would happen, only making the point that people's primary interest is in providing the neccesities of life for themselves and their own. <br /> <br />On the other hand, those opposed to separation are falling back on the if Quebec leaves 'there goes Canada' line that we've heard for years. Where are the facts that support that argument? By facts, I mean numbers, etc., not a 'well it's obvious' or 'common-sense' type of argument. <br /> <br />If Quebec left Canada all that could potentially happen is that the on-going process of U.S. assimilation of the northern part of our continent might be shortened. Then again, it might not. Something really bad would happen only if Canada tried to keep a seceding Quebec in confederation by the use of military force, which likely wouldn't be feasible without U.S. 'assistance' or the separatist element in Quebec got tired of waiting and attempted a 'coup', which due to its 'destabilizing' influence on the continent would likely result in U.S. intervention to preserve both U.S. security and the 'right of free Canadians in Quebec'. <br /> <br />In all honesty, if any province separated from Canada and nobody bothered to tell Joe and Joline citizen, e.g., feds and provincial government agreed to keep it secret, would most Canadians even notice? <br /> <br />To reiterate, in the immortal words of Joe Friday 'just the (verifiable) facts'... <br /> <br />Totally off topic, I have a story I found amusing. <br /> <br />A (French heritage and language) friend of mine grew up in the Jonquiere region, leaving only to go to university. Some time ago, she was asked to visit Jonquiere as part of a mostly English only speaking team introducing a new computer system she'd worked on. She hadn't met any of the audience before. <br /> <br />She gave the presentation in French, the only problem arising with some acronyms used by the audience (a lot of acronyms used in day to day business). She knew the English version of the acronym, having worked with it every day, but was unfamiliar with the French acronyms for some lesser used names. Many of the audience were familiar with both the English and French and were kind enough to help her out by using the more familiar (to her) English acronym when required. This aside, the presentation went pretty well. <br /> <br />After the presentation one of the audience complimented her, saying she spoke pretty good French for an Anglophone. <br /> <br />I'll leave her response to your imagination. This story is a lot funnier when she tells it. <br /> <br />P.S., no offense intended, Samuel, but what I really hate is the subject name you chose for this thread. 'Why I'm pissed off with separatists' might have more aptly described the feelings of most of those Quebec and non-Quebec folks who are on the other side of the issue'. I'd suggest 'hate' is way too strong. <br /> <br />

[samuel]

Yes hate is a strong word Calumny and perhaps I shouldn't of used it because now many will feel excluded from taking pot shots at us. <br /> <br />I'll just say this, I've had the opportunity to collaborate with Canadians from coast to coast to coast and all of which were/are outstanding gentlemen in a frame of civility. It is only since this advent of the internet that I realise how deep rooted unfounded resentment can exsist. <br /> <br />Canadians should, at the very least, consider and tolerate our tireless determination to withstand assimilation. At the very least, tolerate our desire of self preservation through democracy.

[Calumny]

Oh, I doubt if you'll find yourself lacking in the 'pot shots'. <br /> <br />Most of the people taking the pot shots will be doing so because they love their country and are concerned for its future, not out of resentment towards Quebec or its people. <br /> <br />I have noticed with the web that many speak to each other in a way I'm dubious would necessarily be the case if they were face to face. Anonymity seems to breed incivility in some. <br /> <br />There is obviously resentment, whether founded or not, on both sides. I tend to think that this is often misdirected, e.g., resentment on each side might better be directed towards Ottawa than each other, or based on misunderstandings and/or a lack of knowledge. <br /> <br />As you're aware, I believe it would be in the best long-term interest of all for Quebec to remain in Canada. You do not. I think it would be pointless for us to debate the issue endlessly and pick away at every statement made by the other because neither of us is likely to change our position and the end result wouldn't, to my mind, be productive or worthwhile for either. So, I'd rather just listen to what you have to say and present my own perspective when I feel it might be relevant. <br /> <br />Having not grown up in Quebec, I really can't understand the experiences that would lead one to the conclude that separation of the province from Canada is the only way to preserve its culture and values. Obviously, the life experiences of many have led to a conclusion that I don't understand, so I'm hoping to acquire more of an understanding through threads like this.

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] <br />Canadians should, at the very least, consider and tolerate our tireless determination to withstand assimilation. At the very least, tolerate our desire of self preservation through democracy.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />That's the thing that gets me about this whole debate. Why do you fear assimilation? <br /> <br />Canadians are very tolerant of other cultures. My family and traditions go back to the homeland over 3000 years of culture. My family has been in Canada over 200 years, and we have not lost our culture. <br /> <br />Cultures and traditions are not repressed here. In fact, it's a place to experience others. <br />