[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= cathou79] [QUOTE BY= Delenda Carthago] <br />[QUOTE]I think that and the fact that when I was a teen working at McDonald's every time people came from Quebec they almost always asked for poutine, honestly. Maybe that's how misconceptions and in some cases stereotypes get started <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'> [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Here in Quebec, I'm pretty sure Poutine isn't sold in McDonalds. <br /> <br /> <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />i'm not helping my case but... yes poutine is sold in every mcdonald in the province... and in burger king... and harveys... and in every damn fast-food restorant here... but i dont like poutine either (except italian, replace the gravy by spagetti sauce <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'> )[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Oh, that is to tell you how big a fan of poutine I am. McDonalds used to sell pizzas and I loved it. Now, they stopped selling it. They should do the same with poutine.

[Guest]

<br />[QUOTE]The ROC is quick to point out that Anglos in Quebec have limits on their freedom of expression where Francos outside of Quebec do not. <br /> <br />Similarly separatists would argue that Quebec Anglos are able to keep their educational institutions and hospitals, while outside of Quebec, francophones do not. Both of these statements are correct.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />You can't compare a mouse to an elephant. Francos outside Quebec may have freedom of expression, but do they exercise it? You make it look that francophones outside Quebec are being done a favour. Freedom of expression doesn't mean much when the assimilation rate is alarming. <br /> <br />We have already said here that Acadians will be extinct in a couple of decades at the most. Bill 101 in Quebec was the only way we could protect our language. Although I admit this could be an irritant for anglos, they have to realize that our survival comes first for us, that all North America functions in English and Quebec is the only place where French can be more than a folkloric language. In Montreal even today, you can still get a job and you can get by in everyday life if you speak English only. Needless to say that a unilingual franco in Toronto wouldn't go far...

[Kish]

[QUOTE BY= Delenda Carthago] <br />You can't compare a mouse to an elephant. Francos outside Quebec may have freedom of expression, but do they exercise it? You make it look that francophones outside Quebec are being done a favour. Freedom of expression doesn't mean much when the assimilation rate is alarming. <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I do not suggest that any special favour is being accorded to francophones outside of Quebec, only that in the ROC there is the rights of the individual supercede the rights of the collective, where this is the reverse in Quebec. (Note: I am not trying to impose a value judgement by this statement). <br /> <br />I agree that there is a challenge to maintain the French language and the culture - everyplace in North America. Threre are more spanish speaking persons in the United States than all the francophones in the Americas. <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= Delenda Carthago]Bill 101 in Quebec was the only way we could protect our language. Although I admit this could be an irritant for anglos, they have to realize that our survival comes first for us, that all North America functions in English and Quebec is the only place where French can be more than a folkloric language. In Montreal even today, you can still get a job and you can get by in everyday life if you speak English only. Needless to say that a unilingual franco in Toronto wouldn't go far... [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I undertand completely the motivations for Bill 101 (don't always agree, but completely understand). I would not call Bill 101 an irritant. It is something that you put up with and move on. As I mentionned earlier, we were still able to be born in, to be educated in and to die in Anglophone institutions. This to me is much more important than the OLF calls a hamburger. <br /> <br />I would agree that it is possible to get by in English in Montreal, but only get by. I would argue that the stereotypical fat old English store clerk in Eatons is as dead as the department store chain. To truly live in Montreal, one must be able to do it in French (even for the Anglos). Indeed, Quebec anglophones have been net beneficiaries of Bill 101. The ability to communicate in both English and French does wonders for employability, travel, broadening horizons. <br /> <br />When in Quebec, I speak French. When in Toronto, I speak English. No different than when I am in Paris or London. <br /> <br />Back to the title of this topic. I can disagree with seperatism, but to hate seperatists? Life is too short.

[samuel]

Kish, not only has it benefitted Anglos within Québec but don't think we are not aware that this "cultural différence" is put to the feds' advantage when negotiating trade agreements. <br /> <br />Years ago I spoke with the former mayor of New Orleans. While admitting the cultural genocide of American culture, he made it clear to me that if a Québec reality existed in the United States today, not only would they erect cultural barriers, but they would grant autonomous powers of self determination. <br /> <br />How does Canada deal with this? A federalist Québec provincial government goes on its own trade mission and all hell breaks loose. <br /> <br />Finally, as you can see from this thread and many others, some people do have time to hate separatists.

[Dino]

Samuel you are the one who created this title "Why I Hate Seperatists." <br /> <br />If you knew anything about the ROC is that people living in the ROC don't think about Quebec's place in Canada like Quebecers think about there provinces place in Canada. If it were a federalist who started this topic they wouldn't have made the title" Why I hate seperatists." <br /> <br />We don't hate seperatists we just think that seperatist arguments are weak. Breaking up a country because you want to protect your language and culture. Those two things can be protected without breaking apart a country.

[samuel]

<br>Dino you are true to your habits in not reading other people's posts. If you did you would know I started this thread for a select few separatist haters. The kind that start their threads with "DAMN SEPARATISTS - You bastards" and those like Perturbed who make no excuses for hating separatists. <br /> <br />You would also know that although it may of started out that way, Québec separatism is no longer about cultural insecurity. Quite the contrary, we feel confident, secure and mature enough to move on as a country now.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] Perturbed, I come here to read and on occassion I can't resist correcting a few misconceptions and/or distortions. <br /> <br />Here's what I could never understand though and one of the reasons I read this and other federalist sites. Canadians have been standing idly by while their own English Canadian heritage has been slipping out the door and in many cases is being sold out. <br /> <br />Do they not care and have no pride about their heritage? Why did they come charging to Québec in droves in 1995 and yet remain complaisant about their own assimilation? <br /> <br />The front page of this web site displays columns filled with backbone. Stop looking towards Québec for it, it's in your own yard and waiting to be acted upon. It is still not too late and Québec can take care of itself, obviously. <br /> <br />Michou, the ROC does not need a quite revolution, it needs a loud one and it needs it now.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />Thanks for the response, and I didn't mean to be insulting. <br /> <br />As for your question, I think the main reason we may seem complacent to you is the so-called "English-Canadians" are a very diverse group. There is no "English Canada" in the sense of a British Canada. They are a minority now. <br /> <br />That being said, I think we are less complacent than 10 yeears ago, trust me.....the fact Ontario voted Liberal got us a minority government, instead of a Harper majority--in that sense, Ontario saved Canada from a sellout fanatic. We love Canada, but we're quite reactive, wondering what to do, and if the NDP will deliver. (who Quebec should think about voting for IMO.) <br /> <br />I do agree that immigration is a threat eventually to out shared experience, but rigth now it is still a minority of our population. I don't believe that Toronto for example is great simply because of its huge immigrant population, but I think that Canada will eventually react against the globalization of people, as it has the globalzation of capital and goods. <br /> <br />Give us time. Remember--in the 1930s, we had independence from Britain, but even in the 1940s and 1950s, we were still worshiping "Our king." We're a young country. <br /> <br />We went from worshipping a king to worshipping the U.S. market, but that will change. <br /> <br />When the U.S. empire dies, we won't have any other country to follow--it'll HAVE be us for ourselves. <br /> <br />This means that anything that weakens the federal government is a bad thing, because although the feds suck, their power will be needed in the future, to thwart Canada's awful provincialism that benefits no one. <br /> <br />In closing, about separatism, I guarantee that elites like Parizeau, Duceppe don't want a separate coutnry--they want THEIR country. It's not about average people. They are quite willing to work with the American Council on Foreign Relation to destroy us--as Parizeau did.

[samuel]

Perturbed, immigrants who come to Canada willingly adopt one of two cultures. Either they adopt English Heritage or French Heritage, but in both cases they are very aware that this is not American culture and most are willing to fight for it as much as you do. <br /> <br />I can't speak for Québec or federal politicians. I will say this though, actions speak for themselves and the Liberal rape this country has experienced during their reign is enough to make all of us sick. As a second generation sovereigntist, I have never wanted out as much as I do now.

[cathou79]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br /> <br />As for your question, I think the main reason we may seem complacent to you is the so-called "English-Canadians" are a very diverse group. There is no "English Canada" in the sense of a British Canada. They are a minority now. <br /> <br />(...) <br /> <br />In closing, about separatism, I guarantee that elites like Parizeau, Duceppe don't want a separate coutnry--they want THEIR country. It's not about average people. They are quite willing to work with the American Council on Foreign Relation to destroy us--as Parizeau did.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />i would that for us, english is english, whatever if it's britain or american. but i'm shock that you said that there's no english canada as in british. i've talk to ontarian (i think 16 years old) who told me that when he was elemental school they had to salut ethe flag, sing the nation anthem, and pledge allegence to the queen everyday. that's it fairly common for a house to have some sort of queens portrait or something like that. here, well, remember that the last time the queen came to canada, she did every province, except quebec... <br /> <br />ok, for personal experience, i could tell you that Duceppe is the most honest politician we have, and i have total confidence in him that he will try to separate quebec for the average person.

[Dino]

First there is no saluting to the british flag in Canada. Having a picture of Queen Elizabeth in peoples homes is ridiculous and not true. The last time queen elizabeth came to Canada she didn't visit all provinces. Besides if you were to give all Canadians a vote to become a republic to get rid of the queen it would be an overwhelming vote for yes. <br /> <br />Duceppe is so honest that last election he campaigned the whole time that it wasn't about separation then when his final results came in he was talking about how quebec put there trust in a party that wants separation.

[cathou79]

[QUOTE BY= dino] First there is no saluting to the british flag in Canada. Having a picture of Queen Elizabeth in peoples homes is ridiculous and not true. The last time queen elizabeth came to Canada she didn't visit all provinces. Besides if you were to give all Canadians a vote to become a republic to get rid of the queen it would be an overwhelming vote for yes. <br /> <br />Duceppe is so honest that last election he campaigned the whole time that it wasn't about separation then when his final results came in he was talking about how quebec put there trust in a party that wants separation.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />i was talking about salute the canadian flag, i know that you dont salute the british flag. ok, i guess it's a myth that you keep picture of queen elisabeth in your home. but what about public building and school ? here the only place you can find picture of the queen is in your wallet on your money and stamps... and i'm not that sure that the complete separation of britain and canada would won that easily... <br /> <br />and for duceppe. well, the only thing i can say is that i'Ve personal experience qith the guy, and believe me, he is honest.

[Guest]

[QUOTE]Duceppe is so honest that last election he campaigned the whole time that it wasn't about separation then when his final results came in he was talking about how quebec put there trust in a party that wants separation[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Before blaming the Bloc of manipulation, have you looked at Paul "CSL" Martin? He promised, during the campaign, that he would go to the bottom of the sponsorship scandal...he installed the gomery Commission which isn`t any more serious than a Vaudeville. Do you think that the guilty ones will be punished? André Ouellett still receives his paycheck. <br /> <br />The only one he fired was Carolyn Parrish. I don`t want to start debating about Parrish here, but let's say Parrish had stepped on a "Bernard Landry" doll. Do you think she would have lost her job? <br /> <br />

[michou]

self censored

[Dino]

Parrish was never fired because she stepped on a george bush doll it's because of the comments she made about Paul Martin.

[samuel]

No it isn't why she was fired. She gave them a convenient excuse to fire her, but the real reason was conveyed by Martin to George WorldEmperor Bush: <br /> <br /><i>"À mots couverts, le premier ministre Paul Martin a fait samedi une ultime tentative pour convaincre le président américain George W. Bush de s'adresser au Parlement lors de sa visite officielle en lui mentionnant qu'il avait mis à la porte de son caucus la députée qui le qualifiait de «va-t-en guerre» ou «d'idiot»."</i> <br /> <br />TRANSLATION: <br /> <br />In private, Prime Minister Paul Martin made an ultimate plea to convince President George Bush to address Parliament during his official visit by conveying that he had fired from his caucus the MP who referred to him as a "War-like man" and "idiot".