[samuel]

Oh my, there must be a problem with the site. I just lost what would of turned out to be a lengthy and boring perspective to you I'm sure <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/redface.gif' alt='Oops!'>

[whelan costen]

well let's hear it, then we'll decide if it's boring.

This site is only as good as the participants chose to make it, so don't complain about our perspective unless you are prepared to contribute something for us to think about.

[samuel]

I was drawing up the courage to retype my entire post, but I'm sorry you feel I've come here to complain and will refrain from further comment (see cultural gap). <br /> <br />Samuel

[whelan costen]

<i>Why is it that only when it's convenient, francophone issues are brought forth as something worth protecting from Americans at all costs when in fact, Anglo-Canadian prejudice represents THE greatest threat to French culture? <br /> <br />I will attempt to weigh into your one-sided views here for a moment with a French perspective</i> <br /> <br />Gee pardon me if I took that as a complaint...you withdraw so easily ...it makes me wonder if you were truly convinced about your argument? Also if you read more than one post you would see that nothing on vive is one sided, we always encourage other views, the hope is that we will be able to understand each others point of view. <br /> <br />So don't be discouraged because I remarked on your opening statement...please continue...if it is something you believe in than it is worth saying, as long as it follows vive's guidelines, everything is welcome. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> <br /> <br />But I will warn you that if you post it, and people don't agree they will post an opposing argument. That is democracy, Non?

[sthompson]

Samuel has been emailing me and I hope he does continue to post since this is a discussion that is important and needs to be covered, ie whether a movement for civic Canadian sovereignty can make connections with activists in Quebec. <br /> <br />There are different opinions on that. Generally this site recognizes that there are different sovereignties in Canada, and our mission statement uses the plural to recognize English Canada, Quebec, and our First Nations equally. <br /> <br />My feeling is that corporate globalization, or the ability of trade bodies and trade agreements to overturn the decisions of democratically elected governments, is as much of a threat to Quebec as to English Canada. Also while some have regarded America as a potential ally in gaining Quebec sovereignty, I can't personally believe that harmonizing our Canadian policies with the country that changed "French fries" to "Liberty Fries" is going to make things better for Quebec. Also, Quebeckers are generally far more progressive than English Canadians -- in general Quebec was more antiwar than the rest of Canada re Iraq, for example -- and I can't see how that would gel at ALL with George Bush's America. Generally, harmonization with the U.S. at this point in history means adopting LESS progressive policies across Canada and I am sure many Quebeckers must share Vive's distaste for that. <br /> <br />This also intersects with the recent federal election. The Bloc did well, but was it because of support for separatism or support for progressive policy? <br /> <br />But as I said, all of this NEEDS discussion, and please post en Francais if you prefer. <br /> <br />Lastly, I would like to remind everyone that if you have problems posting to the forum, you can contact any forum moderator or admin, or ask questions by posting to the "forum help" topic. Usually it works to just try again. <br /> <br />But I would encourage people not to stop posting simply because someone else disagrees. What a boring forum that would make.

[michou]

Bonjour Samuel et un gros merci à Whelan et Sthompson pour l'ouverture d'esprit dont ils font preuve. <br /> <br />Sthompson knows that when one wants to speak of "sovereignty " in Canada, the plural form is usually the preferred use <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'> , at least for some of us. <br /> <br />I too am a separatist and a Québec sovereignist. I have not posted long on ViveleCanada and those who have read my posts know of my allegiances already. <br />Although my family roots also date back to the 17th century, like you also, it is Québec's future I have at heart. <br /> <br />In English or French, when you get your words back, I and this lot would like to read your take on .... whatever were you going to write <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/question.gif' alt='Question'> <br /> <br />SVP, éclaires-nous un peu.

[samuel]

Salut michou, <br /> <br />Je ne suis pas venu ici pour éclairer qui que ce soit. Je suis tombé sur ce site par pur hasard et trouvais ça curieux qu'un nom francophone soit utilisé afin de promouvoir des valeurs anglo-canadiennes. <br /> <br />Le point que je voulais soumettre, et qui malheureusement fut interpréter comme étant de la récrimination, est simplement que je considère aberrant le fait que les anglophones brandissent la bannière culturelle francophone comme étant un atout majeur à protégée des Américains. La réalité c'est que le Canada anglais menace la culture québecoise, et ce, de plus en plus. <br /> <br />Je me suis carrément trompé de site, ce n'est pas la première fois que je reçois ce genre d'attitude des anglophones, mais j'essaie de l'éviter. La réalité franco-canadienne ça se vit et d'essayer de l'expliquer est trop souvent accueillit de façon méprisante. <br /> <br />Voici un exemple flagrant et récent de discrimination, et ce, de la part d'une université canadienne ni plus ni moins! Est-ce qu'il y en a ici qui croient que les Américains auraient forcé cet aveugle à parler anglais à son chien voyant? <br /> <br />http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/soundoff/story.html?id=aa412aa6-5d4f-4546-bed4-8bf9df92eb2f <br /> <br />Samuel

[gaulois]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] <br /> <br /> La réalité c'est que le Canada anglais menace la culture québecoise, et ce, de plus en plus. <br /> <br />Samuel[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />On pourrait dire aussi que les américains menacent la culture canadienne (&toutes les autres!), et ce, de plus ou en plus. Ou encore que les Québécois menacent la francophonie hors-Québec, et ce, de plus en plus <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'> <br /> <br />Je ne crois vraiment pas qu'il y ait des machinations machiavéliques autres que les forces démographiques. Lord Durham est bel et bien enterré. Il y a cependant besoin de trouver des solutions pratiques aux problèmes de la démographie sans faire appel aux idéologies polarisatrices ou aux discours de politiciens. L'histoire démontre bien ou cela mène. Il y aura toujours des cons et cela, de tous les côtés. <br /> <br />Je désire incidemment souhaiter la bienvenue à Samuel sur ce forum. J'espère que le forum permettra aux francophones du Québec et ceux hors-Québec de mieux se comprendre, parmi les autres objectifs. <br /> <br />

[Jesse]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel]Je ne suis pas venu ici pour éclairer qui que ce soit. Je suis tombé sur ce site par pur hasard et trouvais ça curieux qu'un nom francophone soit utilisé afin de promouvoir des valeurs anglo-canadiennes. <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Je ne crois pas que vivelecanada favorise d'attitudes anglophones plus qu'il favorise les autres; le nationalisme n'est pas limité aux anglophones (51% du Québec était nationaliste dans le dernier référendum). <br />Je suis un anglophone, mais je pense que la culture francophone est un atout majeur au Canada, menace extérieure ou non. <br />

[tifani]

Samuel, you mentioned the recent incident with the blind francophone man who couldn't participate in the immersion program for English because he had to speek French to it. This would have happened the same teh other way around, I did the same program for French immersion and it was very strict. I don't agree with the decision, but it is not an example of some kind of anglophone persecution of francophones, at all.

[michou]

Samuel a écrit: <br /><i>...je considère aberrant le fait que les anglophones brandissent la bannière culturelle francophone comme étant un atout majeur à protégée des Américains.</i> <br /> <br />C'est vrai. Les anglos se prennent maintenant pour les sauveurs du Québec ! Je ne dirais pas que c'est une approche aberrante de leur part mais plutôt un relant du complexe du colonisateur. (Let's save the savages from themselves and for their own good) <br /> <br />Voilà pourquoi plusieurs Anglos ne cessent de demander : "Mais comment survivrez-vous sans le reste du Canada ?" Comme si les Québécois étaient de petits enfants sans défenses, ayant besoin de protection et qui dépendent du fédéral pour leur pain quotidien. Pour ce qui est de la discrimination, il n'y en a que très peu sur ce site et lorsqu'elle se présente, c'est dû à l'ignorance du sujet plutôt qu'à de la malfaisance intentionnelle. <br /> <br />Les Anglos Canadiens ne comprennent pas pourquoi les Québécois ne craignent pas l'hégémonie Américaine autant qu'eux. C'est que nous ne partons pas des mêmes prémisses historiques et culturelles.. Ne parlant pas le même langue que les Américains ils nous croient encore plus fragile qu'ils ne le sont eux-mêmes face à la menace impérialiste de notre voisin du sud. <br />Au contraire et justement parce que notre culture et notre langue diffèrent tellement de nos voisins, le Québec a plus de chance de se maintenir à l'écart d'une emprise idéologique (lire Harper) et culturelle qui nous menace tous. Il serait plus sage pour le Canada anglais de se préoccuper de leur protection que celle des Québécois. Ils ont tendance à oublier que nous avons 200 années d'histoire derrière nous où nous avons justement dû protéger notre culture et notre langue des conquérants. Tiens donc, les Québécois devraient peut-être tous devenir des consultants en protection culturelle auprès du Canada anglais ! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'>

[samuel]

[QUOTE BY= tifani]I don't agree with the decision, but it is not an example of some kind of anglophone persecution of francophones, at all.[/QUOTE] <br />Speak for yourself tifany. I suppose the MIRA dog should renounce a lifetime of training and start understanding English too, please! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> <br /> <br />"Let's save the savages from themselves and for their own good" <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'>

[tifani]

Samuel, obviously you did not understand what I wrote, so I'll restate it. I said I did not agree with the decision not to allow the man to attend with his dog. However, if he had been an anglophone doing the French immersion program and talking to his dog in English, it would have been no different. It has nothing to do with him being francophone, just the unreasonableness of the program co-odinators in general. I just took the program, I know what it is like.

[michou]

tifani and samuel, you are both right. <br /> <br />Stupidity and discrimination often go hand-in-hand and I think that immersion program director is an expert in both fields. <br />Between the director and the dog's common sense, I'd place my bet on the dog.

[samuel]

Sure you can dismiss it as an over zealous program director and assume a francophone institution would of done the same. I've dismissed too many incidents such as this. <br /> <br />I haven't been around here long enough to pass judgement on any of you, but before you complaisantly dismiss what francophones have been and continue to endure, please research the subject. You'll find most if not all problems occur from within our border, the Canadian one that is.