[tifani]

I didn't just dismiss it, but to jump to the conclusion that it happened because he was francophone and the coordinator or whoever made the decision is anglophone is irresponsible. In my experience, it has more to do with discrimination or misunderstanding or a person with a disability. And since I have had experience with the program, I have some knowledge of the issue. I did *not* "dismiss what francophones have been and continue to endure", only argue that this has nothing to do with francophone persecution or discrimination; if the man had been black or Muslim and the coordinator white and Christian, would you automatically assume it had to be racism?

[michou]

Ok so this little story toured the world and the people have spoken. It looks like 70 % of the those who contacted the university saw it for what it was, stupidity wrapped up in discrimination. <br /> <br />Here is the story :<a href="http://"> http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/sto ... /National/ <br /></a> <b>School turns tail, lets man and dog into class</b> <br /> <br />My favorite excerpt from text: <i>Prof. McIntyre, a law professor and director of the Human Rights Research and Education Centre at the University of Ottawa, questioned the university's argument that it was compromising the success of its English-immersion program. “That sounds pretty <b>dogmatic</b> to me.”</i> <br /> <br />Merci Samuel pour nous avoir fait part de cette nouvelle. Je me demandais, la décision aurait-elle été renversé aussi rapidement si elle était resté un simple fait divers dans la presse Canadienne ? <br />J'en doute. <br />

[samuel]

[QUOTE BY= tifani] I didn't just dismiss it, but to jump to the conclusion that it happened because he was francophone and the coordinator or whoever made the decision is anglophone is irresponsible. In my experience, it has more to do with discrimination or misunderstanding or a person with a disability. And since I have had experience with the program, I have some knowledge of the issue. I did *not* "dismiss what francophones have been and continue to endure", only argue that this has nothing to do with francophone persecution or discrimination; if the man had been black or Muslim and the coordinator white and Christian, would you automatically assume it had to be racism?[/QUOTE] <br />Read michou's article in the Gobe&Mail, you'll notice concern over this being a discrimination issue acquired international as well as Anglo Canadian attention. Thank goodness it's not only "irresponsible" Quebeckers "complaining". Absolutely if the man had been a francophone black or Muslim and the coordinator an anglophone white and Christian", I would assume it had to be racism combined with language discrimination. Hardliner Anglo Canadians hate the French, many of them can't even explain why.

[tifani]

It was a discrimination issue, but not against francophones. It was against a person with a disability. That was the only real variable.

[Kory Yamashita]

You know, I'm sick of Quebec's incessant habit of pulling this seperatism card out every time something comes up. We in Western Canada are equally alienated. BC's rather unique mix of hardline right-wing extremists and Greenpeace hippies goes completely unnoticed. <br /> <br />The West suffers from Mad Cow, poor grain prices, poor fisheries administration (the East Coast too), poor environmental support, and a general lack of interest for our interests. The Softwood Lumber dispute, which is vital to the well-being of BC, wasn't even a major election issue. <br /> <br />And there is a Western identity that is falling to the pressures of Ontario. And an East-coast identity that is succumbing as well. (And Quebec too, of course). <br /> <br />But more importantly, there is a Canadian mosaic identity that is falling to the Americans. Our national identity is one of diversity and acceptance. We need to preserve that. <br /> <br />When seperatists want to preserve their identity, I agree. When First Nations want to preserve their culture, I agree. When Westerners or Northerners want to preserve their identities, I also agree. <br /> <br />What the Quebecois have ignored is the fact that Canada is comprised of unique cultures co-existing. That means that a lot of other cultures are also being insulted by different types of cultural arrogance. And as a whole, the country of Canada is being insulted by the corporate takeover of its land, resources, people, and spaces. <br /> <br />We must fight back against the oppressive economic forces of unchecked capitalism. We need to protect the all-Canadian attitude of unique cultures peacefully co-existing. It is this larger truth that explains not only the pains of Quebec, but those of Canada as a whole. <br /> <br />-KY

[michou]

I'm sorry to say Kory that you may have posted this on the wrong thread. This one is not about separatism but discrimination. <br />This 'unique' Canadian culture you mention, well I never heard anybody talk much about it until the 90's. Even Canadian symbols such as its flag and national anthem etc...do not date back further than my generation. Before that time it was still all about the Union Jack and God Save the Queen. Does it make it less important because of its novelty ? No it doesn't but there is nothing to 'preserve' in Canada as much as something to build on. <br />You must also understand Kory that for many Québecers, Québec is a nation AND a pluralistic one, just like the rest of Canada. It has its own cultural mishaps between its inhabitants just like the rest of Canada does. <br />This thread is not about the corporate takeover either. Unchecked capitalism is a sickness that is quickly engulfing North America, thanks to our southern neighbor. America is sick, the empire is dying and fighting for its survival by raping and pushing away everyone and everything which stands in its way. American deMOCKracy is on its last leg. So let us not go down the same road they've taken or we will crash and die with them when their broken systems cannot hold out anymore. In order to maintain our separateness from this overpowering neighbor, our best chance is to let all voices be heard and not a single issue should take precedence over another. <br />I don't want to end up living in "One nation under God" anymore than you do.

[samuel]

Il n'y a pas de « culture canadienne » sauf pour le multiculturalisme en soit. Même ce joyau commercial qu'est « Tim Horton » fut copié du concept américain « Dunkin Donuts ». Je me suis déjà attardé sur ce sujet en fouillant le site internet de Patrimoine Canada ainsi que plusieurs autres en quête d'une définition claire et précise de la « culture canadienne » sans succès. <br /> <br />Ce que j'essaie de comprendre ici c'est qu'est ce qu'ils cherchent à protéger des Américains au juste les Anglos Canadiens? Je ne conçois d'autre réponse que les intérêts commerciaux du Canada et si c'est le cas, pourquoi doivent-ils le faire derrière un voile de culturalisme. De plus, en tant que consommateurs nous avons été privés de concurrence pendant des générations et voilà qu'ils cherchent à l'éloigner? Prenons Bell Canada par exemple, même à ce jour ils jouissent de monopole sur la téléphonie locale! Nous la méritons cette concurrence et je dirais même que c'est une question d'urgence nationale. <br /> <br />Le vrai concept « Made in Canada » est le fait que les grandes entreprises de ce pays ont réussies à implanter l'idée que commerce=culture au sein du gouvernement fédéral. Qu'ils commencent par la définir cette soi-disant culture. <br />

[michou]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] Qu'ils commencent par la définir cette soi-disant culture. <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Pas mal, pas mal du tout...pour un timbit ! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'>

[Reverend Blair]

[QUOTE]This 'unique' Canadian culture you mention, well I never heard anybody talk much about it until the 90's. Even Canadian symbols such as its flag and national anthem etc...do not date back further than my generation. Before that time it was still all about the Union Jack and God Save the Queen.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Maybe that's a big piece of the problem. I heard a lot about "that" (Canadian culture etc.) in the eighties, actually. And in the seventies too, come to think about it. The present flag and anthem are really all I remember. I'm damned near forty. I never worried about Canada until Mulroney started singing about Irish eyes. <br /> <br />I do remember the FLQ Crisis though. I remember, years after the the crisis, reading the manifesto and wondering what the hell the hoofera was all about, too...not because of the demands, but because the demands needed to be made. Most of it seems so obvious that it never should have arisen in a democratic country. <br /> <br />So maybe it's time to move on? Quebec can stay or go as far as I'm concerned. Canada will be a lesser place without them and Quebec will be a lesser place without Canada, but what the hell? It will make a few in Quebec happy and a few in Alberta happy and that should be enough. Shouldn't it? Of course I live in Maintoba...

[whelan costen]

While I agree with the Rev that it's time to move on; as we have bigger enemies on the horizon; I don't think that Quebec should go or that it really doesn't matter; as I have said previously on the Canadian Poems very long detailed postings...I think all provinces matter and it's time we started making certain that Ottawa knows it! Every Canadian should matter and all of our needs are important, too much of our legitimate demands are ignored while many expensive patronizing deals are made. <br /> <br />In 1967 when Canada celebrated its centenial and we were all singing the Canada song,in both official languages and proud of it; we were waving flags and promoting a country that was free and had one hundred years of unity without killing each other or taking over any other countries...that is history to be proud of, not to mention the many many other accomplishments. The book Canada Firsts lists many of our achievments. <br /> <br />It is not accurate to say we don't have a history, we have a history of struggles and yes we are a young country but we need to build on our strengths not hand it over to others to destroy. I am proud to wave our Maple Leaf, very proud!

[samuel]

[QUOTE BY= whelan costen]I think all provinces matter and it's time we started making certain that Ottawa knows it![/QUOTE] <br />This is the second time Quebeckers send 54 separatist seats to Ottawa, what else can we do to get your attention? We have a saying in this province, here's a translation "Canada does not listen, we will have to decide for ourselves".

[michou]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] [QUOTE BY= whelan costen]I think all provinces matter and it's time we started making certain that Ottawa knows it![/QUOTE] <br />This is the second time Quebeckers send 54 separatist seats to Ottawa, what else can we do to get your attention? We have a saying in this province, here's a translation "Canada does not listen, we will have to decide for ourselves".[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Merci Samuel. <br /> <br />Ce n'est pas Ottawa qui décidera du statut du Québec. Seuls les Québécois et Québécoises ont le droit de le faire.

[samuel]

Salut michou, <br /> <br />whelan costen semble croire qu'il est possible pour les provinces de faire comprendre quoique ce soit à Ottawa. Je voulais seulement lui souligner qu'après les nombreuses tentatives du Québec pour parvenir à cette fin, c'est une chose peu probable <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'>

[whelan costen]

Quote: "This is the second time Quebeckers send 54 separatist seats to Ottawa, what else can we do to get your attention? We have a saying in this province, here's a translation "Canada does not listen, we will have to decide for ourselves".

The problem with this last election of 54 Bloc getting elected is that the platform was clear, 'No, we aren't talking separation, we are only talking about representing Quebec and getting the crooks out of Ottawa' We heard that all through the campaign, on the night of the election results, Duceppe started saying this is a clear decision to separate!

I think many people who voted Bloc to stop the liberals may be a tad disappointed with this language.

[michou]

[QUOTE BY= whelan costen] <br />The problem with this last election of 54 Bloc getting elected is that the platform was clear, 'No, we aren't talking separation, we are only talking about representing Quebec and getting the crooks out of Ottawa' We heard that all through the campaign, on the night of the election results, Duceppe started saying this is a clear decision to separate! <br /> <br />I think many people who voted Bloc to stop the liberals may be a tad disappointed with this language. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/frown.gif' alt='Frown'> [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />You are right of course Whelan. Duceppe is a politician like all the others and they do speak with forked tongues don't they ? <br /> <br />Throughout the campaign, Duceppe never hid the fact that the Bloc is a separatist party. He said a vote for the Bloc was not a vote for sovereignty but a vote for a party that supports it. This is a true statement. This election was not a referendum about Québec sovereignty. <br /> <br />So Duceppe is not totally incorrect in saying how voters who voted for his party also voted in support of sovereignty. Not quite correct either but hey ! It's politics. <br />