[Newsbot]

Title: The Crumbling of the Mainstream Press and Media in Canada. PLart Three.
Topic: Democracy
Written By: Robin Mathews
Date: Monday, May 05 at 19:06
"The National" said it all on April 24, 2014.  Public Broadcasting is betraying the Canadian people.
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[Individualist]

Well, it looks like Vive has finally ground to a complete halt. At what point do we put this monument to Susan Thompson's Americaphobia out of its misery and tell Mathews to go get a blog like everyone else?

[gaulois]

Vive had its moments. Kind of too bad that it drizzled away. Will someone bother writing a post-mortem?

[Individualist]

gaulois gaulois:

Vive had its moments. Kind of too bad that it drizzled away. Will someone bother writing a post-mortem?

I think that old-style Watkins/Laxer (and yes, Mathews) anti-American form of nationalism is a tougher sell among centre-left Canadians now that there's a Democrat in the White House (a black one no less, with a woman well-positioned to succeed him) and a Conservative in 24 Sussex. It was much easier for the Waffle types in the Bush-Chretien days.

Add to that the fact that the BC contingent largely fled Vive for the comments board at The Tyee. If you're nostalgic for Ed Deak's braggadocio and repetitive rants against the concept of economic competition and in favour of replacing the law of supply and demand with the laws of thermodynamics in economics textbooks, you can still catch his act there.

Another factor is that with the rise of Russia and China and relative decline of the US, we are no longer in the unipolar world that we faced at the end of the Cold War. Don't get me wrong, Yankee-bashing is still one of the defining features of the Canadian left. It just doesn't win them as much favour outside their immediate circle as it used to.

[Dave Ruston]

Not sure how Vive has ground to a halt- it continues to publish true and relevant articles written by people who have a clue.

So-called anti- American nationalism never was about blind chest thumping, jingoistic hate. It was more of an expression of resentment Canadians had towards American governments and the power structure that controls them when they bully the Canadian government, like when we created the National Energy Program, the Avro Arrow, when we refused to send troops to Iraq to fight in a bullshit banker-corporate fascist war, or when we clearly had the advantage in the lumber trade, yet the US government imposed quotas on Canadian lumber sales to the US. Imagine the reverse happening!

The reasons this so-called Anti-American nationalism is a 'tougher sell' these days is because people are now realizing that the US government is also puppets to the banker-corporate fascists, just like our puppets! People know that the US government is not even acting in the best interest of most of it's own citizens- save the 1% banker corporate fascist types. Bush the idiot only made it easier to hate, given his obvious ignorance.

Just because a president may be black, or half- black in Obama's case, or a woman, doesn't mean the president is more progressive or moderate. Obama is actually worse than Bush because he is a tremendous liar! He has actually expanded wars world wide, all the while pretending to be a man of peace! And Hillary, if I'm to assume that she is the woman you're referring to, is just as much a blood thirsty war monger globalist puppet.

Thanks for directing me to the Tyee- I am nostalgic for the wise writings of Ed Deak. As for Russia and China 'rising to create a multi-polar world' let's not forget that Putin is also tap dancing to his script better than a Bolshoi dancer, and China has 'risen' only because of banks and western corporations choosing to invest in that grand sweatshop of a country.

Criticizing the US government, or not blindly siding with them is not 'Yankee bashing', nor is such an antic reserved for people of the left of centre persuasion only. But I do say, that we can and should deplore the globalist fascist demons that take their places in the Canadian, American, or Chinese governments, all the while refraining from hating the American, Chinese, or Russian people.

[Individualist]

"Clear!"....zzzzzt

Dave Ruston Dave Ruston:

So-called anti- American nationalism never was about blind chest thumping, jingoistic hate. It was more of an expression of resentment Canadians had towards American governments and the power structure that controls them when they bully the Canadian government, like when we created the National Energy Program, the Avro Arrow, when we refused to send troops to Iraq to fight in a bullshit banker-corporate fascist war, or when we clearly had the advantage in the lumber trade, yet the US government imposed quotas on Canadian lumber sales to the US. Imagine the reverse happening!

I acknowledge that Canadian nationalism was never about blind, jingoistic hatred for *you*, and undoubtedly many others. But just as you find many within anti-Zionist circles who are just plain anti-Jewish, many prominent Canadian nationalists had and have bigoted, contemptuous attitudes towards the American people and their culture, not just their government and political/business elites.

I know you're not one of those people, and that you fix your target specifically on those you call the "banker corporate fascists". But if you read enough of Mathews' back catalogue on Vive and elsewhere, you'll see that he just plain hates the US. He sees nothing redeeming in the US as a country or in Americans as a people. And his is a typical Waffle view.

Dave Ruston Dave Ruston:

Thanks for directing me to the Tyee- I am nostalgic for the wise writings of Ed Deak. As for Russia and China 'rising to create a multi-polar world' let's not forget that Putin is also tap dancing to his script better than a Bolshoi dancer, and China has 'risen' only because of banks and western corporations choosing to invest in that grand sweatshop of a country.

You're welcome. Like I said, Ed has little new to say. Once could simply go through his old comments on Vive and get the same effect.

[RickW]

Individualist Individualist:

He sees nothing redeeming in the US as a country or in Americans as a people.

All one has to do is read the history of expansion of the US to realise there is nothing redeeming.

[Individualist]

RickW RickW:

All one has to do is read the history of expansion of the US to realise there is nothing redeeming.

Do you literally believe that? Is there any other country in the world you would say that about? Well, you've certainly undermined Dave's argument, and bolstered mine. Thanks, I guess.

[RickW]

Individualist Individualist:

RickW RickW:

All one has to do is read the history of expansion of the US to realise there is nothing redeeming.

Do you literally believe that? Is there any other country in the world you would say that about? Well, you've certainly undermined Dave's argument, and bolstered mine. Thanks, I guess.

You admire and think highly of a country that exists with it sole driving force "shock and awe"?

[Individualist]

RickW RickW:

You admire and think highly of a country that exists with it sole driving force "shock and awe"?

Funny, but I don't recall seeing a reference to "shock and awe" in the US Constitution or the Declaration of Independence. I haven't checked the Federalist Papers yet, but I'm thinking I won't find that expression there either.

There are many things to admire in the US, and also many things to criticize. And I can say that about pretty much every other country on the planet, including our own. The fact that you look at the US and see only military aggression and expansionism says far more about you and your ideological rigidity than it does about that country.

As the kids say, "haters gonna hate".

[Dave Ruston]

In all fairness to Rick and Robin, I think it is a stretch to call them haters. Have you ever been involved in a high tempo- high emotion hockey game, and you get bumping, grinding, and cheap shotting each other, until it gets to the point where you might yell to your opponent," Hey, you @#&*! I'm gonna *&^%$! kill ya! It doesn't mean you're actually planning on killing the guy!
I think Rick and Robin are merely having an emotional outburst on steroids here whenever they think of how the US government, corporations, and media either bully or overwhelm our own country. I know, I've been guilty of it myself in the past. But it doesn't mean we're going to go and shoot any American we see.
Let's be honest, 'shock and awe' has been happening all across the middle east and North Africa quite a bit over the last decade and a half thanks to the US military, as well as NATO and our own disgusting grovelling government and military.
Again, I say, Canada should pursue its own foreign policy, which is peaceful and mutually beneficial with whomever we deal with in unique bi-lateral agreements. Instead, we do whatever the big banks and their corporate buddies want, and at the first sign of Canada showing some independence, that's when the US has stepped up and basically arm twisted our government into complying. So, I can totally understand when my fellow Canadians get angry at this, and focus on criticizing the bad and malevolence our southern neighbour displays.

This does not mean we forget about the good that the USA has shared with the world in the past. We cannot deny that our own Canadian idea of a free, just society, was heavily influenced early on by the original concepts of American republicanism. Unfortunately, like Rome of old, republic has shapeshifted into evil empire.

[RickW]

Individualist Individualist:

Funny, but I don't recall seeing a reference to "shock and awe" in the US Constitution or the Declaration of Independence. I haven't checked the Federalist Papers yet, but I'm thinking I won't find that expression there either.

There are many things to admire in the US, and also many things to criticize. And I can say that about pretty much every other country on the planet, including our own. The fact that you look at the US and see only military aggression and expansionism says far more about you and your ideological rigidity than it does about that country.

As the kids say, "haters gonna hate".

The Federalist Papers were the first assault on the otherwise budding democracy of the USofA.
From paper#2 (Jay, 31 October 1787):

$1:

"Nothing is more certain than the indispensable necessity of government, and it is equally undeniable, that whenever and however it is instituted, the people must cede to it some of their natural rights in order to vest it with requisite powers."

That is the basis for your "shock and awe". Thomas Paine on the other hand:

$1:

Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher.
Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other law-giver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him, out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others.

[Individualist]

Dave Ruston Dave Ruston:

In all fairness to Rick and Robin, I think it is a stretch to call them haters. Have you ever been involved in a high tempo- high emotion hockey game, and you get bumping, grinding, and cheap shotting each other, until it gets to the point where you might yell to your opponent," Hey, you @#&*! I'm gonna *&^%$! kill ya! It doesn't mean you're actually planning on killing the guy!

The difference, of course, is that you cool down after you take the skates off and put your gear in the bag, and maybe even have a beer with the guy whose life you threatened on the ice. You don't rant about that cheap shot for decades to anyone who will listen.

$1:

I know, I've been guilty of it myself in the past. But it doesn't mean we're going to go and shoot any American we see.

Is that the threshold for you? As long as we're not killing them its all okay. Funny that the left doesn't seem so forgiving of hatred expressed against pretty much any other group.

RickW RickW:

The Federalist Papers were the first assault on the otherwise budding democracy of the USofA.
From paper#2 (Jay, 31 October 1787):

$1:

"Nothing is more certain than the indispensable necessity of government, and it is equally undeniable, that whenever and however it is instituted, the people must cede to it some of their natural rights in order to vest it with requisite powers."

Funny, someone from the Toronto Star editorial board would recognize that statement as cognate with one of the Atkinson Principles.

[Dave Ruston]

Well, Indy, this is more than one little cheap shot that can be forgotten over a beer. It has been as series of outright attacks and undermining of Canadian sovereignty over the years which continues to this day.

And yes, free speech is definitely my threshold! Sometimes, we just can't candy coat the realities. Sometimes, it takes vehement expression to get the point across to those who plug their ears. It may not always be pretty, but I'd rather blow off some steam through verbal expression as opposed to be restricted from expressing, then have that pent up emotion come out later like a geyser. Often, we use political correctness merely to stifle the exchange of ideas. In a word, censorship. So, yes, I support telling it like it is. Nothing happens when people get offended. If one is an adult, they should be able to deal with spoken words.

[Individualist]

Dave Ruston Dave Ruston:

And yes, free speech is definitely my threshold! Sometimes, we just can't candy coat the realities. Sometimes, it takes vehement expression to get the point across to those who plug their ears. It may not always be pretty, but I'd rather blow off some steam through verbal expression as opposed to be restricted from expressing, then have that pent up emotion come out later like a geyser. Often, we use political correctness merely to stifle the exchange of ideas. In a word, censorship. So, yes, I support telling it like it is. Nothing happens when people get offended. If one is an adult, they should be able to deal with spoken words.

Well, in the minds of some, our shared belief in free speech makes us un-Canadian. As Dean Steacy of the Canadian Human Rights Commission put it, "Freedom of speech is an American concept, so I don't give it any value... It's not my job to give value to an American concept."