[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= dbaker] Lets see I have had many conversations with Connie Fogal and have met and talked with Paul Hellyer!<br /> <br /> Paul folded like a deck of cards when the NDP shunned his advances.<br /> Paul (to his credit) during on visit to Penticton at a public debate indicated my Wheat Starch system would have at least a 100,000,000 dolar increase in the Canadian(GDP) Gross Domestic Product.<br /> <br /> They did lack the balls to bring my issues to the light of day, while indicating to me, moral support!<br /> <br /> CAP hap a real chance of influencing Canadian Politics, but lile Mel , they were just an illusion, of democracy, having no real intention of honest politics but more of Liberal side show.<br /> <br /> Dennis Baker[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> Mel Hurtig is 70+. Hellyer is 80+. That's why wouldn't you say?

[whelan costen]

Actually Perturbed, although age may play a part, I think, from what I've seen, these individuals put in more effort, time and work towards this country than many people half their age! The reality is that one person can't do it all, many people hold the same values as these individuals, they believe in Canada, they really believe but they can't or won't speak up, stand up themselves and that is what I see as the problem. Too many people want something but are afraid to reach for it, they are afraid of being criticized like Mel or Paul or Connie, they are afraid that maybe they don't know enough or that the government will harrass them or that their friends will condemn them. I don't think it is fair to blame these people for doing more than many, because many chose to fence sit! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/frown.gif' alt='Frown'> I totally disagree with your take Dbaker, you seem to like to blame and in this case you missed your mark. IMO

[Spud]

Great stuff!What we have now is socialism at it`s finest.<br /> The banks make a profit off the people,ie government spending.Is that not socialism?Hmmm.So the market system does not work after all.<br /> If it did why would the banks even want to loan money to a government?<br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= whelan costen] Actually Perturbed, although age may play a part, I think, from what I've seen, these individuals put in more effort, time and work towards this country than many people half their age! The reality is that one person can't do it all, many people hold the same values as these individuals, they believe in Canada, they really believe but they can't or won't speak up, stand up themselves and that is what I see as the problem. Too many people want something but are afraid to reach for it, they are afraid of being criticized like Mel or Paul or Connie, they are afraid that maybe they don't know enough or that the government will harrass them or that their friends will condemn them. I don't think it is fair to blame these people for doing more than many, because many chose to fence sit! I totally disagree with your take Dbaker, you seem to like to blame and in this case you missed your mark. IMO[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> yeah I know...it's impressive, but young people are the ones who will do it for us.....

[Zeeboo]

I figure I'd give my 2 cents on this... first of all the reason CAP will never be accepted as a real choice for a political party is this single issue. Monetary reform is the big scared cow of our society. As henry ford once said "If the people of this country knew how money was created there would be a revloution over night"... People aren't allowed to know about this issue in any true sense... 98% of all our money is made by private banks and backed by vitually nothing... most money is created by loans which a bank will give you to buy your house/car... the joke is for a 10000 dollar loan they have 500-1000 dollars so 9000 dollars is created out of nothing. the real sick part of this joke is they create money out of nothing and charge you interest on it. They just punch a few numbers in a computer as I am punching keys right now and presto you got money... so say your 10000 dollar loan is backed with 1000 dollars and they charge you 10% int per year... they got their original investment back in just one year! amazing how this scam has work for so long. oh and as the loan is paided back the money created is destroyed but on top of that is interest which helps create an endless cycle of debt (unless some debt is just forgiven)... As for our national debt it is created in part every year with savings bonds (I think 100 billion) but yeah we really shouldn't be in debt. <br /> <br /> As for that horse sh*t arguement that government printing money will create inflation... no it won't. It is the amount of money being printed not who prints it that creates inflation. eliminate fractional reserve lending and inflation will stop as long as government is allowed to create the money. Now this doesn't mean the government should or will go out and print billions of dollars... you just need enough to facilitate trade say 10000 dollars for every canadian. <br /> <br /> Looking at the states for example the federal reserve is a private bank with the bank of england owning 60% of that private corporation which the usa owes over 4 trillion dollars... oh and the bank of england is primarily owned by one family.<br /> <br /> This was the primary reason for the american revolution according to ben franklin. The colonies started printing their own money and after england made it stop was when that sh*t hit the fan...<br /> <br /> Now I know this is rather difficult to believe (I didn't at first) but look into all of this for yourself. you need to realize though that many people have been killed who have tried to change this all by lone gunmen (lincon who printed government money in the form of green backs, garfield who swore he'd get rid of the privatly owned central banks and JFK who had drafted a bill to end the fractional reserve system of lending just a month before his death) of course all these presidents dying was just bizzar happen stance and none of it is connected... people just seem to end up dead when they try to change this.<br /> <br /> On that note I would like to add that I've signed a petition as part of a lawsuit a gentleman has brought forth suing all major banks in this country... If it works all loans a debt will be cancelled (I'm not joking this is a real suit) so good luck to him. Here is the link... http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/<br /> <br /> As one of the rothechyleds once said "give me the power to print money and I care not who makes the laws." there is a really good movie that has been out since the mid 90's called "the money masters" the history of currency... you know in some parts of tibet yak dung was currency? Money is what ever we as a society decide it will be and as our technology increases our monetary system will move further into simply being numbers in a computer and then into a government issued multipass (like a credit or debit card.... maybe a thumb scan) which will mean good bye to all privacy in the products you buy.<br /> <br /> Simply put this is a recipe for a totalitarian nightmare and it will make 1984 look like a nice place to be. you'd be able to talk a conservative into gay but sex faster than the adverage person into caring about currency. anyway I said my piece... make up your own mind about this thing.<br /> <br /> Oh one last thing with government currency creation yes it has been done and sometimes with success and sometimes with disaster... the most successful method ever was with tally sticks... these were sticks in the 1200's that the kings would give out as currency. he would simply take a stick, split it in half, and spend half of it into the economy. the other half would be kept to stop counterfiets... god damn I'm a bad speller tonight... anyway that was one of the longest lasting most successful methods of currency ever created.... yes sticks and they didn't create inflation.

[JimS]

C.H. Douglas was one of the first to speak about credit, and it's creation. C.H. Douglas started the Social Credit movement, which Bill Aberhart, upon reading a book on Social Credit, formed the Alberta Social Credit Party. There was disagreement between Aberhart and Douglas from the beginning, as Douglas did not believe that Aberhart truly understood his theories. The issuance of prosperity certificates were based on the theories of Silvio Gissell, and had nothing to do with Social Credit. The federal government also ruled any legislation regarding money and banking unconstitutional as this is the responsibility of the federal government.<br /> <br /> Douglas himself separated costs into two categories:<br /> <br /> A costs = payments made to individuals as wages, salaries, or dividends (in other words payments made to individuals as income)<br /> <br /> B costs = payments made to other organizations<br /> <br /> Price comprises A+B, but income only comprises A. Since A will not purchase A+B a proportion of the price that is at least equivalent to B must be distributed to individuals in a manner not included in A (in other words does not comprise income from wages, salaries or dividends).<br /> <br /> The CAP wants to increase A using low interest loans for capital production, or government make work projects. Not only is this policy inflationary, as A forms a part of price; and hence, it's increase increases prices, but increasing A will not bring unity between prices and income so long as B > 0.<br /> <br /> The Social Credit scheme actually decreases prices. Douglas saw that the true cost of production is consumption in the equivalent time period. This means that if total production is 10, and total production of capital goods is 4, and total consumption of consumer goods is 6, then the real cost of production equals:<br /> <br /> financial cost $ * 6/10 <br /> <br /> Part of the cost of the product would be rebated to the consumer via the issuance of debt free money thus decreasing price by the proportion described above.<br /> <br /> Another aspect of Social Credit is the issuance of a dividend to help supplement the wage. Since governments don't use accrual accounting, there is no such thing as a government capital account - the national debt being the closest equivalent. Social Credit would flip the national debt to the national credit, and start paying everyone a modest dividend based upon the actual assets of the nation.<br /> <br /> Time and space does not allow me to elaborate further at this time.<br /> <br /> Needless to say that Paul Hellyer used to sit in the house as a liberal, and was very interested listening to the Social Credit members across the floor discuss monetary issues.

[JimS]

[QUOTE]As for that horse sh*t arguement that government printing money will create inflation... no it won't. It is the amount of money being printed not who prints it that creates inflation. eliminate fractional reserve lending and inflation will stop as long as government is allowed to create the money. Now this doesn't mean the government should or will go out and print billions of dollars... you just need enough to facilitate trade say 10000 dollars for every canadian. <br /> <br /> Looking at the states for example the federal reserve is a private bank with the bank of england owning 60% of that private corporation which the usa owes over 4 trillion dollars... oh and the bank of england is primarily owned by one family.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <b>FUTILITY OF BANK NATIONALIZATION </b><br /> <br /> If you are willing to admit that this ownership is justified there is nothing to be said; but if you are not - and I do not suppose in Northern Ireland (where there seems to remain a spark of that independent character which is apparently disappearing in England) that you are - do not be misled by any such phrase as 'The nationalization of banking.' The State and the banking system are very nearly one and the same thing at the present time and are wholly one in policy. <br /> <br /> While the Bank of England is a private bank owned by international financiers, the Treasury plays straight into its hands, and the nationalization of, for instance, the Bank of England, would mean the transfer of the Treasury into the Bank of England rather than the transfer of the Bank of England into the Treasury. <br /> <br /> The Commonwealth Bank of Australia is a Government Bank, but its policy is identical with the policy of the Bank of England; and the same comment is applicable to the Bank of New Zealand, which has just been nationalized with the able assistance of its governor (who was sent out from the Bank of England to do the job), and the Bank of Canada.<br /> <br /> <u>No nationalization of banking will put one penny into the hands of the individuals comprising the countries over whom it rules, so long as this question of the ownership of money is left unaltered. But if it once be admitted that the community, not the Government, is the owner of the money, and the individual, as part of the community, is entitled to his share of it, the situation is obviously very different.</u> <br /> <br /> (C.H. Douglas, "Dictatorship by Taxation)<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.alor.org/Library/Dictatorshipbytaxation.htm#1a">Dictatorship by Taxation</a><br />

[Brother Jonathan]

JimS,<br /> <br /> thanks for the introduction to Social Credit and the link to Douglas’ speech. I don’t know Thing One about Social Credit, but after having found <a href="http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/socialcredit/socialcredit.htm">an online link to Douglas’ <i>Social Credit</i> book</a>, I’ll have a chance to learn something about it in greater detail.

[JimS]

[QUOTE]thanks for the introduction to Social Credit and the link to Douglas’ speech. I don’t know Thing One about Social Credit, but after having found an online link to Douglas’ Social Credit book, I’ll have a chance to learn something about it in greater detail.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> You're more than welcome. Unfortunately, there aren't many websites that carry Douglas' material. The book you found is at mondo-politico it take it?<br /> <br /> Here's an online copy of Douglas' book, "Warning Democracy":<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.alor.org/Library/Warning%20Democracy.htm#1a">Warning Democracy</a><br /> <br />

[Calumny]

Thanks for the links.<br /> <br /> I've known of Social Credit for years however, never read up on what it was all about.

[JimS]

[QUOTE]Thanks for the links.<br /> <br /> I've known of Social Credit for years however, never read up on what it was all about.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> You're very welcome. I think Social Credit is just coming into it's own as it was well ahead of it's time, and people like the people at COMER are just beginning to see the genius of Douglas, even if the COMER people are still Neo-Keynsians.

[Confederatist]

Ya it is a very important issue and our media dont talk of it a lot!!! Maybe because they are corporate media linked to the money master???<br /> <br /> Ever heard of the Amero???<br /> <br /> <a href="http://oldfraser.lexi.net/publications/critical_issues/1999/amero/">here</a><br /> <br /> They want to get rid of national money...<br /> <br /> Will we let this happen???<br /> <br /> I think it can be realy dangerous!<br /> <br /> Ever heard of the Rothschild?<br /> <br /> What one of em said???<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<b>Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws. <br /> Mayer Amschel Rothschild</b><br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/mayeramsch178084.html">here</a><br /> <br /> We are so lucky that the net exist now because now we can share our knowledge with each other rather than just refere to corrupted media!<br /> <br /> If you wanna know more on money issues take a look at the movies links below!!!<br /> <br /> <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4991544789166784731">Money Master</a><br /> <br /> <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7065177340464808778">Monopoly men</a>