[Dr Caleb]

Welcome to Vive Zeeboo!<br /> <br /> Gun Control means you have to practice more often to get a better grouping, therefore more 'Gun Control'.<br />

[Zeeboo]

for pot the stats from canada about two years ago were something like 1/3 smoke pot in their life times and 3 million above the age of 15 smoked within the last year... that's 12% of that population. I bet those numbers are a little low. for high school seniors it is like 1/3 - 1/2. These laws are a joke and should have never been made in the first place. To anyone that thinks they are a good thing I ask you when exactly we will begin seeing benifits from pot criminalization.

[KevinGagnon]

What is very Ironic about marijuana being illegal, with support from the religious right. Is that the religious right allow, and put no pressure on politicians, while using substances like alcohol or tobacco. <br /> <br /> How they deny something created at the same time as humans, by the same God. But they accept man made substances from alcohol to pharmicutical drugs.<br /> <br /> <b>Legal (and things part of society)</b><br /> <br /> Automobiles built to do speeds of 220 (how many deaths as a result?)<br /> Tobacco (how many deaths as a result?)<br /> Alcohol (how many deaths as a result?<br /> Guns (how many deaths as a result?)<br /> Knifes (how many deaths as a result?)<br /> Chemical cleaning products (how many slow deaths as a results?)<br /> <br /> on and on........... you get the point.<br /> <br /> And marijuana is illegal?<br /> <br /> Kevin

[Zeeboo]

Man it is illegal because there is more money/control in making marijuana illegal. The reason it is called weed is because it grows like a weed and can grow wild in and province in this country. Think of how much money our legal industry, alcohol companies, drug companies, politicians, criminals, and so on and on will lose when this becomes legal. not to mention the power that government can exercise. There are tens of billions of dollars all of these people will never be willing to give up.

[Armageddon]

[QUOTE BY= Monorprise]<br /> That’s the reason for the American 2nd amendment. A disarmed public can not hold a armed government accountable, that does not chooses to be held accountable.[/QUOTE]<br /> Yet, when the South joined together to form the Confederacy, being armed didn't help them much, did it?<br /> Today, it is made clear that an armed population is no match against nukes, jets, tanks, and machine guns.

[Brent Swain]

Gun control was simply an excuse to reduce civil liberites in Canada. It was the only excuse that people would accept for the massive violations of the charter that the gun registry entails.It was a a major part of the war on subsitence living that every major political party in Canada supports.<br /> When Cindy Parolin was trying to stop a cougar from killing her son, some dumbass total coward with a shotgun , fired it in the air to try to scare the cat away. The cat ignored him and killed Parolin. Even with #8 birdshot, a shotgun at point black range would have blown a hole int he cougar big enough to put your hand thru, and she and possibly her son woukld have survived.<br /> I once fired a couple of shots from 40 yards away under the ass of a Queen Charlotte black bear, which he more or less ignored , and kept on browsing.It was only when he saw me dragging a big buck down the beach by the antlers that he got the message and pannicked into the bush.<br /> It's now believed that black bears are more dangerous than grizzlies, as grizzlies are simply defending their territory whereas blacks consider you either a threat, or a food source. If you are not one then you must be the other.<br /> Brent

[Brent Swain]

I just read that the current cost of maintaining the gun registry is 100 million per year. At that price it will cost us another billion in ten years , probably more given inflation. It makes one wonder how many lives we could save if that money were spent on health care, transition houses, housing for the homeless, etc etc.<br /> I also read that if someone were charged with having an unregistered gun ,and claimed to have sent the paperwork in , it would be up to the government to prove ,beyond a reasonable doubt, that they hadn't lost the paperwork, a tough job given the thousands of applications they lost in computer crashes.<br /> I remember a time when ,to buy a gun and ammo, all one had to do was be over 16 and go to the nearest hardware store and buy whatever you wanted. The number of gun crimes then was a tiny fraction of what it is today. So what did we get for our two billion dollars?<br /> I remember , as a 16 year old, hitchiking all over Sakatchewan with a shotgun over my shoulder. Hunters would always pick me up and ask if I knew any good spots . Farmers considered the gun a farming implement. I never had any problem getting rides , even at night.<br /> Brent<br />

[Kish]

I would take issue with you on a couple of fronts. <br /> [QUOTE]I remember a time when ,to buy a gun and ammo, all one had to do was be over 16 and go to the nearest hardware store and buy whatever you wanted. The number of gun crimes then was a tiny fraction of what it is today. So what did we get for our two billion dollars?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I do not believe that the number of gun crimes is a tiny fraction of what it was. What is the source of your information. Certainly not consistent with information from the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics.<br /> <br /> I do not see how the existence of the gun registry would have any impact on the crime rate. Consider this. In most violent crime in Canada, the victim knows the assailant. Somebody who decides that he is going to kill his wife is not going to enumerate the pros and cons associated with what he will do. Rage will drive him to act.<br /> <br /> The impact of the gun registry, in this respect, has no more a deterrent effect than the existence of a police force. <br /> <br /> The impact of a gun registry is the ability to convict the killers. What is the price of convicting a murderer? Priceless.

[Marcarc]

THe above poster got it backwards, the quote says the amount of gun crime THEN was a fraction of what it is TODAY, reread the quote.<br /> <br /> The last part is an argument we've heard before, that when it comes to crime, no price is too much to pay. Many were saying if it convicts one murderer it will be worth it. That's specious arguing, clearly as a society it is not worth billions to convict one murderer, if that were true then there would be even MORE draconian laws on our civil liberties in order to convict people. We could have video cameras everywhere watching us all the time and damn the expense-so long as ONE murderer is caught through the activity.<br /> <br /> It's also garbage because of course as a society we accept just about ALL the preconditions that LEAD to murder. We KNOW that most women will be killed by a spouse/boyfriend, yet there is virtually NO expense put into womens shelters so they can get away from them. We know native women are far more likely to be murdered than other women, but we do NOTHING to make sure it 'doesn't happen again'. In fact, we know police out west have actually MURDERED natives yet they are treated far more leniently than other similar crimes. If a person had taken a child to a remote area to freeze to death, we'd be having capital punishment conversations.<br /> <br /> Clearly then, the 'price' is NOT a reason for the expense. And as noted in the gun registry thread, if you read the posted article, if the government had simply done it 'in house' rather than through Ross Perot's computer company-in other words through a 'public private partnership' then the expense would be far less and it would provide good government jobs, rather than all that money going to the states.<br /> <br /> I don't think that the registry has actually resulted in ANY murder arrests, if anybody heard of one, post it here. The only people it REALLY helps is police who will know if a homeowner owns a weapon when they go there. But as we learned in Alberta, they don't seem to have the brains to intelligently deal with these cases anyway.

[Kish]

[QUOTE]I don't think that the registry has actually resulted in ANY murder arrests, if anybody heard of one, post it here. The only people it REALLY helps is police who will know if a homeowner owns a weapon when they go there. But as we learned in Alberta, they don't seem to have the brains to intelligently deal with these cases anyway.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> This is all I could find in my 10 minute search (http://www.rcmp.ca/cfr/effectiveness_e.htm). Quoting from the report:<br /> <br /> The National Weapons Enforcement Support Team (NWEST) was involved in 3,100 reports in 2002. The following examples demonstrate NWEST's crucial role and effectiveness in helping police enforce the Firearms Act and in helping to increase public safety with respect to firearms in Canada.<br /> <br /> NWEST members assisted police in Western Canada in executing a public safety warrant when an individual made threats to a school principal and to several employees of local businesses. As the individual lived directly across from the school where the principal worked, there was concern that he would follow through with his threats. Police found a number of shotguns and rifles unsafely stored in a closet in the individual's home. The firearms were seized and NWEST members assisted police with having him prohibited from owning firearms. <br /> <br /> NWEST supported police in Western Canada when an individual involved in divorce proceedings became upset in a courtroom and later threatened to kill those involved in the proceedings including his spouse, her lawyer and the judge. NWEST investigation revealed that the suspect had recently received a firearm licence and had three handguns registered to him. Police investigation led to an arrest and seizure of the firearms. <br /> NWEST assisted police in Montreal following a domestic situation and a firearms seizure. NWEST attended and helped develop information that lead to an additional seizure of 21 handguns and 45,000 rounds of ammunition. Several criminal charges were laid and a firearms prohibition was sought. <br /> NWEST assisted a municipal police agency in Quebec with the preparation of search warrants from information developed on a firearms investigation. This resulted in 10 kilograms of C-4 explosives and 2 handguns being seized. Two individuals face several criminal charges. <br /> NWEST Quebec members aided in reviewing information from home invasions and firearms thefts from residences. NWEST provided assistance in the preparation of search warrants. During the operation, 58 members of an organized crime gang were arrested, more than 200 criminal charges were laid and more than 50% of the stolen firearms were found and seized. <br /> NWEST assisted police in Atlantic Canada when two firearms were seized during an investigation of possible child abuse. The suspect was licensed and had registered firearms. Two firearm charges were laid and a firearms prohibition was sought. <br /> Police in Atlantic Canada found a firearm in the wall of a residence that was believed to have been used in 1987 in an unsolved homicide. NWEST assisted in the examination of the firearm. <br /> In 2002, NWEST assisted police in Atlantic Canada when an individual threatened to bring a firearm to his place of work and start shooting. NWEST assisted in the preparation of nine warrants and confirmed that the suspect had nine registered firearms. These firearms were subsequently seized. <br />

[Marcarc]

As stated, it has NEVER been used to convict a murderer, it has been used, as civil liberties defenders claimed, to enforce a more police centred state. While many may love that idea, let's look at the cases more closely, sorry I couldn't get the quotes or bolds to work, first paragraph is a quote from the preceding post, the second is the analysis.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> .. when an individual made threats to a school principal and to several employees of local businesses. As the individual lived directly across from the school where the principal worked, there was concern that he would follow through with his threats. Police found a number of shotguns and rifles unsafely stored in a closet in the individual's home. The firearms were seized and NWEST members assisted police with having him prohibited from owning firearms.<br /> <br /> So here we see 'canada's finest' at work. The individual made death threats-which are illegal, and it was felt that because HE LIVED ACROSS THE STREET he may follow through. Gosh, don't I feel safe, I wonder what the protocal is, two blocks and your serious, three blocks and your probably too lazy to follow through. As soon as death threats are made people are arrested and homes searched for weapons, the gun registry doesn't enter into it.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> NWEST supported police in Western Canada when an individual involved in divorce proceedings became upset in a courtroom and later threatened to kill those involved in the proceedings including his spouse, her lawyer and the judge. NWEST investigation revealed that the suspect had recently received a firearm licence and had three handguns registered to him. Police investigation led to an arrest and seizure of the firearms.<br /> <br /> Again, death threats are LICENSE for search warrants, no gun registry is needed. <br /> <br /> <br /> NWEST assisted police in Montreal following a domestic situation and a firearms seizure. NWEST attended and helped develop information that lead to an additional seizure of 21 handguns and 45,000 rounds of ammunition. Several criminal charges were laid and a firearms prohibition was sought.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Does anybody really think a person with 21 handguns won't now have ILLEGAL firearms? Note that the police found guns, the registry helped them find MORE guns. In other words the cops were too incompetent to find them.<br /> <br /> <br /> NWEST assisted a municipal police agency in Quebec with the preparation of search warrants from information developed on a firearms investigation. This resulted in 10 kilograms of C-4 explosives and 2 handguns being seized. Two individuals face several criminal charges.<br /> <br /> <br /> There isn't enough details on this, so it's hard to comment, however, if you can't get a search warrant on a place you suspect of having c-4 then you aren't doing your job. I would guess that the handguns were registered (can they be registered?) so they got a search warrant. This sounds pretty questionable as I really don't see somebody who's going to keep C-4 as saying 'hey bob, we've got to get them revolvers registered, we're breaking the law"<br /> <br /> <br /> NWEST Quebec members aided in reviewing information from home invasions and firearms thefts from residences. NWEST provided assistance in the preparation of search warrants. During the operation, 58 members of an organized crime gang were arrested, more than 200 criminal charges were laid and more than 50% of the stolen firearms were found and seized.<br /> <br /> <br /> Again, not enough info, however, the only way this helped was that the guns the 'crime gang' had were traced to their sources. The police obviously didn't 'raid' the place based on gun registry information, unless an undercover cop worked his way in and secretly wrote down the gun numbers (yeah right). In other words, this just added more charges, and not big charges, onto already existing charges and didn't actually help with the case.<br /> <br /> <br /> NWEST assisted police in Atlantic Canada when two firearms were seized during an investigation of possible child abuse. The suspect was licensed and had registered firearms. Two firearm charges were laid and a firearms prohibition was sought.<br /> <br /> <br /> Does anybody think that child abuse comes from gun ownership? Note that it is 'suspected' child abuse, and parental homicide is VERY rare in canada. Meaning that the real issue here is child abuse. In a child abuse case one would think premises would be checked.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Police in Atlantic Canada found a firearm in the wall of a residence that was believed to have been used in 1987 in an unsolved homicide. NWEST assisted in the examination of the firearm.<br /> <br /> There's not enough info here, but the info doesn't maintain that anything actually came from it. No doubt they are touting it up to make it sound more effective than it is.<br /> <br /> In 2002, NWEST assisted police in Atlantic Canada when an individual threatened to bring a firearm to his place of work and start shooting. NWEST assisted in the preparation of nine warrants and confirmed that the suspect had nine registered firearms. These firearms were subsequently seized.<br /> <br /> Again, when somebody threatens to come in and shoot a place up, it is only cop incompetance that has them not finding a firearm-and serious social and psychological help!<br /> <br /> <br /> Is this worth 'billions', hardly. Imagine how much aid and police this money would have provided.

[Brent Swain]

If you wan to shoot, join the military? With a mad grizzly or polar bear chewing on your leg, not shooting is not an option nor amatter of choice.That comment shows how abysmally ignorant urban peopple can be about the realities of life oputside their geographically tiny urban bubbles. Living and travelling in large areas of Canada safely, without a gun is not a safe option. Having gun ownership conditional on the consent of bureaucrats ,makes safe access to these areas conditional on the consent of bureaucrats, and thus clearly violates section 6 mobility rights in the of rights as well as the right to life liberty and security of the person.<br /> Brent

[Zeeboo]

remember only slaves are not allowed to own guns... makes you wonder what our government officials are thinking... remember less than 100 people died in toronto as a result of gang violence with guns and at the same time almost 4000 people will have killed themselves (in a 1 year period)... which should be a bigger issue?

[Brent Swain]

Interesting that Stephen Harper, the one reformatory who voted for the gun registry, has not yet promised to abolish it if elected, or hasn't anyone noticed.<br /> Perhaps it's time for reformatories to pressure him to make a clear public statement on the issue , or the rest of us should during the current campaign.<br /> Brent

[Brent Swain]

Martin just promised to ban already baned handguns, embarrassing himself and his own party. The public laughed out loud.He is now asking the provinces to embarass themselves and their poarty by going aslong with such foolishnesss.<br /> It's a good time to contact your MLA and encourage him not to make such a fool of himself.<br /> Since Britain banned handguns, handgun crime has increased exponentially as has been the case in other countries that have tried it.<br /> This proves conclusively that registration is simply the first step toward expropriation.<br /> Supporters of gun registry should educate themselves with a little camping expedition to Churchill. Just pitch your pup tent a few miles out of town and camp there unarmed for a week or two, then try to figure out why Canadians in some areas need guns.You'll probably have a bit of help from the furry locals.<br /> Brent<br /> Brent