[Brent Swain]

When you could walk into any hardware store and buy a gun, it wasn't a wild west show. Teenagers didn't do target practise in theschoolyard. That was illegal.There were plenty of laws which were followed before the registry.All the had to do was enforce them.They will still nbe there after the registry is scrapped.Senator Gerry St Germain ,a former cop from Vancouver's notorious east Aastings area said that the regstry is a complete waste of resources and voted agaist it. He said the relying on the info in any registry is an easy and sure way for a cop to die quickly.Criminals simply don't register their guns. Keep re-reading this statement until it sinks in.Your portrayal of a wild west show is an act of bullshit deperation which clealy shows the falacies and weakness of your arguement. People calling for the scraping of the registry are also calling for stricter enforcement of other gun laws.<br /> Brent

[badsector]

[QUOTE]We've got 10 pages proving everything you have claimed is not supported by facts[/QUOTE]<br /> Actually I was the one who quoted actual facts about gun crimes in different countries. You decided just to ignore it cause it killed your argument cold. Get a grip man. Take a deep breath. Inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale... OK, just keep doing that.<br /> <br /> As I already said, the numbers won't lie. Stats can has all the info you need. We will check the crime rate in one year, OK? That will settle this argument.

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= badsector]We will check the crime rate in one year, OK? That will settle this argument.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Why bother? In a year you'll still blame the gun for the violence.<br />

[badsector]

After all, Google is free...<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.iansa.org/regions/namerica/victims_defend_gun_control.htm">Victims of gun violence pledge to continue to defend Canada's gun control law</a><br /> "the Canadian Public Health Association and others have argued that the progressive tightening of gun laws in Canada has contributed to reducing gun death and injury. In 1991, when I began this journey, there were 1,444 gun deaths and in 2001 there were 842. Firearm robberies have declined dramatically over the decade by 64% since 1991, from 8,995 to 3,474. Domestic homicides with firearms have fallen according to the latest report on intimate partner homicide from Statistics Canada. The police are using the system 1,500 times each day and have reported case after case where the system allowed them to remove guns from people who were a risk."<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/December2005/02/c2608.html">NRA Assisting Canadian Gun Lobby with Election </a><br /> "MONTREAL, Dec. 2 /CNW Telbec/ - Buoyed by recent successes in the<br /> US Congress and Brazil, America's powerful gun lobby - the National Rifle<br /> Association - is turning its sights to Canada. At a session in Toronto,<br /> December 3 session, organized by the Canadian Shooting Sports Federation, the<br /> NRA will conduct training sessions for the Canadian Gun lobby. The website<br /> notes: "We have a Federal election looming on the horizon and we must be<br /> prepared.... How do we protect our rights? By being more politically active<br /> and effective at the grass roots. And who better to show us how than the most<br /> powerful lobby group in the world, the National Rifle Association."<br /> (http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/2005_agm.html)"<br /> <br /> "Most Canadians know that the NRA's arguments are nonsensical" said<br /> Cukier "What we have most to learn from the US experience with guns is what to<br /> avoid. The notion that more guns will make us safer flies in the face of the<br /> evidence. If arming for self protection worked, the US would be the safest<br /> country in the world. Clearly it's not - in 2003 the US had 11,700 gun murders<br /> (4.0 per 100,000), we had 161 (0.51 per 100,000) even though rates of homicide<br /> without guns are comparable. We are concerned about 50 gun murders this year<br /> in Toronto while Chicago, a city of comparable size had over 400."<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.lufa.ca/news/news_item.asp?NewsID=5474">Canadian gun lobby enlists NRA's help</a><br /> "Glen Caroline, director of the NRA's grassroots division, was to give a<br /> seminar yesterday in Toronto at the general meeting of the Canadian<br /> Shooting Sports Association. The association invited the NRA<br /> representative to tap into the 135-year-old organization's expertise "on<br /> grassroots lobbying," said spokesman Larry Whitmore."<br /> <br /> <b>You don't like facts Caleb yet they are out there for anyone who cares to read them.</b>

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= badsector]<br /> <b>You don't like facts Caleb yet they are out there for anyone who cares to read them.</b>[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Show me one instance out there where a gun killed a person.<br />

[badsector]

Dear Dr. Caleb... I sincerely believe that you can do better than this.

[Marcarc]

The reality is that ALL crime, except those with youth have declined in the last ten years. Do you honestly think that if gangs in toronto have no trouble getting handguns that criminals will have trouble?

[badsector]

Marcarc, I am not that naive, however please look at the stats I quoted earlier.<br /> <br /> "In 1991 ...there were 1,444 gun deaths and in 2001 there were 842. Firearm robberies have declined dramatically over the decade by 64% since 1991, from 8,995 to 3,474. Domestic homicides with firearms have fallen according to the latest report on intimate partner homicide from Statistics Canada."<br /> <br /> "If arming for self protection worked, the US would be the safest <br /> country in the world. Clearly it's not - in 2003 the US had 11,700 gun murders <br /> (4.0 per 100,000), we had 161 (0.51 per 100,000) even though rates of homicide <br /> without guns are comparable. We are concerned about 50 gun murders this year <br /> in Toronto while Chicago, a city of comparable size had over 400."<br /> <br /> Numbers speak clearer than words.<br /> <br />

[Brent Swain]

What are the stats for Switzerland or Finland which have a higher per capita gun ownership than the US? These are a clear indication that cultural attitudes and the gap between rich and poor are the problem rather than the number of guns.USanians wetre raised on rambo and John Wayne , with the message that confrontation rather than diplomacy were the proper way to resolve disputes.In Canada the opposite is the case , currenly being deliberately changed by US media to yankify us.<br /> Brent

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= badsector] Dear Dr. Caleb... I sincerely believe that you can do better than this.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Of course, we've already been through it all. It boils down to, you don't like me having guns, and fail to see that your solutions to the problem of gun violence will not be found in confiscation.<br />

[badsector]

[QUOTE]Of course, we've already been through it all. It boils down to, you don't like me having guns, and fail to see that your solutions to the problem of gun violence will not be found in confiscation.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> What confiscation? Show me one (ONE as in 1) document that says the Liberals want all guns confiscated. Just one Caleb.<br /> <br /> The stats indicate that since gun control and registry were implemented, roughly 400 lives per year are seved and gun robberies are down over 60%. Please explain to me what you have against saving lives and reducing crime. I am listening.<br /> <br />

[Brent Swain]

Allan Rock, author of the gun registry legislation, and the guy who told me that drug company profits take priority over date rape victims, said that his ultimate goal was to have only police and military allowed to have guns in Canada. The proposed total ban on handguns was a proposed confiscation of guns from those who legally registered them.Several guns which were not illegal at the time the registry came into effect have since been ruled illegal by unelected bureaucrats making unilateral decisions.This type of ruling will eventually lead to all guns being ruled illegal over time, a few at a time.<br /> You said , in one of your earlier postings , that gun crime has increased drastically since the registry came into effect. Now you say the opposite. You are developing a serious credibility problem with your contradictions, just like any excuses for the registry.<br /> I've seen statistics that home invasions and gun crimes have increased drastically in England, Australia and Canada since gun control was stepped up.I never heard of home invasions while occupants were home before gun control. Now it is common place, as criminals can rely on gun control to make sure that only criminals have guns.<br /> Italy has just passed a law enabling people to defend their own homes. In Britain they are told to go hide in the bathroom and call the police and wait for them to arrive ,if any one breaks in. In which country would criminals feel less threatened doing a B&E?A couple of Winnipeg women called the police when they were being threatened by one's ex. The police took hours to arrive finding both women had been murdered.Thus is typical. Enough was spent on the gun registry to hire an extra 200,000 full time RCMP officers . How nmany lives would that save?<br /> I think you are quoting doctored statistics supplied by people with a financial self interest in spouting such disinformation.<br /> Brent

[Diogenes]

What confiscation? Show me one (ONE as in 1) document that says the Liberals want all guns confiscated. Just one Caleb.<br /> <br /> The stats indicate that since gun control and registry were implemented, roughly 400 lives per year are seved and gun robberies are down over 60%. Please explain to me what you have against saving lives and reducing crime. I am listening.<br /> <br /> <br /> does this quaulify?<br /> Dio<br /> <br /> http://www.mikenew.com/pub7277.html

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= Diogenes] What confiscation? Show me one (ONE as in 1) document that says the Liberals want all guns confiscated. Just one Caleb.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <a href='http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/breitkreuzgpress/Guncontrol25.htm'>Link</a><br /> or:<br /> <a href='http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=474cb9aa-3439-4e75-9c78-71a181262cf2&k=72862'>Link2</a><br /> [Quote National Post]<br /> Liberals to ban handguns<br /> <br /> The Liberals say the thinking behind this crime strategy is that if no one is allowed to have a handgun in Canada, policing authorities will be in a better position to act on anyone who has a handgun or attempts to transport or sell a handgun.<br /> [/quote]<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Diogenes]<br /> The stats indicate that since gun control and registry were implemented, roughly 400 lives per year are seved and gun robberies are down over 60%. Please explain to me what you have against saving lives and reducing crime. I am listening.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Show me where legal owners of firearms commit gun robberies: ______________________<br /> <br /> The gun registry does not save lives. It does not reduce crime. As shown in previous links, it is a vector *for* crime. Explain to me how confiscating guns will reduce crime, bearing in mind the previous links to statistics that show countries that confiscated guns (UK, Austrailia) have shown a marked increase in gun crime. Also, show me the advantages of the 'new' gun registry had over the one we've had since 1932.<br /> <br /> From the link above: # C-68 HAS ALREADY COST AT LEAST ONE LIFE: The Liberals defend their soon-to-be billion dollar boondoggle by saying, "If the gun registry saved just one life, it would be worth it." In March, a man in Nain, Newfoundland who was prohibited from owning firearms went to the RCMP, picked up his rifle that they had been storing for him, and killed a 15-year-old boy. <br /> <br /> And then, we have: http://alphecca.com/mt_alphecca_archives/002073.html<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Diogenes]<br /> does this quaulify?<br /> Dio<br /> http://www.mikenew.com/pub7277.html[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Qualify as what? Not related to anything we're discussing? Yes.<br />

[badsector]

[QUOTE]You said , in one of your earlier postings , that gun crime has increased drastically since the registry came into effect. Now you say the opposite. You are developing a serious credibility problem with your contradictions, just like any excuses for the registry.[/QUOTE]<br /> I never said gun crime increased since registry came into effect. I always said the opposite. It helps if you read what others say.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]does this quaulify?<br /> Dio<br /> <br /> DEPARTMENT OF STATE PUBLICATION 7277<br /> Disarmament Series 5<br /> Released September 1961[/QUOTE]<br /> A private opinion website from circa 1961? Not really.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Caleb<br /> Liberals to ban handguns[/QUOTE]<br /> Good idea too. Yet, noone proposed to ban long guns, people were just asked to register them, so if a stolen weapon is used in crime, at least the recorded history of the weapon can give the police some clues.<br /> <br /> The police use the gun registry thousands of times every day. If there is a domestic disturbance and the cops are called, they use the registry to cehck if there is a registered weapon on the premises, which on most cases can help them with their approach. Obviously, if there is an angry guy beating up his wife and police knows he has a gun for sure, they will approach with extra caution.<br /> <br /> Since the introduction of the gun regsitry roughly 600 lives per year are saved and gun robberies decreased by over 60%. To me that's a good enough reason to support gun control. Roughly 80% of Canadians agree.<br /> <br /> <b>FACTS ARE FACTS ARE FACTS:</b><br /> The most gun happy country in the developed World, the United States, has skyrocketing murder rates, especially murders comitted by firearms. It's a fact gun crazy brainwashed rednecks conveniently ignore. When the US will have lower gun crime than Canada, I will accept that their approach to crime is better. For now, Canada is magnitudes safer, so I'll go with the Canadian way.<br /> Facts, you know.... facts....<br />