[michou]

[QUOTE BY= MadeInCanada]Une chose est sure, le ROC peut toujour compter sur l'auto-destruction du PQ quand la vague nationaliste atteint son sommet. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Le PQ a du prendre des leçons du Parti Libéral, fédéral comme provincial. <br /> Tu sais tout comme moi que le PQ s'avance tout droit vers des résultats gagnants lors de la prochaine élection. Ni Charest, ni son parti n'auront réussi à gouverner le Québec de façon juste et transparente.

[MadeInCanada]

C'est vrai, la xenophobie Quebecoise ne marche plus. Je n'ai rien qu'a placer Yves Michaud devant un micro pour 5 minutes pour demontrer que tu as tort.<br /> <br /> Parizeau: "Le vote ethnique"<br /> <br /> Bouchard: "Les femmes blanches devraient faire plus de bebes."<br /> <br /> Landry: "Le chiffon rouge"<br /> <br /> J'ai eu la malchance d'assister au congres du PQ cette annee a Montreal. Je pense que j'ai vu a peu pres 7 personnes ethnis toute la fin de semaine et 5 de ces personnes se sont rendus sur le stage pour les photo-ops. C'est sur que le PQ essaye de moderniser son image, mais c'est apparent que l'etablissement dans ce parti sera toujours controller par les purelaines.<br /> <br /> Si tu veux parler de gaspillage d'argent et de commandite, ca fait depuis leur perte en 1995 que le PQ fait de son mieux pour afficher le drapeau du Quebec partout. Vous n'avez pas vu la pancarte enorme a La Ronde qui est visible du pont Jacques-Cartier?<br /> <br /> Pourtant, on ne verra jamais un souverainiste se lever et hurler que le PQ utilisait l'argent des contribuables pour acheter des federalistes. <br /> <br /> De toute facon, le 330 millions demeure inferieure au 500 millions a perdu en 1995.

[cmab]

Le PQ avec un chef nouveau, c'est pas du renouveau, on voit bien que la saison des idées chez le PQ n'a rien donné à part la démission de Laundry.<br /> <br /> Si André Boisclair est au pouvoir et qu'il foire, on pourra dire qu'il a bien enculer les Québecois hahahahahah.<br /> <br /> Un vrai vote pour la souvraneté = 75% + 1<br /> 50% + 1 = C'est rien, on batit pas un pays ou que presque la majorité est contre.<br /> <br /> L'Arménie c'est créer avec 99% des voix<br /> etc.. beaucoup de pays se sont créer avec 75% de voix et plus.

[fleur-de-lys]

[QUOTE]Un vrai vote pour la souvraneté = 75% + 1<br /> 50% + 1 = C'est rien, on batit pas un pays ou que presque la majorité est contre.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Ça confirme ce que Michou disait, vous avez peur de perdre. Sachez que 50%+1 c'est la majorité dans une démocratie et que selon l'ONU tout les peuples ont droit à l'autodétermination si la majorité le désire. Les Québécois francophones sont déjà en majorité pour l'indépendance, avec 69% pour le oui en 95. <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]on batit pas un pays ou que presque la majorité est contre.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Les État-Unis l'ont fait, même que je doute fort que la majorité étaient pour l'indépendance au début.<br /> <br /> On n'enferme pas la majorité d'un peuple dans un pays qu'ils ne veulent pas non plus. Pourtant ça aussi ça se fait. <br />

[Dino]

[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] [QUOTE]Un vrai vote pour la souvraneté = 75% + 1<br /> 50% + 1 = C'est rien, on batit pas un pays ou que presque la majorité est contre.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Ça confirme ce que Michou disait, vous avez peur de perdre. Sachez que 50%+1 c'est la majorité dans une démocratie et que selon l'ONU tout les peuples ont droit à l'autodétermination si la majorité le désire. Les Québécois francophones sont déjà en majorité pour l'indépendance, avec 69% pour le oui en 95. <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]on batit pas un pays ou que presque la majorité est contre.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Les État-Unis l'ont fait, même que je doute fort que la majorité étaient pour l'indépendance au début.<br /> <br /> On n'enferme pas la majorité d'un peuple dans un pays qu'ils ne veulent pas non plus. Pourtant ça aussi ça se fait. <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Fleur de lys you are wrong. 59% of francophones supported sovereignty association in 1995 not 69%. Why would we (federalists) be scared of losing? If I was to ask a seperatist what currency you would use in an independent Quebec none would be able to answer. How are you going to be a country if you don't have your own money? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'>

[fleur-de-lys]

[QUOTE] 59% of francophones supported sovereignty association in 1995 not 69%[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Sorry, 69% voted YES on the Montreal Island and 61% of the francophones voted YES. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<br /> If I was to ask a seperatist what currency you would use in an independent Quebec none would be able to answer. <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I've already answered to that question, I think it was somewhere in "Le Quebec libre" post.

[Dino]

[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]<br /> If I was to ask a seperatist what currency you would use in an independent Quebec none would be able to answer. <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I've already answered to that question, I think it was somewhere in "Le Quebec libre" post.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> And what was your answer?

[fleur-de-lys]

[QUOTE by=fleur-de-lys]About the currency, many solutions are considered. There is 3 possible issues you can find it there http://www.vigile.net/3e/Qmonnaie/pichermonnaie.html<br /> <br /> - Quebec keeps the canadian money<br /> <br /> - Quebec print his own money but one Quebec dollar or piastre = 1 Canadian $.<br /> <br /> - Quebec have a central bank with a unique rate.<br /> <br /> Adopting the Euro could also be interesting.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> Voila <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'>

[cmab]

Adopting the EURO!!! That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard, like seriously. Is Quebec part of Europe? part of the EEC? The awnser is No! Why not join the african union instad?

[Dino]

[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] [QUOTE by=fleur-de-lys]About the currency, many solutions are considered. There is 3 possible issues you can find it there http://www.vigile.net/3e/Qmonnaie/pichermonnaie.html<br /> <br /> - Quebec keeps the canadian money<br /> <br /> - Quebec print his own money but one Quebec dollar or piastre = 1 Canadian $.<br /> <br /> - Quebec have a central bank with a unique rate.<br /> <br /> Adopting the Euro could also be interesting.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> Voila <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'>[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Adopting the euro would never happen. Because if Quebecers were to justify that they have european ancestry so they should be able to use it, then Brazil will say they have portugese origin so they want to use it to. Then argentina will say they have spanish ancestry so they want to use the euro too. Australia will say the same thing that they have British ancestry. <br /> The european union would never bend there rules to please 3.5 million separatists. <br /> <br /> You would never be able to keep the Canadian currency. Do you really think federalists across this country are that stupid? That they will allow 3.5 million people to break apart a country against the other 28.5 million people and think that federalists are going to except an "independent Quebec" using Canadian money? <br /> <br /> If the federal government had any brains they would tell the PQ that they can't call a referendum till they figure out what money an independent Quebec will use. Then for once many Quebecers would realise that the issue of separation is such a waste of time.<br /> <br /> Quebec currency would equal the mexican peso.

[fleur-de-lys]

Cmab, Europe and the European Union are two different things. For example Switzerland is in Europe but not in the European Union. Why couldn't we be in European Union without being in Europe ? It's just a trade union after all. If the European Union don't want us only because of our geographic situation, just too bad, we will find another solution.<br /> <br /> Dino, Quebec could print it own money without any fee with the second solution. The Canadian money is printed in Ottawa, in Hull and in Winnipeg. The Hull factory is amply sufficient to print Quebec piastres paper money and coins, 1 Quebec piastre could = 1 USD, 1 Euro or 1 Canadian dollar. We don't even need the authorization of the central bank of the United States, Europe or Canada to do it. Many new countries did it before having a central bank, many small countries do it ( especially caribbean islands ).<br />

[Dino]

[QUOTE BY= fleur-de-lys] Cmab, Europe and the European Union are two different things. For example Switzerland is in Europe but not in the European Union. Why couldn't we be in European Union without being in Europe ? It's just a trade union after all. If the European Union don't want us only because of our geographic situation, just too bad, we will find another solution.<br /> <br /> Dino, Quebec could print it own money without any fee with the second solution. The Canadian money is printed in Ottawa, in Hull and in Winnipeg. The Hull factory is amply sufficient to print Quebec piastres paper money and coins, 1 Quebec piastre could = 1 USD, 1 Euro or 1 Canadian dollar. We don't even need the authorization of the central bank of the United States, Europe or Canada to do it. Many new countries did it before having a central bank, many small countries do it ( especially caribbean islands ).<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Switzerland is in the european union they just don't use the euro as a currency.<br /> <br /> And for Quebec making it's own money.....here's an article that was printed in the toronto star...<br /> <br /> May 9, 2005. 01:00 AM<br /> >ADVERTISEMENT Editorial: The PQ fantasy world<br /> <br /> <br /> Think of it as Monopoly, Quebec-separatist style. You get to bust up Canada,<br /> collect $200 for passing Go and hit a $13 billion Free Parking jackpot, all with<br /> just one quick roll of the dice. You can't lose.<br /> <br /> That's the gist of the latest Parti Québécois financial study purporting to<br /> "prove" that separatism is a winning strategy, rather than a foolish leap in the<br /> dark.<br /> <br /> PQ leader Bernard Landry claims "a sovereign Quebec would be in a much better<br /> situation," just as former PQ leader Jacques Parizeau argued "federalism is<br /> costing us a fortune" during the 1995 referendum.<br /> <br /> Today, Landry claims Quebec stands to chalk up an impressive $13.8 billion<br /> surplus over five years, instead of running a deficit, just by going its own<br /> way.<br /> <br /> Of course, Landry gets that number by adopting the rosiest possible scenario<br /> after a breakup.<br /> <br /> Quebecers would recapture $41 billion in taxes they now pay to the federal<br /> government, though they would lose $9.6 billion in transfers.<br /> <br /> Even so, Quebec would be able to deliver the full range of critical federal<br /> services, such as employment insurance, old age security, health, aid to<br /> industry, defence, foreign affairs and customs.<br /> <br /> But Ottawa would have to agree, bien sûr, to let Quebec assume less of Canada's<br /> $500 billion national debt than its population warrants. Quebecers make up 23<br /> per cent of the population; the PQ proposes to assume 18 per cent of the debt,<br /> reducing its carrying cost.<br /> <br /> And of course the PQ assumes Quebec's currency and growth rate would remain<br /> stable. There would be no financial shock accompanying the breakup of one of the<br /> world's bigger economies. Creditors would not demand Quebec pay a hefty premium<br /> on its debt, even though it would be one of the most heavily burdened nations on<br /> earth. And there would be no capital flight or job losses.<br /> <br /> This is what the French call "dreaming in colour." It's a fantasy.<br /> <br /> A less rosy scenario was painted by economist Marcel Côté, a former adviser to<br /> Brian Mulroney and Robert Bourassa, during the 1995 debate.<br /> <br /> In a book-length economic study titled "If Quebec goes ..." that richly deserves<br /> to be updated to take current conditions into account, Côté predicted Quebec at<br /> the time stood to inherit a crippling $200 billion debt, unmanageable deficits<br /> and a devalued currency.<br /> <br /> Quebec would have had to increase taxes and cut services, plunging the economy<br /> into a recession. More than 200,000 jobs might have been lost. Capital would<br /> have fled. The economy might have collapsed.<br /> <br /> Canada would have suffered, too, facing recession, high interest rates, federal<br /> service cuts and high joblessness. Quebec's trade with other provinces would<br /> have taken a hit, further impoverishing the new state.<br /> <br /> Ultimately, Quebecers themselves will have to decide which of these scenarios is<br /> the more likely.<br /> <br /> But the PQ claim that breaking up Canada would be a painless process defies<br /> belief. There would be steep costs. They would be borne by all Canadians,<br /> Quebecers included.<br /> <br /> Anyone who pretends otherwise, is dreaming in colour

[Brother Jonathan]

<b>dino</b>,<br /> <br /> an independent Québec could use any existing currency it liked as its legal tender — for example, note that both Panamá and Ecuador use the US dollar as their respective legal tender. The drawback to choosing such a course is that Québec wouldn’t be guaranteed a voice in the other government’s monetary policy.<br /> <br /> Also, fleur-de-lys is correct: Switzerland is not a member of the EU. However, it is a member of the EFTA, which is what you might have been thinking of.<br /> <br /> <br /> <b>fleur-de-lys</b>,<br /> <br /> there is an article in the Maastricht treaty that limits EU membership to geographically European nations, though that might have been stretched a bit for Cyprus. I don’t know if EFTA has an analogous limitation.<br />

[Dino]

[QUOTE BY= Brother Jonathan] <b>dino</b>,<br /> <br /> an independent Québec could use any existing currency it liked as its legal tender — for example, note that both Panamá and Ecuador use the US dollar as their respective legal tender. The drawback to choosing such a course is that Québec wouldn’t be guaranteed a voice in the other government’s monetary policy.<br /> <br /> Also, fleur-de-lys is correct: Switzerland is not a member of the EU. However, it is a member of the EFTA, which is what you might have been thinking of.<br /> <br /> <br /> <b>fleur-de-lys</b>,<br /> <br /> there is an article in the Maastricht treaty that limits EU membership to geographically European nations, though that might have been stretched a bit for Cyprus. I don’t know if EFTA has an analogous limitation.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Do you actually believe the Canadian goverment would allow Quebec to use the currency!! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> <br /> <br /> Of course not. Quebecers could use the american currency if the united states allowed them to use it. I would love to see the PQ campaigning to Quebecers that they would be better of having the money controlled by a country as capitalistic as the united states the Canada.<br /> <br /> <br /> I think I was thinking about sweden when I was saying that sweden is in the european union but they don't have the euro because they think it's a threat to their sovereignty.

[michou]

[QUOTE BY= dino] <br /> Do you actually believe the Canadian goverment would allow Quebec to use the currency!! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> What is truly amazing dino is that you would keep on believing that Canada wouldn't allow it. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= dino] Of course not. Quebecers could use the american currency if the united states allowed them to use it. <br /> I would love to see the PQ campaigning to Quebecers that they would be better of having the money controlled by a country as capitalistic as the united states the Canada.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> Ever heard of deeeeeeep integration dino ? In more or less twenty years time, independent Québec or not, all Canadians and Québécers will be carrying American money anyway. <br /> While you are arguing about what Québec and Canada should fight over, your very own are selling your country bound hand and foot to the U.S. <br /> <br /> Realistically, an independent Québec will probably not escape integration with the U.S. or like Canada, it will become another satellite nation to the empire but with an exception, because we have one to speak of, Québec's cultural life and soul will survive.