[samuel]

[QUOTE BY= gaulois] I would hate to put it that way but often Québec is more americanized than the ROC!!! It rubs me the wrong way when you depict Québécois as all holier than the pope in regards to resisting american influence, consumerism, etc... That is delusional.<br /> <br /> Why not readily admit that Canada and Quebec share many sovereignty issues and resisting the american influence and globalisation is the most vital one. This statement was not intended whatsoever in downplaying legitimate claims of Quebec to its own sovereignty.[/QUOTE]<br /> Again, like the superiority complex you like to project on Quebecers, that statement is false. In fact, contrary to statements of denial such as the one by empson7, Quebecers acknowledge the corosive cultural influence from its surroundings. The difference is that from this end of the spectrum, it comes from Canada as well as the USA. When Québec takes measures to try and counter this influence, such as our language laws, Canadians obsessively attack it. Curiously though, Americans come to Québec and enjoy the cultural différence.

[gaulois]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] Again, like the superiority complex you like to project on Quebecers, that statement is false. In fact, contrary to statements of denial such as the one by empson7, Quebecers acknowledge the corosive cultural influence from its surroundings. The difference is that from this end of the spectrum, it comes from Canada as well as the USA. When Québec takes measures to try and counter this influence, such as our language laws, Canadians obsessively attack it. Curiously though, Americans come to Québec and enjoy the cultural différence.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Encore une fois tu généralises: "Quebecers acknowledge the corosive cultural influence from its surroundings."<br /> Est-ce vraiment le cas? <br /> <br /> Et les lois linguistiques: "Canadians obsessively attack it". Pas d'accord du tout!!! Oui pour certains Canadiens. La plupart s'en fout complètement. Beaucoup plus de canadiens sont d'accord que tu ne le crois. Informes-toi ailleurs que dans les médias de propagande de Québec bashing. J'ai moi-même défendu les lois linguistiques du Québec à maintes occassions et je n'ai pas observé plus de comportement obsessif parmi les anglos que parmi les francos sur ce sujet.<br /> <br />

[Brother Jonathan]

Samuel,<br /> <br /> my comprehension of French is nowhere near excellent; I relied heavily on an excellent French/English dictionary for dozens of words/meanings in the article that were unfamiliar to me. (When I first read <i>gratin fédéraliste</i>, I thought <i>Federalist cheese?</i> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'>)<br /> <br /> I don’t always offer opinions because I often feel that I lack sufficient context on an issue. Take this thread, for example: I’d never heard of Jacques Attali before, so I didn’t know how authoritatively or derisively his opinions on Canada would be taken by Canadians (or Quebeckers in particular). I also don’t know what kind of reputation <i>La Presse</i> has, so I don’t know whether the newspaper itself is playing the <i>provocateur</i> or not by choosing to report on M. Attali’s views.<br /> <br /> (One of my favourite quotes from the Bible is <i>L’insensé même, quand il se tait, passe pour sage; Celui qui ferme ses lèvres est un homme intelligent.</i> I need all the help that I can get.)<br /> <br /> My general view of Canadian politics regarding Québec issues is that there still isn’t enough cross-cultural understanding to start meaningfully resolving the issues. For example, there was <a href="http://www.vivelecanada.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=6&showtopic=9179&show=10&page=28">one thread here at Vive last year</a> that had far too much heat generated and not nearly enough light shed because of different conceptions of what the word <i>nation</i> meant. That it took a foreigner to point that out to both sides doesn’t bode well for an unmediated, truly open exchange of views.<br /> <br /> On Canadian immigration policies, I haven’t seen my particular viewpoint offered here by a Canadian, so that suggests to me that my view could well have inherent American biases: I see the primary long-term reason for the current level of Canadian immigration as being a long-term weaning from dependence on the US economy. It can certainly be difficult for a country of 32 millions to compete against a country of 296 millions; economies of scale likely force many Canadian companies to compete in the US marketplace, since otherwise US companies could have a pricing advantage when selling in Canada. If Canada increases in population faster than the US does, then Canada’s dependence on the US market (and thus its necessity to scale up to survive) would shrink proportionally. I’ve read a few theories here on the short-term plusses and minuses of Canadian immigration, but I haven’t devoted time to thinking them through; unlike most people here, whatever policy is adopted will be highly unlikely to affect me one way or the other (unless my wife convinces me to attempt becoming a landed immigrant, of course <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'>).

[Brent Swain]

In Canada dilomacy is considered a strength. In the uS it's considered a weakness. In the US confontation and six gun solutions are considered heroic. In Canada they are considered abysmal failure of diplomacy. In the US , wave a flag and they all salute. In Canada they yawn. In the US an elected official is called a "Favored Son." In Canada we tell them what they are sons of.<br /> In the US the induividual takes priority over the common good, even if it means undermining the common good. In Canada the common good is given priority.Thus, in Canada , health care is based on common good ,whereas in the US the right of corporations to make money off health care is given priority over the common good.<br /> In Canada we ask "What can I do for this person." In the US they often ask " Is he invading my space? Should I shoot him or sue him"?<br /> I'm Canadian and ,no ,I'm not sorry.

[samuel]

[QUOTE BY= Brent Swain] In Canada dilomacy is considered a strength. In the uS it's considered a weakness. In the US confontation and six gun solutions are considered heroic. In Canada they are considered abysmal failure of diplomacy. In the US , wave a flag and they all salute. In Canada they yawn. In the US an elected official is called a "Favored Son." In Canada we tell them what they are sons of.<br /> In the US the induividual takes priority over the common good, even if it means undermining the common good. In Canada the common good is given priority.Thus, in Canada , health care is based on common good ,whereas in the US the right of corporations to make money off health care is given priority over the common good.<br /> In Canada we ask "What can I do for this person." In the US they often ask " Is he invading my space? Should I shoot him or sue him"?<br /> I'm Canadian and ,no ,I'm not sorry.[/QUOTE]<br /> In Canada there are more pseudo authorities on life in the US than authorities on Canada.

[Dino]

I just want to say that the person who said that without Quebec Canada is basically like the united states is actually speaking the truth. I've been to America and believe we CAnadians are different from Americans but culturally and economically WE ARE ESSENTIALLY like america. <br /> <br /> Canada has been completely taken over by the united states with the complete help of the Liberal Party of Canada. I remember being younger (i'm 21) and we actually had Canadian stores now it's all American.<br /> <br /> No self respecting country would allow another country to take us over but when you have the elite who control Canada and couldn't give a shit what happens to this country and while you have Liberals voting for the Liberals because they are the "best" for Canada and you have the conservatives who could care less about Canadian sovereignty and the Bloc voters who are convinced the very threat to Quebec is english Canada not America it's quite hopeless in thinking we will one day get out off all these free trade agreements that have compeltly distroyed Canada.

[Dino]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] <br /> Yes I do lump a majority of Canadians as despicable vultures, who else undermines and cheers the demise of their own countrymen?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Ummm Samuel could provide me with at least three examples of Canadians celebrating at the fact something has gone against Quebec?<img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/evil.gif' alt='Evil'> <br /> <br /> Because if you can't you might need to start learning to stop creating ideas of what english Canadians are and what they think of Quebecers.

[Brent Swain]

Canadians are Americans, North Americans. We are as American as any Costa Rican, Mexican, Guatamalan,Nicaraguan, etc etc.<br /> America is not a country. It is two continents containing 22 countries.<br /> To refer to the yanks as if they were the only ones in two continents who count is to support the Monroe doctrine.<br /> When I pointed out to Jack Layton that there was a huge number of Canadians who consider national sovereigny the main political concern of many people in this country, a huge number of Canadians who's concerns are not being represented by any political party, he said " We plan to make that the central issue in our Campaign." That was two elections ago and I've seen little evidence of it in either campaign, other than a little mumbling to that effect at the end of each campaign. Dale Lovick, former BC NDP labour minister, aboriginal affairs minister, speaker, etc, said he tried to persuade them to do exaxctly that and make it the major issue , to no avail.<br /> Those who voted for Mel Hurtig's "Vanity " party because of his strong stace on national sovereigny have been unrepresented ever since ,in the house of commons, or the Canadian political debate.<br /> Hopefully some of you can try a little harder to get the message accross to the candidates and the leadership next time around.<br /> Or are they afraid of the CIA sponsored framing of Glen Clark by their RCMP puppets ,for opposing the testing of nuclear weapons in Georgia Strait.<br /> Joe Kennedy said in 1938 "I don't see why Britain is creating all this fuss by opposing Hitler when they have no chance of defeating him. I think the British should just accept the inevitable and surrender to Hitler."<br /> Neville Chamberlain took a similar stance.<br /> Perhaps our political candidates should be asked where we would be today if we had taken their advice. Is that what they want to leave for their children? If so they should get out of the way and let people with huevos to take over defending our sovereigny.<br /> Brent

[Brent Swain]

When Sitting Bull crossed back into the US there were thousands of US troops waiting for him. He was escorted by one mountie.<br /> Recently a friend was followed back to Canada by the US coastguard , all heavily armed with Machine guns and riot gear. The RCMP intercepted him on the Canadian side , two of them. Only one boarded while the other waited in the zodiac. A huge difference.<br /> The fact that yanks are so ashamed of their country that they have to wear someone elses flag on their packs is another huge difference.<br /> Brent

[michou]

[QUOTE BY= Brent Swain] When Sitting Bull crossed back into the US there were thousands of US troops waiting for him. He was escorted by one mountie.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> But if one wants to use any image of the RCMP these days, one must first go through Disney who now owns the license to any image, product etc...of Canada's RCMP, <br /> <br /> On another note, I don't believe this discussion is about Canada's past "glory days". It is about Canada in 2006 and the current trend of economic, social and cultural assimilation into what will soon become known as "Fortress America".

[gaulois]

Touché. Far more effective Mme La Marquise. <br /> J'espère que Samuel prend des notes.

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= michou] <br /> But if one wants to use any image of the RCMP these days, one must first go through Disney who now owns the license to any image, product etc...of Canada's RCMP, <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Yet another meme that refuses to die.<br /> <br /> Disney was given a 5 year contract to handle the marketing and licencing of RCMP products on behalf of the Mounted Police Foundation (Disney never owned the rights, they just acted as an agent on behalf of the RCMP). That agreement has now expired.

[samuel]

<a href="http://www.embassymag.ca/html/index.php?display=story&full_path=/2006/june/14/harper/">PM</a>: "The previous government left immigration in this country in a terrible mess."<br /> <br /> No, really?<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.embassymag.ca/html/index.php?display=story&full_path=/2006/june/14/harper/">PM</a>: "Let me be clear, what we always are trying to do is to run a well- structured, efficient immigration system that rewards those who obey the law and the rules and makes sure that they can adapt and gain full potential in this country."<br /> <br /> Some of us are watching him on that front, with a passion. A few mandatory integration policies and a law to curb fundamentalism would be a good start. Even though Québec already has those in place, as usual Liberal incompetence has left Canada's policies rubbing off on us. When the Imam in Toronto tells the Imam in Montréal he's got a shot at passing Sharia law, the one here gets excited.

[Jacob]

Brent Swain said: "In Canada we ask "What can I do for this person." In the US they often ask "Is he invading my space? Should I shoot him or sue him"? I'm Canadian and, no, I'm not sorry."<br /> <br /> Wish that we could all say that, and live accordingly. The "service motive" has been lost in the US, where even Government agencies litigate each other about many things - see the following situation that, I am confident, would never never happen in Canada:<br /> <br /> http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=53048<br /> <br /> And this attitude also exists among individuals. Maybe we are being influenced in that direction by the media.<br />

[Brother Jonathan]

[QUOTE by Brent Swain]</b> In the US they often ask “Is he invading my space? Should I shoot him or sue him?”<b>[/QUOTE]<br /> <i>Or</i>?<br /> <br /> <b>And</b>! <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'>