[gaulois]

Welcome to vive x10! Here is my top 10 list; americanization is best expressed in terms of following neocon "beliefs": <br /> <br />1) All that really matters is profit and next quarterly report: the $ is allmighty <br />2) What matters next is perception and not reality: the media sits next to the allmighty <br />3) Everything can be bought: media, people, integrity, influence, political parties, justice, health, education, freedom of expression, etc... <br />4) Everything should be owned by someone or a corporate entity: air, water, space, peace, security, etc... <br />5) All markets should be entirely deregulated: all regulations are bad <br />6) There are market and technical fixes to every problems <br />7) All forms of governments should be underfunded and decimated <br />8) All "protected" resources including the environment, the land, and our cultural minorities should be decimated in order to be made more efficient. <br />9) In order to be successful, one must be validated first in the US, sell into their market an eventually distributed through their channels ( and traded in US$ ). <br />10) Agression will always win (with enough money anyhow) <br />

[N Say]

11) foreign ownership; every industry has a ridiculous level of foreign ownership, mostly american

[whelan costen]

We give far too much in raw materials, which means less jobs for Canadians, we ought to be processing more here, such as processing all our beef, no live cattle, lumber also should be processed here, more if not entirely, we are reducing natural gas/oil processing here also. Not sure the ins and outs of that process, but we need to stop giving everything away cheap. We also need to stop selling our public lands, foreign ownership of Canada must be stopped.

[4Canada]

<br />xdeathx10, <br /> <br />If this is for a report, I would contact the www.gc.ca and ask your local MP for information on where to find exactly how much foreign ownership there is in Canada by Americans specifically. Because I agree that is a big one. Because corporations have more control over our governments than we the people that would be a good example. <br /> <br />Also, how many IMPORTED products can you buy in your local stores that aren't made in USA or at least aren't owned by a US corporation? <br /> <br />Our military has been embedded into the US war machine leaving us very little wiggle room for keeping our own sovereignty. <br /> <br />Wouldn't importing of USA goods be a better judge of how Americanized Canada is becoming as opposed to how much we export to the US? We have become very stupid exporters to become so dependant on them if that is the case but I wouldn't suggest that issue would Americanize us as such it would Canadianize the US. (You are what you consume)

[N Say]

check out the following: <br /><B>Intrafirm Trade of Canadian-based Foreign Transnational Companies</B> <br />by Richard A. Cameron, Industry Canada, December 1998 <br />available here: <br /><a href="http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/ineas-aes.nsf/en/ra01707e.html">from Industry Canada</a>

[robert_fisher]

Here's a couple. <br /> <br />12. The company/product/service with the biggest advertising budget is automatically the best product on the market. <br /> <br />13. The politician/party/councilor with the biggest advertising budget is automatically the best politician on the market and usually wins. <br /> <br />14. Toronto.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= robert_fisher] Here's a couple. <br /> <br />12. The company/product/service with the biggest advertising budget is automatically the best product on the market. <br /> <br />13. The politician/party/councilor with the biggest advertising budget is automatically the best politician on the market and usually wins. <br /> <br />14. Toronto.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />Be nice to Toronto, we're much less America-centric than 10 years ago, when the Jays won the "World Series" and Toronto might be getting an "NFL team." <br /> <br />There were huge crowds during team Canada's world cup and Olympic victories.....it surprised me how huge they were in 2002....we are quite patriotic now in our own way, aside from the usual yuppies here and there. <br /> <br />My main complaint about Toronto, other than the fact we are underfunded like crazy, is that we've allowed the housing developers to control us, and have lost many historic buildings. <br /> <br />The air is also starting to suck in the spring and summer, thanks to the suburbs and the Ohio valley.

[robert_fisher]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br />Be nice to Toronto, we're much less America-centric than 10 years ago, when the Jays won the "World Series" and Toronto might be getting an "NFL team."[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Toronto: <br /> <br />I can't stand the yuppies either. <br /> <br /><u>3 breeding grounds of yuppies in Toronto</u> <br /> <br />1. Queen St. <br />2. The Beaches <br />3. Younge and Eligable <br /> <br /><u>3 things I can't stand aesthetically</u> <br /> <br />1. The condo skyline we are growing <br />2. Dundas Square (which is Times Square Jr. now) <br />3. The Starbucks on every corner (American Franchises) <br /> <br /><u>3 things that need to change</u> <br />1. The prices and people going to the ACC for Leafs games, prices = too high, people = too many people going for business meetings. <br />2. The TTC needs to be improved. Vancouver puts us to shame, for one I'd get rid of the street cars, and replace them with electric buses. <br />3. The Blue Jays, no one likes watching baseball. Admit it, the only ones that do are middle aged women looking for asses in tight pants, and faux athlete guys. It's fun to play with some friends, but only America would call it their nations past time! <br /> <br />I really see Toronto as the most American city around today. From the youth culture and attitude to the trendy nightclubs in the 'entertainment' district. Also I think Toronto could have done a better job of spreading out the Ontario Housing. So there are less Regent Parks. Then people wouldn't feel the need to act like thugs and gangsters in the hood, shooting up little girls and good citizens on the TTC. Toronto has a real problem with poverty areas and growing gang violence. Two traits that are may be linked to Americanization. <br /> <br />Also, I hate the Beach...because call me crazy, but I thought you were supposed to be able to swim at the beach? And smog alerts in the summer, everyday. <br /> <br />Don't even get me started on the cities relationship with the Toronto Film industry. When are they going to learn that catering to the American market is what killed our industry in the first place? <br /> <br />And...the most shocking of all...why are there so few Tim Horton's? I thought that's what made us Canadian these days? <br /> <br />Oh, one more...they should ban cars in the core. Or at least start taxing the commuters with a toll so that they can start to pay for some of the damage the people who live here are stuck paying for!

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= 4Canada] <br />xdeathx10, <br /> <br />If this is for a report, I would contact the www.gc.ca and ask your local MP for information on where to find exactly how much foreign ownership there is in Canada by Americans specifically. Because I agree that is a big one. Because corporations have more control over our governments than we the people that would be a good example. <br /> <br />Also, how many IMPORTED products can you buy in your local stores that aren't made in USA or at least aren't owned by a US corporation? <br /> <br />Our military has been embedded into the US war machine leaving us very little wiggle room for keeping our own sovereignty. <br /> <br />Wouldn't importing of USA goods be a better judge of how Americanized Canada is becoming as opposed to how much we export to the US? We have become very stupid exporters to become so dependant on them if that is the case but I wouldn't suggest that issue would Americanize us as such it would Canadianize the US. (You are what you consume)[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />Not when the resources are turned into American jobs, tax revenue and research and development, and sold back to Canada as Ethan Allen furniture and Frigidaire appliances....

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= robert_fisher] [QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br />Be nice to Toronto, we're much less America-centric than 10 years ago, when the Jays won the "World Series" and Toronto might be getting an "NFL team."[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Toronto: <br /> <br />I can't stand the yuppies either. <br /> <br /><u>3 breeding grounds of yuppies in Toronto</u> <br /> <br />1. Queen St. <br />2. The Beaches <br />3. Younge and Eligable <br /> <br /><u>3 things I can't stand aesthetically</u> <br /> <br />1. The condo skyline we are growing <br />2. Dundas Square (which is Times Square Jr. now) <br />3. The Starbucks on every corner (American Franchises) <br /> <br /><u>3 things that need to change</u> <br />1. The prices and people going to the ACC for Leafs games, prices = too high, people = too many people going for business meetings. <br />2. The TTC needs to be improved. Vancouver puts us to shame, for one I'd get rid of the street cars, and replace them with electric buses. <br />3. The Blue Jays, no one likes watching baseball. Admit it, the only ones that do are middle aged women looking for asses in tight pants, and faux athlete guys. It's fun to play with some friends, but only America would call it their nations past time! <br /> <br />I really see Toronto as the most American city around today. From the youth culture and attitude to the trendy nightclubs in the 'entertainment' district. Also I think Toronto could have done a better job of spreading out the Ontario Housing. So there are less Regent Parks. Then people wouldn't feel the need to act like thugs and gangsters in the hood, shooting up little girls and good citizens on the TTC. Toronto has a real problem with poverty areas and growing gang violence. Two traits that are may be linked to Americanization. <br /> <br />Also, I hate the Beach...because call me crazy, but I thought you were supposed to be able to swim at the beach? And smog alerts in the summer, everyday. <br /> <br />Don't even get me started on the cities relationship with the Toronto Film industry. When are they going to learn that catering to the American market is what killed our industry in the first place? <br /> <br />And...the most shocking of all...why are there so few Tim Horton's? I thought that's what made us Canadian these days? <br /> <br />Oh, one more...they should ban cars in the core. Or at least start taxing the commuters with a toll so that they can start to pay for some of the damage the people who live here are stuck paying for![/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />I like many of your ideas.....I would argue a few things: <br /> <br />1 - Yorkville is actually the worst for yuppies--they aren't necessarily American yuppies, many are European yuppies. <br /> <br />2 - Toronto's air is bad, thanks to urban sprawl and the Ohio Valley coal-fired genrating stations with pre-1974 air-quality standards. <br /> <br />3 - Luckily there are many other coffee shops like Second Cup and Timothy's.....at least they have drinks under 3 dollars. <br /> <br />4 - It's funny, gang violence is more reported, but many crime statistics are going down, despite our growing poverty level.....police are getting more funding, despite the fact they are getting many fewer calls than a year ago. <br /> <br />5 - The main problem I see with Dundas Square is it has been taken over by security guards and advertisers.....it's routinely covered with trucks selling products, and people have been banned for a year for drawing chalk on the sqaure. (really) <br /> <br />Why do they need security there at all? To protect the hard surface? There's nothing to steal...... <br /> <br />6 - The Toronto film industry doesn't have to hurt the Canadian inudstry, but it does.....these people are too stupid to see that if they got involved in politics they might have a guaranteed Canadian industry....but most of these Canadian jobs are for crews, and small acting parts.....we had John Tory suck up to Hollywood in his campaign. I guess he wants more traffic jams..... <br /> <br />Tax breaks for Hollywood north? We're even building a huge facility on the waterfront near the docks to shoot action scenes all year.....I hope we aren't paying for this, as cool as it is. <br /> <br />7. Don't worry, many young people like Canada, and want us to be more independent--I think its the baby-boomers and older who are letting us down.

[robert_fisher]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br />I like many of your ideas.....I would argue a few things: <br /> <br />1 - Yorkville is actually the worst for yuppies--they aren't necessarily American yuppies, many are European yuppies.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I am European, by passport only, but my definition of yuppie is usually 'white upper middle class think I am important but aren't consumer driven SUV loving apathetic politics are boring no time for anyone but myself types' and yeah...Yorkville is another example. Their townhall being Yorkdale Shopping Centre. <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br />2 - Toronto's air is bad, thanks to urban sprawl and the Ohio Valley coal-fired genrating stations with pre-1974 air-quality standards.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Nice, God Bless America. Figured as much, but the cars in the 'oh so clogged' downtown aren't much help. <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br />3 - Luckily there are many other coffee shops like Second Cup and Timothy's.....at least they have drinks under 3 dollars.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Second Cup and Timothy's are still Yuppie coffee shops. They are the Canadian equivalent of American style coffee shops. Which is Americanization. <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br />4 - It's funny, gang violence is more reported, but many crime statistics are going down, despite our growing poverty level.....police are getting more funding, despite the fact they are getting many fewer calls than a year ago.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Yeah, maybe because people are less and less confident in the police and more and more afraid of gangs. When I talk about Toronto gangs though I mean it more in a joke way, like kids with black hats, and long black tshirts, roughing you up for TTC tokens. Which there are more and more of these days in the Thug-life, MTV, VH1, culture we live in. <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br />5 - The main problem I see with Dundas Square is it has been taken over by security guards and advertisers.....it's routinely covered with trucks selling products, and people have been banned for a year for drawing chalk on the sqaure. (really) <br /> <br />Why do they need security there at all? To protect the hard surface? There's nothing to steal......[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />I did know that about the chalk. Crazy. And yes, I agree it used to be a public square for 'community theatre and music' but I haven't seen as many plays as I have Playstations and Bell booths. <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br />6 - The Toronto film industry doesn't have to hurt the Canadian inudstry, but it does.....these people are too stupid to see that if they got involved in politics they might have a guaranteed Canadian industry....but most of these Canadian jobs are for crews, and small acting parts.....we had John Tory suck up to Hollywood in his campaign. I guess he wants more traffic jams..... <br /> <br />Tax breaks for Hollywood north? We're even building a huge facility on the waterfront near the docks to shoot action scenes all year.....I hope we aren't paying for this, as cool as it is.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Oh, I know all to well about the Canadian film industry. I love how David Miller and Co, are so interested in getting back the business from Americans that they are willing to throw more money at them. Also, the talks for the studio have been off and on for years...that was my reason for studying broadcasting and film believe it or not. I think William F White was going to pay for it, but then backed out because of the US economy. Tax breaks are not the answer to Americans whining that it is not 'cheap enough!' <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br />7. Don't worry, many young people like Canada, and want us to be more independent--I think its the baby-boomers and older who are letting us down.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />True enough. I have to say though that still about 1 in 10 people knows the issues, and even that 1 is a person like me who the more they know, the less they understand! <br /> <br />There are things I love about TO as well, don't get me wrong, it's just too bad that the things I can't stand get in the way of the things I love. <br /> <br />

[Perturbed]

I like many of your ideas.....I would argue a few things: <br /> <br />1 - Yorkville is actually the worst for yuppies--they aren't necessarily American yuppies, many are European yuppies. <br /> <br />I am European, by passport only, but my definition of yuppie is usually 'white upper middle class think I am important but aren't consumer driven SUV loving apathetic politics are boring no time for anyone but myself types' and yeah...Yorkville is another example. Their townhall being Yorkdale Shopping Centre. <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] <br /> <br />I didn't mean European origin, I meant "German cars must be good" kind of people. You know, the airheads who try to buy "Hardwood floors from Europe, because they are the finest quality." Airheads. <br /> <br />[QUOTE]2 - Toronto's air is bad, thanks to urban sprawl and the Ohio Valley coal-fired genrating stations with pre-1974 air-quality standards. <br /> <br />Nice, God Bless America. Figured as much, but the cars in the 'oh so clogged' downtown aren't much help.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Yeah, because the 100 billion that Paul Martin could've used to build transit throughtout our entire country ten goddam times, it was that much money--he spent it on corporate tax cuts. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> <br /> <br />[QUOTE] <br />3 - Luckily there are many other coffee shops like Second Cup and Timothy's.....at least they have drinks under 3 dollars. <br /> <br />Second Cup and Timothy's are still Yuppie coffee shops. They are the Canadian equivalent of American style coffee shops. Which is Americanization.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />At least Second Cup allows you to spend 1.50 for a drink if you want to, instead of 3.50.....I mean, there aren't many things to do cheaply in this city--it's nuce to be able to talk to someone without spending 40 bucks for dinner, but point taken. <br /> <br />As your European, is there any European equivalent? Is the coffee-shop culture a purely American phenomena? It would just surprise me, that's all. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />[QUOTE]4 - It's funny, gang violence is more reported, but many crime statistics are going down, despite our growing poverty level.....police are getting more funding, despite the fact they are getting many fewer calls than a year ago. <br /> <br />Yeah, maybe because people are less and less confident in the police and more and more afraid of gangs. When I talk about Toronto gangs though I mean it more in a joke way, like kids with black hats, and long black tshirts, roughing you up for TTC tokens. Which there are more and more of these days in the Thug-life, MTV, VH1, culture we live in.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Maybe.....I do agree that the rap-crap is annoying. Any creativity is gone from rap--years ago. <br /> <br /> <br />[QUOTE]5 - The main problem I see with Dundas Square is it has been taken over by security guards and advertisers.....it's routinely covered with trucks selling products, and people have been banned for a year for drawing chalk on the sqaure. (really) <br /> <br />Why do they need security there at all? To protect the hard surface? There's nothing to steal...... <br /> <br />I did know that about the chalk. Crazy. And yes, I agree it used to be a public square for 'community theatre and music' but I haven't seen as many plays as I have Playstations and Bell booths.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />It's our own square, but it needs help. <br /> <br /> <br />[QUOTE]6 - The Toronto film industry doesn't have to hurt the Canadian inudstry, but it does.....these people are too stupid to see that if they got involved in politics they might have a guaranteed Canadian industry....but most of these Canadian jobs are for crews, and small acting parts.....we had John Tory suck up to Hollywood in his campaign. I guess he wants more traffic jams..... <br /> <br />Tax breaks for Hollywood north? We're even building a huge facility on the waterfront near the docks to shoot action scenes all year.....I hope we aren't paying for this, as cool as it is.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Oh, I know all to well about the Canadian film industry. I love how David Miller and Co, are so interested in getting back the business from Americans that they are willing to throw more money at them. Also, the talks for the studio have been off and on for years...that was my reason for studying broadcasting and film believe it or not. I think William F White was going to pay for it, but then backed out because of the US economy. Tax breaks are not the answer to Americans whining that it is not 'cheap enough![/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />I'm angrier at David Miller for allowing a secret second vote to reapprove the Union Station 100-year lease giveaway (for nothing) to a private company behind the scenes. Larry Tanenbaum must have pulled a few strings. The island airport made no business sense...I should've known Miller would disappoint, but regarding the film industries, they technically could co-exist, but the thinking to creat our own film industry just isn't there. <br /> <br /> <br />[QUOTE]7. Don't worry, many young people like Canada, and want us to be more independent--I think its the baby-boomers and older who are letting us down. <br /> <br />True enough. I have to say though that still about 1 in 10 people knows the issues, and even that 1 is a person like me who the more they know, the less they understand! <br /> <br />There are things I love about TO as well, don't get me wrong, it's just too bad that the things I can't stand get in the way of the things I love.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />That's a problem I face as well. I can't decide if most people are stupid or uninformed, apathetic or disillusioned. People have so many different talents and character traits that it's impossible to generalize, which makes life all the more depressing. <br /> <br />I'd also debate the relative merits of being able to walk down the street in Toronto without hearing English or seeing anyone from the western world, but that would be a long debate.

[lesouris]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed] That's a problem I face as well. I can't decide if most people are stupid or uninformed, apathetic or disillusioned. People have so many different talents and character traits that it's impossible to generalize, which makes life all the more depressing.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />It's no wonder why people are disillusioned and uninformed when it comes to politics really, I mean think about our school system. There are only (in Ontario at least) three years of Canadian history that go through our past so quickly there isn't enough time to teach students how bad things can get when no one gets involved. And then there's only 1/2 of a semester for civics, at the end of which most people still don't get the Queen is the Queen of Canada and not exclusively of Britain. Plus we're always being told how foolproof our system is when it really isn't. <br /> <br />I love Toronto, and I hate what our governments have done to it. They have basically forced it to Americanize. Where the hell is this new deal for cities I've heard so much about? Toronto proper makes up ten per cent of the population of Canada, but we don't really matter I guess, because we're filled with Liberal-safe seats. Well maybe next election we'll see a more repeats of the Toronto-Danforth conversion to the NDP. <br /> <br />I think that Toronto is starting to go down the right path by putting in that wind turbine and having one of the highest recycling rated in North America, and we're supposed to get money for the TTC soon, but I dunno about that. I also hear David Miller has gotten a bunch of artists and architects together in a plan to revamp Toronto and give it a distinctive feel. And you have to admit that having Miller is way better than having Lastman. I also think that if this beautification he speaks of becomes a reality, Torontonians will be prouder of their city and want to stand up for it. <br /> <br />We really have to invest in affordable housing though, because frankly, it's an embarassment. It pisses me off that all the provincial government has to do is raise the minimum wage to the cost of living and half the homeless (the working homeless) would be off the streets. <br /> <br />Toronto really is a good city (if not a little bit ugly in some places - i.e. the Gardiner). We have so much potential, but we're suffering from Canadian Syndrome (you know, when you talk about making improvements a lot and then never do anything). Well at least our tourists are coming back after, even in greater numbers than in pre-9/11 days.

[robert_fisher]

[QUOTE BY= lesouris] <br />I think that Toronto is starting to go down the right path by putting in that wind turbine...And you have to admit that having Miller is way better than having Lastman.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />For sure Miller is better. I will admit he is the new guy and I should give him a fighting chance. As for the turbine, I think that it is kind of a joke. One turbine is hardly a step in the right direction, it is more like a tip-toe in the right direction. For a city of our size we would need a lot more than the one. <br /> <br />[QUOTE BY= lesouris] <br />We really have to invest in affordable housing though, because frankly, it's an embarassment. <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Ontario housing does need change. For one, I think creating communities of Ontario Housing is a mistake. They promote poverty, they do not help anyone by forcing them to live in a neglected community. People should get gov't discounts on already standing structures, until they can get back on their feet. Mixed communities are the answer. <br /> <br />Also I think you shouldn't be able to own a car and live in Ontario Housing. How are people in bad financial situations able to afford a vehicle and an apartment in downtown Toronto when not many other people can? Not to mention the fact that downtown a car is completely not needed. Parking lots in Ontario Housing, boggles the mind.

[gaulois]

We also seem to be paying a lot more attention to the US than to Canada. I have recently noticed increased US related coverage and discussions on Vive. I was hoping that this would fade away after the US elections but has it?