[robert_fisher]

[QUOTE BY= gaulois] We also seem to be paying a lot more attention to the US than to Canada. I have recently noticed increased US related coverage and discussions on Vive. I was hoping that this would fade away after the US elections but has it?[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Name one problem we have protecting Canadian Sovereignty that is not American in origin? I think this coverage and discussion is more than justified.

[gaulois]

[QUOTE BY= robert_fisher] <br />Name one problem we have protecting Canadian Sovereignty that is not American in origin? I think this coverage and discussion is more than justified.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Sovereingty first runs in your head. The Quebec sovereignists did not get to where they are today by constantly bashing the "ruler" (although I suppose they did plenty of it). They were able to put a political party together, fire up people, get the party elected, do interim governments, bring major democratic reforms, etc... As a result of these actions, Quebec is a lot more sovereign from Canada today than it would have been if they had kept bashing. <br /> <br />Blaming the ruler is very easy, but doing something about it is much more challenging. Perhaps Canada is not for sale, but Canadians are the ones selling the country. Americans, Asians, Europeans or whoever are only happy to buy when they see a good thing.

[robert_fisher]

I can't agree with you. <br /> <br />Canada is a nation. A sovereign nation. So I don't need to have it 'run in my head' because to me there never was a question it wasn't. <br /> <br />Using Quebec as an example of sovereignty is a slap in the face as far as I am concerned. First of all as of right now the Quebec Sovereignty movement is sort of unsuccessful.** Second, the Quebec Sovereignty movement is a threat to Canadian Sovereignty, not an example for it!! <br /> <br />I will continue with my methods thank you. Why? At least then people will open their eyes to what is going on in our cross border relationship. Then maybe people will realise "hey this relationship hurts us more than helps us." Then maybe, just maybe we will start to elect politicians that don't have redwhiteandblue spoons in their mouths and start to elect the ones that will make a difference in the protection of Canadian Sovereignty. <br /> <br />And thus making it impossible for Canadians that are selling us out to continue. <br /> <br /> <br />** - Let's remember the definition of sovereignty: <br /> <br /> 1. Supremacy of authority or rule as exercised by a sovereign or sovereign state. <br /> 2. Royal rank, authority, or power. <br /> 3. Complete independence and self-government. <br /> 4. A territory existing as an independent state. <br />

[gaulois]

Robert: put aside the political connotations of Quebec (or Canada) sovereignty for a moment and consider sovereignty in People's terms, which is really what should matter. For instance, who in between the ROC and Quebec is most self-reliant in the following matters: <br />- financial institutions <br />- power generation <br />- media, movie, books, entertainment <br />- foreign ownership of land and properties <br />- foreign ownership of industries <br />- foreign ownership of public infrastructures <br />- democratic reform (e.g. Proportional Representation, political parties financing, etc...) <br /> <br />I would argue that self-reliance has increased in these areas in Quebec while it has decreased in Canada over the last 40 years. I think the Quebec sovereignist movement deserves some credits for this, even if they have never gained actual political sovereignty and probably never will. I don't think it would be fair either for Canada to blame Quebec for the erosion of Canadian sovereignty. <br /> <br />As Gandhi said, what matters is not the end goal but taking the steps toward the end-goal. Don't take me wrong; I remain a committed federalist but see the value that Quebec sovereignty has brought to Canada. I have also seen what complacency can do to a country as lucky as ours. Seems to make sense that Canadian sovereignists could learn a few things from Quebec sovereignists. But perhaps I am biased? I will remind you I consider myself a western canadian and have spent more than half of my life in the ROC. <br /> <br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= gaulois] Robert: put aside the political connotations of Quebec (or Canada) sovereignty for a moment and consider sovereignty in People's terms, which is really what should matter. For instance, who in between the ROC and Quebec is most self-reliant in the following matters: <br />- financial institutions <br />- power generation <br />- media, movie, books, entertainment <br />- foreign ownership of land and properties <br />- foreign ownership of industries <br />- foreign ownership of public infrastructures <br />- democratic reform (e.g. Proportional Representation, political parties financing, etc...) <br /> <br />I would argue that self-reliance has increased in these areas in Quebec while it has decreased in Canada over the last 40 years. I think the Quebec sovereignist movement deserves some credits for this, even if they have never gained actual political sovereignty and probably never will. I don't think it would be fair either for Canada to blame Quebec for the erosion of Canadian sovereignty. <br /> <br />As Gandhi said, what matters is not the end goal but taking the steps toward the end-goal. Don't take me wrong; I remain a committed federalist but see the value that Quebec sovereignty has brought to Canada. I have also seen what complacency can do to a country as lucky as ours. Seems to make sense that Canadian sovereignists could learn a few things from Quebec sovereignists. But perhaps I am biased? I will remind you I consider myself a western canadian and have spent more than half of my life in the ROC. <br /> <br /> [/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />Good points......I'm noy sure how demoratic the sovereignty movement was, but someone had to have instigated it.

[Guest]

The Police State is another example the Americanization of Canada. <br /> <br />The police activly participate in criminal activity too there own ecomonic benefit. <br /> <br />While arresting and imprisoning people for minor social disobediance. <br /> <br />A classic example is the recent 2 years house arrest in alberta for murdering an unarmed individual in the Cells in Alberta. <br /> <br />Now in the Okanagan, they deliberatly released a guy from Kamloops jail , so the media in the Okanagan had <br />a issue to overload the media with, while refraining to inform the citizens of the Pincher Creek incident. <br /> <br />The refusal of the Senate of Canada to act on the Perjury of the Commisioneer of the RCMP, regarding the DNA data bank is indicitive of the Americanization of the Canadain Police State. <br /> <br />Dennis Baker <br /> <br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= dbaker] The Police State is another example the Americanization of Canada. <br /> <br />The police activly participate in criminal activity too there own ecomonic benefit. <br /> <br />While arresting and imprisoning people for minor social disobediance. <br /> <br />A classic example is the recent 2 years house arrest in alberta for murdering an unarmed individual in the Cells in Alberta. <br /> <br />Now in the Okanagan, they deliberatly released a guy from Kamloops jail , so the media in the Okanagan had <br />a issue to overload the media with, while refraining to inform the citizens of the Pincher Creek incident. <br /> <br />The refusal of the Senate of Canada to act on the Perjury of the Commisioneer of the RCMP, regarding the DNA data bank is indicitive of the Americanization of the Canadain Police State. <br /> <br />Dennis Baker <br /> <br /> [/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />Some would say that our own beloved RCMP had issues way back in the North West Mounted Police days.....I wasn't around then, so who knows.

[Brent Swain]

Simple solutions
Vote for whoever the rich campaign hardest against( the NDP). Don't vote for the richest campaign , vote against it. People in Sakatchewan did that for decades, and if they hadn't we'd have US style health care.
Speak your mind , especially if it goes against the programming the rich try to give us. Question everything they try to promote.Pick holes in it.
Don't buy what you can do without. Buy used if you need anything.Check out used sources for everything first, then local next.Build what you can yourself.Learn how to do more yourself .Enjoy the free time it gives you.
Learn to do with less. Keep working on it. Make it a lifetime hobby.
Brent

[mtbr]

Were you one of those peaceniks who was protesting in the House of Commons yesterday?

[Brent Swain]

Shut the fuck up, you say? Try it your self. Practise what you preach , yank.
No I've never been to Ottawa. I hear it's so cold there that the bureaucrats go around with their hands in their own pockets( hard to imagine)
Brent

[Toro]

robert_fisher robert_fisher:

14. Toronto.

Yeah, TO wishes...

[Toro]

Trudeau did more to Americanize Canada than most realize. His creation of the Charter shifted power away from the democratically elected body to the courts, moving governance away from the UK model and more to the US model.

[Brent Swain]

Trudeau gave us the metric system to move us closer to Europe and away from the US. Without it we would be much closer to the US. Unfortunately his foreign investment review agency should have been a foreign investment diversification agency, attempting to further diversify our foreign ownership.
I've heard that the EU is proposing a free trade agreement with Canada , the US and Mexico, which would allow us to reduce our dependency on the US as a trading partner.

[Keemo]

The US is one of only 3 nations left that are not officially metric. Makes trading with them a pain. At least here on the west coast, we have Asia handy to trade with as an alternative. That not withstanding, we really need to reduce our trade with the US, and reduce our foreign ownership. We have an abundance of resources, and it is imperative that WE control them, not a foreigner or an off-shore multinational.

As for baby boomers not caring about Americanization, I for one am totally against it, and should US troops dare invade Canada, this old fart would be in the hills with a high powered rifle, sniping Yanks.

[kenmore]

they have their hands in their pockets playing pocket pool not cause its cold ;:)